MarcusofAr
Posts: 532
Joined: 3/12/2008
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Hi, Tiger!
I know I said I was out, but we cross-posted. After this, I'll head back to Gorean territory, hopefully having done a bit of good in the "addressing misconceptions" department.
Of course, these are just my opinions. As always.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TigerNINTails
In any case, on the point that it's not misongynistic, I would say the evidence of it is largely it's attitude that other than for sexual service, the woman is largely considered nothing. That they treat men harsher as slaves is simply a reflection of mysoginy in "shame for the failure as a man" sorta thing.
On the contrary-- they are a slave-owning society which accepts the concept that a human being can be legally owned as property. Legal chattel slavery, as practiced upon Gor, is ruthless with either gender. The fact that female slaves are considered far more valuable, and are treated much better than, male slaves, is simply a reflection of that system. Males are harder to contain and subdue, and aren't as valuable a commodity as are female slaves.
The above viewpoint, balanced or not, was the prevailing attitude throughout almost all slave-holding societies in Earth's history. That's not a particularly Gorean rub.
As far as "respect" goes-- part of the process which compels and inspires the Gorean kajira to experience the fullness of her slavery, from a psychological standpoint, is the very firmness with which her Master treats her. Norman explains how love factors into all of this, repeatedly.
Just as a TPE Master can both love his slave and treat her (or him) with great severity, so, too, do Gorean Masters with their own property. It's no more "harsh" or "cruel" because it takes place on another (fictional, even) planet. It is what it is-- what it needs to be, in order for the slaves to function according to their submitted, actualized inner nature.
Too, there are exceptions. But I won't bore you further.
My point was NOT that Gor was misandrist. My point was that it wasn't particularly "misogynistic"-- in the sense that, Gorean men, though harsh and sometimes cruel, don't hate women. Quite the opposite. I could quote you chapter and verse, pages and pages, wherein Norman says the exact opposite, in fact.
When one looks at the power and respect wielded by Gorean Free Women in that society, one sees that women were viewed by Gorean men as being quite precious-- whether compelled to treat them as near-valueless slaves so they could best express their nature, or not. Though, granted, the haughty Gorean Free Women in Norman's books often come off as being particularly bitchy.
Nor are all women-- or even most women on Gor-- slaves at all. But that's a whole other conversation.
Basically, it's all in the books for anyone who cares to look closely. I always thought that the BDSM crowd would be more likely to accept the politically incorrect elements described in Norman's Gorean society for what they were, and not leap to hasty conclusions. Anne Rice's Beauty books were no worse, in truth. In fact, I suspect that to be the case. It's not the books most BDSMers have a problem with-- it's the "Goreans" themselves.
I suppose too much damage was done by instances of ill-informed, self-proclaimed, chest-pounding so-called Gorean Uber Masters, showing up and casting insults in all directions, and incidents of that ilk. It's hard to tell the good ones from the bad ones, perhaps.
Of course-- no one ever thinks they are the bad ones, on either side of any line. So there's that. :)
Thanks for listening.
I wish you well!
_Marcus_
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RE: The differance between lifestyles - 
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