RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM!

RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (Full Version)

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toledotpeslave -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/16/2008 4:56:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy The ripple effect's hitting up in NW Ohio already. My cuz works at Cooper Tire, and is being "almost laid off" for the whole month of December. Cooper's going to work him 2 hours a day, so he won't be eligible for unemployment benefits. The only good thing is that he's got a lot of savings. thornhappy NW Ohio is pretty much in the same position as SE Michigan. I predict a lot of people will be leaving the area in the next few years.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/16/2008 5:03:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus <<And by the way....Seattle is rather spectacular this time of year[8D] ) >> Dude. Get me a job, and I will move into a tent in your backyard. Might even wash your car... (I actually have a vastly more comfortable place than my backyard in mind [:D] )

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/16/2008 5:14:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus <<And by the way....Seattle is rather spectacular this time of year[8D] ) >> Dude. Get me a job, and I will move into a tent in your backyard. Might even wash your car... (I actually have a vastly more comfortable place than my backyard in mind [:D] ) TEASE. MONSTER. (waiting for plane ticket)

MzMia -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/16/2008 5:43:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: winterlight I had a Chevy Nova one time. I really loved that car. It was part Toyota/Chevy. Yes, you could see the word Toyota on some areas of my car. It was built here in America. Wish they had made more cars like that. It was the same car as a Toyota (forgot the name) the only difference was the radio was in a different spot. I hated to lose that car but i had trouble finding parts for it at the different car wreck places. It was still running good except for noise under the hood. It was over ten years old when i got rid of it. My next car was a Honda Civic. It was what i could afford. It is now 5 years old and still running well. My favorite American car? It was a (Lee Iacocca) Valiant. God, I loved that car. Wish they still made it. It was the best car ever made in my opinion. I had owned a Chevy Chevette which later was known as one of the worse cars ever made and i can say that IS exactly TRUE. They have to come with some way to get the buying public away from the foreign cars and into American cars. How they will do it i do not know. Should we bail them out? I don't know the economic implications if we do. They have to come up with greener cars thats for sure. I have to wonder if our American car companies fail how much the CEO's are gonna get like the others before them. That is just totally screwed up in my own humble opinion. I feel bad for the people that lose their jobs, have families to feed, mortgages etc. These turkeys live a lavish lifestyle and due to bad decisions get MILLIONS of dollars as a goodbye present. Something is definitely wrong with the system. I certainly agree with you winterlight. [:)] I think one viable solution is to bail out Detroit, BUT to closely watch and regulate how they use the money. They need to be restructured from the floor up, and as has been suggested they "follow, study, and learn" from of the more successful auto industries.

Lorr47 -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/16/2008 6:01:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy [ I think I have an old couch in the basement- that would help them out. This summer a couple in Bay City, Michigan went to the park to see a free play. They had been trying to figure a way to save their property and way of life. They canceled their bankrutcy as being an exercise in futility. They returned home and went upstairs where the the wife laid down on the bed and her husband of many years stabbed her to death. He then started the house (in forclosure) on fire. He then took a butcher knife in his right hand and plunged it into his heart. I have often wondered how deep the despair would have to be to lay down and wait to be stabbed to death. Or, how deep the despair to stab your mate of many years to death. Or ,have the mind set to take a butcher knife and plunge it through your heart. The utter despair. The utter darkness. Of course Pahunkboy you are not your brothers' keeper. You are a certifiable ass. Pennsyvania is next.

MzMia -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/16/2008 6:17:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy [ I think I have an old couch in the basement- that would help them out. This summer a couple in Bay City, Michigan went to the park to see a free play. They had been trying to figure a way to save their property and way of life. They canceled their bankrutcy as being an exercise in futility. They returned home and went upstairs where the the wife laid down on the bed and her husband of many years stabbed her to death. He then started the house (in forclosure) on fire. He then took a butcher knife in his right hand and plunged it into his heart. I have often wondered how deep the despair would have to be to lay down and wait to be stabbed to death. Or, how deep the despair to stab your mate of many years to death. Or ,have the mind set to take a butcher knife and plunge it through your heart. The utter despair. The utter darkness. Of course Pahunkboy you are not your brothers' keeper. You are a certifiable ass. Pennsyvania is next. Sad story Lorr, thank you for sharing. There are many that are really just "clueless". Think about it this way, even in the middle of the last Depression, I am sure there were some that felt, "things are not really that bad." Don't worry about those that "don't see", and chat with us that do.

