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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 5:40:07 AM

celticlord2112

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I think part of the accomplishment is in fact that people cast votes based on broad/serious issues

And you know this to be true because.....?

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 6:26:19 AM

DedicatedDom40

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http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/

I dont see much change here.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 8:23:35 AM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I voted for him because he was the best suited for the job and times.

He could have been a Chinese acrobat or a pretty female governor from a state like Alaska and I still would have voted for Obama.

My comment was about the nation and my compliment was about looking past ignorance.

If that`s insulting,so be it.

And I want to compliment you on being able to spell his name right on the ballet! High five!

So....uh....all of us who voted for McCain....did we fail to achieve your enlightened state?

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 11/11/2008 8:27:20 AM >

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 8:27:14 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
And I want to compliment you on being able to spell his name right on the ballet! High five!

Owner has a gorgeous pink tutu. I'm dead jealous of it.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 10:03:14 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

...the change i'd like to see is, predictably, in foreign policy. The previous administration seemed to totally fail to understand how the rest of the world worked.....and not just tricky places like the Middle East, but also Europe. The USA needs its allies......in this global economy all countries need allies. i'm hoping that PE Obama will remember that allies are friends, not enemies you haven't bombed yet.

From a historical point of view, because of how allies shift they are just enemies we are not bombing today.
And if all goes well we never will.

...well, predictably i disagree. Heh. Well, actually not entirely, but it's a matter of tone and degree. The last eight years has been marked by a foreign policy that appears to keep the possibility of bombing an ally close to hand, contingent on whether or not a sovereign country falls into lockstep with current US short term policy.
i'd like to see a less bullying approach, an awareness that simply disagreeing with the US doesn't make them an enemy.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 10:05:09 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Decisions are never made anywhere but the gut. After all the reasoning is done, intuition and instinct still hold sway.

....well absolutist as ever CL, however it's a shade more complex than that. For some the gut holds sway, others distrust their kneejerk reactions. Life is more complex than your simplistic model.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 10:35:52 AM

Cagey18

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

....well absolutist as ever CL, however it's a shade more complex than that. For some the gut holds sway, others distrust their kneejerk reactions. Life is more complex than your simplistic model.

Well said, my thoughts exactly.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 10:46:58 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It isn't the plan that is the problem, Cagey. It's how he is going to respond when the plan doesn't work as well in reality as it did on paper. Watch those projections start climbing. Watch the definition of who is rich fall. Watch him him talk about how we all need to do our part, as families making $50-60k start seeing smaller paychecks.

What I find interesting is that people are opposing the plan not because they think it's not a good idea but based on speculation that it won't work.

Shouldn't we at least try it first, and then start bitching if what you say does happen?

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 11:22:38 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

I'm looking forward to include having a guy in charge who analyzes situations and makes decisions with his brain rather than his gut or his perceptions of good and evil or what he thinks god whispers in ear.

Decisions are never made anywhere but the gut. After all the reasoning is done, intuition and instinct still hold sway.

Perceptions of good and evil.....normal people call those morals. You can argue them, we all should debate them, but it's damn foolish to dismiss them.

Absolutely right, always best to go with your gut instincts.

"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue.
I was able to get a sense of his soul."

( George Bush describing Vladimir Putin, June 15, 2001)

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/11/2008 11:24:11 AM >

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 11:37:14 AM

subrob1967

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
What I find interesting is that people are opposing the plan not because they think it's not a good idea but based on speculation that it won't work.

Shouldn't we at least try it first, and then start bitching if what you say does happen?

Would you try jumping off the Empire State Building without a parachute to see if you survived?

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 12:59:34 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
What I find interesting is that people are opposing the plan not because they think it's not a good idea but based on speculation that it won't work.

Shouldn't we at least try it first, and then start bitching if what you say does happen?

Would you try jumping off the Empire State Building without a parachute to see if you survived?

No, that would be a bad plan.

I haven't seen many say that Obama's plan is bad based on the plan itself.

What I have seen is people saying it may become bad because it may not work. Which forces a lot of stretched "what if" arguments.

Sort of like being offered a parachute before I take my jump off the Empire State Building but refusing it because it may not work.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 1:40:06 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

Absolutely right, always best to go with your gut instincts.

"Best" has nothing to do with it. You can analyze all you want, research all you like, seek opinion and alternate perspective all you like--the decision itself will still be a matter of what the person "feels" is right; that places it back in the realm of intuition and instinct every time.

Perfect information is not an option in practical decision-making.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 1:41:16 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

Life is more complex than your simplistic model.

Actually, it's even simpler than that. I'm still learning how to uncomplicate things.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 1:48:19 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Life is more complex than your simplistic model.

Actually, it's even simpler than that. I'm still learning how to uncomplicate things.

...heh.....but to paraphrase a famous prayer.....

God grant me the courage to know when things are complicated, the serenity to know when they're simple and the wisdom to know the difference.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 2:00:03 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

"Best" has nothing to do with it. You can analyze all you want, research all you like, seek opinion and alternate perspective all you like--the decision itself will still be a matter of what the person "feels" is right; that places it back in the realm of intuition and instinct every time.

Perfect information is not an option in practical decision-making.

That may be how you make your choices, and that's great if it works for you, but I don't think that is how most people make decisions.

I believe most people try to make rational decisions based on the available information and realize that when you operate from feelings or instinct you often make poor choices, as per my example.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 2:45:29 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

but I don't think that is how most people make decisions.

It is how everyone makes decisions.

Think about it. How much information is "enough"? How much analysis is "enough"? How much reasoning is "enough"?

The reasoning is enough when we "know" (intuitively know) it is enough....ergo the decision point is intuitive and instinctive--every time.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 4:43:35 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

but I don't think that is how most people make decisions.

It is how everyone makes decisions.

Think about it. How much information is "enough"? How much analysis is "enough"? How much reasoning is "enough"?

The reasoning is enough when we "know" (intuitively know) it is enough....ergo the decision point is intuitive and instinctive--every time.

Correct, that's the order of things.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 5:44:28 PM

subrob1967

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

No, that would be a bad plan.

I haven't seen many say that Obama's plan is bad based on the plan itself.

What I have seen is people saying it may become bad because it may not work. Which forces a lot of stretched "what if" arguments.

Sort of like being offered a parachute before I take my jump off the Empire State Building but refusing it because it may not work.

57,900,986 people who voted on Nov 4th thought Obama's plan was a bad plan.

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 5:52:12 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

No, that would be a bad plan.

I haven't seen many say that Obama's plan is bad based on the plan itself.

What I have seen is people saying it may become bad because it may not work. Which forces a lot of stretched "what if" arguments.

Sort of like being offered a parachute before I take my jump off the Empire State Building but refusing it because it may not work.

57,900,986 people who voted on Nov 4th thought Obama's plan was a bad plan.

And your point is ?

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RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! - 11/11/2008 6:20:17 PM

Musicmystery