RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (Full Version)

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Barelily -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/7/2008 11:33:01 PM)

ResidentSadist only this part of my post was meant for you
quote:

Theres a much shorter word for that [;)]


My apologizes, I should have separated them better *my brain low on caffeine is not a pretty sight*. It was a general response to the Op. I got what you were saying in your original post and I agree.
You heard Yogie was shot right? Tragic really..




stella41b -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/7/2008 11:33:50 PM)

I look for Irish music because I have a preference for lateral thinking.




babygirlkitten -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/7/2008 11:36:08 PM)

I also find it a need that the person I'm with, whether it be a vanilla relationship, kink, or otherwise, absolutely must match me in intelligence. I have a difficult time connecting with someone that I can't have a stimulating conversation with. As far as sexual and relationship intelligence, while I don't mind if somoene is less experienced than I sexually (some things can be easily learned in that respect), I have trouble fostering a relationship with someone who is still learning relationship basics that I've already worked through.




moonvine -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/7/2008 11:50:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

Ha!  I love living alone soooo much, I could never see myself living with another person, and I've never even been married.  They could, however, live next door, that would be very convenient. 



'Funny how people see the world. To me, there's no use in working your knackers off when there's no one to share it with. Living alone has its benefits, of course, but they are vastly outweighed by the benefits of a committed relationship. Perhaps the difference in outlook is a matter of whether or not a person has had a few too many kickings. The trick for me is to find someone who shares my interests, and, yes, she has to have a certain amount of intelligence because I thrive on debate; reading books is not enough for me.


I have my critters to share it with (and can bring more critters into the house whenever I want without anyone saying no).  No one's ever drank the last of the milk, no one's ever moved my stuff when I come home (unless the cats drag it off), there's never any argument about what to watch on TV, I can paint my walls any color I want, I can hang anything I want on them, I get to spend my money however I want...bliss, just bliss:)




NorthernGent -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 1:59:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

bliss, just bliss:)



'You sure about that?  




JustDarkness -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 2:52:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: babygirlkitten

I also find it a need that the person I'm with, whether it be a vanilla relationship, kink, or otherwise, absolutely must match me in intelligence. I


ISn't that kind of intelligence also emotion influenced?
I mean... how do you know he has the same intellect...it is more a feeling you have with him..not?




scarlethiney -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 6:31:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Oh that old chestnut about intelligence and education, two very highly overrated concepts.  My ex grew up in a world of ivory towers, the middle of Berkeley with a mother who is a well known and published poet and a father who was at the top of his field as well, with family of name and note all around.  I could go on but I don't wish to out her.

Prior to meeting her I always tended to feel more educated/worldly/well read than most of my peers.  I used to joke that I felt like a kid from the provinces around them.  However, they all adored me because I brought fresh perspectives, a keen insight, and a life very well and colorfully lived.  Not bad for a kid who dropped out of high school.  I even got approval from one of the aunts who tended to look down her nose at most people.

University educations do not make people interesting, enjoyable, or sadly, even literate.  Most of it is glorified vocational education.  I say that while attending one of California's better universities.  Intelligence, or at least IQ is similarly overrated and mine falls in the top 98%.  My ex, who is far smarter and vastly better educated and bred adored me because I made her feel safe, I made her feel desired, and we could talk about any subject except music.  Even art was something we could talk about despite my relative ignorance and the fact she had made a living as an artist.

I think more importantly than any of this is what you seek in a mate.  If you want to come home and discuss French literature or the latest in genetic advances over dinner, you better pick an academic or a scientist.  If you want to find someone which whom you can enjoy life outside of a single subject, there are far more important things to select for than intelligence.


Perfect said! Thanks Michael.

scarlet




LydiaSciKitten -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 7:45:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: LydiaSciKitten

Therefore, my conclusion is that one can have some casual play with anyone, and even a less serious relationship does not require intellectual domination. But, in my opinion, anything nearing love or TPE in D/s can be fully enjoyed only if the submissive can feel the joy of being intellectually Dominated as well as the rest. Or else the use of the submissive by the Dominant will include actual mental manipulation, but a cheap copy of it, and to me the ability to, up to a point, mentally control is essential for a true relationship.