MissSCD -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/16/2008 7:15:19 PM)
*I love a chevy. It is tradition in my family to own one. My father would roll over in his grave if he knew that Toyotas were racing in Nascar. I am getting used to it.* The sad thing is that General Motors missed the boat. When gas prices were twice as much as they are now, they did not develop automobiles that were efficent and what the consumer needed. They continued to stock pile SUVs. President Elect Obama is in favor of helping the auto industry. It may go through especially if he is backing it. Overall, I say let the company adjust and meet the needs of their customers. They are way off track. *Regards, MissSCD*

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/16/2008 8:32:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy [ I think I have an old couch in the basement- that would help them out. This summer a couple in Bay City, Michigan went to the park to see a free play. They had been trying to figure a way to save their property and way of life. They canceled their bankrutcy as being an exercise in futility. They returned home and went upstairs where the the wife laid down on the bed and her husband of many years stabbed her to death. He then started the house (in forclosure) on fire. He then took a butcher knife in his right hand and plunged it into his heart. I have often wondered how deep the despair would have to be to lay down and wait to be stabbed to death. Or, how deep the despair to stab your mate of many years to death. Or ,have the mind set to take a butcher knife and plunge it through your heart. The utter despair. The utter darkness. Of course Pahunkboy you are not your brothers' keeper. You are a certifiable ass. Pennsyvania is next. If anything laying down and willing being stabbed to death over the loss of a house, is more insane than sad, and much less to do with the economy than mental illness. So, what is the moral of your story better to die, than suck it up and work at the gas station and live in a trailer while you get back on your feet. Anyway, those people needed MENTAL help because they were way to indoctrinated and stupid proud, apparently. Think about it, killing yourself over a house. Whatever. That's insane, stupid, or both. Call me an ass, that will be fine, personally, anyone that looks at that story of mental illness as a reason to fund a bailout is an ass, IMO.

MzMia -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/17/2008 4:36:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissSCD *I love a chevy. It is tradition in my family to own one. My father would roll over in his grave if he knew that Toyotas were racing in Nascar. I am getting used to it.* The sad thing is that General Motors missed the boat. When gas prices were twice as much as they are now, they did not develop automobiles that were efficent and what the consumer needed. They continued to stock pile SUVs. President Elect Obama is in favor of helping the auto industry. It may go through especially if he is backing it. Overall, I say let the company adjust and meet the needs of their customers. They are way off track. *Regards, MissSCD* I agree that for a variety of reasons Detroit missed the boat. At work and in life, I tend to study and take tips from those that I admire and they are usually successful. Does it take a rocket scientist in Detroit to try to see what the successful auto makers are doing, and emmulate them? Failed business models need to study successful business models! [sm=book.gif] I am betting they get bailed out, but they need so many strings attached to the money, that they are restructured from the bottom to the top. Congress is gearing up for the bailout showdown today. Tickets to watch the show are $10! [;)]

Archer -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/17/2008 6:47:54 AM)
Allowing the big 3 to go bankrupt would not spell the end for the US Auto Industry. (assuming we are talking Reorginization style bankrupcy) Bankrupcy would cancel the Union Contracts. If you don't think the Union is a large part of the problem then you are being naive. The cost of legacy retirement benifits of already retired workers on every single car made is about $1,000 per car. Easy to hide that in a $40,000 unit tougher to hide that in a $15,000 unit. Allow them to go Bankrupt and reorganize, restructure their debt and losses, Have the courts demand a Iacoca style management change. Out with the top tiers of management, replace them all. Renegotiate the union contracts based on the realities of the fresh start. There is good reason for the Foriegn Makers to be opening factories in the US. So long as labor costs are kept in check the company saves on the total costs because they don't have to ship them whole across an ocean to get them to market. meatcleaver The idea is not that the US Army couldn't seize some F 150 pickups, but rather that the US Government could sieze the operating vehicle manufacturing plant to build more Hummer and maybe retool to make tanks and other such vehicles. You know like they did at Ford during WWII. They stopped producing any civilian vehicles and retooled for military vehicles. Allow that vehicle manufacturing capacity to die off and you end up with the situation that was being discussed by the Generals backing the bailouts.

meatcleaver -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/17/2008 6:54:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer meatcleaver The idea is not that the US Army couldn't seize some F 150 pickups, but rather that the US Government could sieze the operating vehicle manufacturing plant to build more Hummer and maybe retool to make tanks and other such vehicles. You know like they did at Ford during WWII. They stopped producing any civilian vehicles and retooled for military vehicles. Allow that vehicle manufacturing capacity to die off and you end up with the situation that was being discussed by the Generals backing the bailouts. Similar was said about the airline industry but the US is softening its stance because internationally the policy is recognized as protectionism and is costing US airlines business in a difficult market.

Archer -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/17/2008 6:58:37 AM)
I'm not saying it's 100% of the reason but to ignore the fact that building a heavy vehicle manufacturing base significant enough to shift to a real war footing from scratch would be significantly more difficult than doing so from a position of not having that similar manufacturing base. To call it all protectionism is crap to call it all strategicly imperative is crap. The fact is there is some strategic imperative and there is some protectionism. You'll note I was FOR allowing the Industry to file bankrupcy rather than bailing them out without significant pain and restructuring.

meatcleaver -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/17/2008 7:43:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer I'm not saying it's 100% of the reason but to ignore the fact that building a heavy vehicle manufacturing base significant enough to shift to a real war footing from scratch would be significantly more difficult than doing so from a position of not having that similar manufacturing base. To call it all protectionism is crap to call it all strategicly imperative is crap. The fact is there is some strategic imperative and there is some protectionism. You'll note I was FOR allowing the Industry to file bankrupcy rather than bailing them out without significant pain and restructuring. I'm not accusing. Most countries use similar lame excuses to protect their industries from the free trade they claim to believe in.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/17/2008 6:58:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus <<And by the way....Seattle is rather spectacular this time of year[8D] ) >> Dude. Get me a job, and I will move into a tent in your backyard. Might even wash your car... (I actually have a vastly more comfortable place than my backyard in mind [:D] ) TEASE. MONSTER. (waiting for plane ticket) I just flew right past you this afternoon.

MzMia -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/17/2008 7:00:44 PM)
Well, it appears that we might find out on Thursday, if Congress is going to "bail them out". It is taking them a long time to decide, I still say it is going to happen.

MarsBonfire -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/17/2008 8:22:20 PM)
Funny... you DO notice that Honda, Toyota, Huyndai... all of those manufacturers who have plants in the US aren't begging for a bailout... Their business is humming right along. Know why? Two reasons: 1) they changed their product to fit the market demands. They aren't making gas guzzlers like the H2, or the Ford F-150. 2) they don't have the cushy payments to make to retired UAW workers, adds almost $3k to each vehicle they make. I say... let them declare bankruptcy. Then, once the old crap has been carved off of them (namely their BS UAW contracts, and kicking out the shithead management) then the US government can offer to invest in the restructured companies to get them back on their feet... with strings attached that they start making cars and trucks that the American people WANT, when gas gets back up to $4.00+ a gallon.

popeye1250 -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/17/2008 10:05:04 PM)
I've always been a Ford truck, Mercury, and now a Lincoln man but I do like GM cars and recently had a Cadillac STS for two weeks and they're a very nice car! The problem GM has is that they make too many differant types of cars. They could keep the Chevy of course and the Cadillacs and their GMC trucks but they should get rid of their Pontiac and Buick lines. Pontiacs are ugly, too many angles on them. And Buick is a no brainer, in ten years 90% of their Buick customers will be dead! I think it's a law or something that you have to be at least 80 years old to buy a Buick. It's all "cue-tips" that drive them! "BUICK = fuckin' olllld!" Never fails, I'll get stuck in a line of traffic doing 20 mph under the limit and it's always a BUICK leading the pack!

MzMia -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/17/2008 10:07:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 I've always been a Ford truck, Mercury, and now a Lincoln man but I do like GM cars and recently had a Cadillac STS for two weeks and they're a very nice car! The problem GM has is that they make too many differant types of cars. They could keep the Chevy of course and the Cadillacs and their GMC trucks but they should get rid of their Pontiac and Buick lines. Pontiacs are ugly, too many angles on them. And Buick is a no brainer, in ten years 90% of their Buick customers will be dead! I think it's a law or something that you have to be at least 80 years old to buy a Buick. It's all "cue-tips" that drive them! "BUICK = fuckin' olllld!" Never fails, I'll get stuck in a line of traffic doing 20 mph under the limit and it's always a BUICK leading the pack! ....scratches buying a Buick off the list. Popeye, you are a real riot. I agree that GM has too many models! At this point, they need to consider about 4-5 models, if/when they get bailed out.

popeye1250 -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/17/2008 10:12:06 PM)
Mia, I had a Rollscanardley when I was a kid.

SilverMark -> RE: Mixed feelings on "bail outs"/ BUT let's bail out GM! (11/18/2008 2:05:54 AM)
Had a Buick Rondevous smaller SUV, it was a great vehicle!...But, I do have a full head of gray hair....so I guess I qualify?

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