Actually... your education should tell you that given the extremely small sample you are working with, your conclusion should be that YOU are unable to have a TPE without being mentally overpowered by your dominant. To make a broader statement you need a larger sample.

I personally have no need for being mentally overpowered. Possibly because it's never happened and possibly because I'd much rather have a mental give and take. I don't need someone to be smarter than me to obey them, I just don't feel "Haha, I'm smarter I'm going to run circles around you because I can."


I guess you are right. I am sorry for having generalised beyond myself without the information required to do so. I just find that I, and some other people I know, have a very hard time not taking advantage of a gap in intellect, and taking advantage of your Dom in anyway, to please yourself, is just disgusting. I admire people who can do so, but resist the temptation, and therefore can engage in proper D/s without mentally topping from the bottom even a little bit.
On the other hand many posts in this thread seem to point to the fact that many agree with my point of view, and many submissives find greater fulfillment in having a Dominant that is, at the very least, their intellectual equal.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 8:32:51 AM)

I think it tends to be a symptom that newbies get into this and can't relax and be secure in the dynamic yet.  There are so many dorks and fakes, they are usually running away from something, they are clueless and make all the mistakes, and even though they intellectually know this is good for them, they can't just relax and BE in the dynamic that works for them.

So they create a necessary system of games/manipulations/prowess which "forces" them to get into that place they can't yet go into on their own. 

I'm not saying leash pulls are bad or always a sign of insecurity, just that when people talk about "needing a stronger person" it usually is because they aren't internally inspired and relaxed.




LydiaSciKitten -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 9:05:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I'm not saying leash pulls are bad or always a sign of insecurity, just that when people talk about "needing a stronger person" it usually is because they aren't internally inspired and relaxed.


You are probably right, but it is very harsh to call everyone that feels the need to have a stronger person than will put them right back into place a clueless newbie or an insecure problem-well.

There's people who just deeply enjoy bathing in the intoxicating power of the one they love.




Padriag -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 9:12:35 AM)

It occurs to me that how much intelligence, formal education, etc does or does not matter is a matter of personal priorities... and those develop for a variety of reasons, which cannot be boiled down to any one or even a few simplistic reasons.  People value things for a variety of reasons, drawn out of what personal experience has taught them to value.  What seems clear is that a high IQ and/or a formal education matters to some, but not to others.  I also suspect the reasons why it does or doesn't is only important to those individual relationships.  Just an observation.




StrongSpirit -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 9:21:17 AM)

I never advise people to lower their standards.  I do tell people to upgrade their standards.

Mainly because I negate the basis premise of the original thread poster:

There are PLENTY of intelligent people, even if you are in the top 1 hundred of one percent.

Particularly in the scene.  I have found that less intelligent people are less likely to understand their own sexual needs and stay out of the scene.  For example, a less intelligent man may think "I want a wife that promises to love honor and obey, not a &*^@ feminist.  No I am not kinky, what makes you think that?" 

-------------------
I have however found that many people with rather high standards for things like Ambition (i.e. wealth), Education, Political viewpoints, confidence, communication, etc. . tend to dismiss people that don't satisfy these other standards as 'stupid' even if the other person is in fact smarter than they are.

I think education is a great example.  The original poster seemed to imply that intelligence included education.  They are entirely DIFFERENT things.   Leonardo De Vinci was not educated by any modern standard.  But was intelligent.  I know quite a few doctorates that are NOT intelligent, no matter what school they went to. 




Jeptha -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 9:41:04 AM)

quote:

But, in my opinion, anything nearing love or TPE in D/s can be fully enjoyed only if the submissive can feel the joy of being intellectually Dominated as well as the rest. Or else the use of the submissive by the Dominant will include actual mental manipulation, but a cheap copy of it, and to me the ability to, up to a point, mentally control is essential for a true relationship.



I think it is a matter of compatibility, chiefly; it's hard to say how the pieces (meaning the various "intelligences") will all fit together, and what kind of picture they will make, and whether or not that will be pleasing. Usually if we've seen fit to move forward there will be something worthwhile about the new creation to consider. The chosen relationship itself is a new learning venue in almost any case.

My partners almost always have more "emotional intelligence" then I do.
They are introspective and usually have good insight provisionally (meaning they are aware enough to try not to make assumptions or leap to conclusions without testing their theories) into others.

I think I require that kind of introspection and the ability to share it (good communication skills.) If my partner shares insights with me about my own behavior, or about the relationship dynamic, I consider that valuable feedback, not "topping from the bottom." It's all in what you do with the information, perhaps?

Also nice and probably requisite is a sense of the ironic that realizes at bottom that no matter how smart we think we are, unless it lends a real quality to our lives (and joy is the most common yardstick applied in this regard, but it can also be a certain kind of intensity, or pleasure or amusement), then all it amounts to is theory, anyway.




moonvine -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 1:16:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

bliss, just bliss:)



'You sure about that?  


100%, why?




babygirlkitten -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 2:03:17 PM)

quote:

Isn't that kind of intelligence also emotion influenced?
I mean... how do you know he has the same intellect...it is more a feeling you have with him..not?


I don't think so. I think you can figure out with a few conversations, give or take a few people who have difficulty articulating at times, how intelligent someone is.




JustDarkness -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 2:16:10 PM)

perhaps that is true (often it is).
Is some one intellegent in general..or can a person be intelligent on certain subjects?
I know intellegent people...when I talk about certain things...but they can look clumsy when I talk about other things...still they docters and architects.
An impression can be very wrong by times.




StrtbkNamdDesire -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 2:27:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

perhaps that is true (often it is).
Is some one intellegent in general..or can a person be intelligent on certain subjects?
I know intellegent people...when I talk about certain things...but they can look clumsy when I talk about other things...still they docters and architects.
An impression can be very wrong by times.


A person can be learned or skilled in a certain area but it doesn't give them credibility to speak on anything else. Isn't there a logical fallacy that speaks to this? Like, celebrity endorsements for things completely outside one's realm of expertise and whatnot? :)




Jeptha -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 7:32:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
...I have learned in my many years that intellect does not always equate to pervyness and/or sensuality. However, it nice to know that a girl with average intellect can be a sensual and sexual genius. God bless all you sexy perverts.

I believe that there's such a thing as sexual compatibility.
It wouldn't be a stretch for me to think of that as one of the many types of intelligence.




RainydayNE -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/8/2008 9:16:57 PM)

"intelligence" kinda...
well i think it's something that will arise in all sorts of facets of life, like you mentioned in relationship, sexual, psychological, or whatever terms
because people who are "smart" are usually curious and want to "know."
my Dom absolutely facinates me sometimes and i think that's necessary? like... to appreciate each other for things beyond the obvious "that's my wonderful (insert title here)" =p
he researches everything, and finds his own answers to all of his questions, and conversations with him always end up somewhere fantastic =p

and... i think it just boils down to simply needing someone to talk to. if you have certain kinds of things on your mind, and the person you're with doesn't understand you, then it just isn't going to work and you'll feel isolated. but if they do, then that takes things to a pretty nice level, i think. :)

so i guess you have to have some similar level of intelligence. if for nothing more than the ability to talk to and understand each other.




Jeptha -> RE: smarts and domliness/subliness (11/9/2008 10:01:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka
3. I don't in the least conflate education with intelligence, as I said directly in the OP. I describe myself as "over-educated" largely because it's something I've found others get weirded out about, and I'm attempting to give them the chance to opt out quickly. Perhaps I need to rethink this, if it causes reactions like yours.

It is kind of a loaded phrase.
"Over educated."
What exactly are you claiming there?

As far as my own education and training go, I'm a "jack of all trades, master of none" sort.
Thus, I've had partners (like, ...all of them, maybe?) who were smarter than myself in the traditional notions of the word, but I don't feel that it created imbalance or awkwardness in the relationship. One ex was a professional librarian, and she delighted in doing research on things we were interested in, or for me personally. We both enjoyed it. I think she enjoyed using her skills to present something that was pleasing to me.

On another point; you can have a conversation with most experts by asking "who, what, where and especially "why" questions, and offering a little positive feedback once in a while. If they have a passion for their subject (and an interest in you, I guess I should add) they will be happy to explain it; or at least explain it's significance to them. Nothing teaches so well as having the opportunity to teach.
If you can't explain it to a lay person using whatever metaphor or analogies might be necessary, then you might not have as good a grasp of your subject as you think you do. Your "intellectuality" might be a bit of a brittle veneer.







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