RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! (Full Version)

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corysub -> RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! (11/13/2008 8:07:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
I can link you to some Obama webpages, other than
what is printed, I don't know what is actually in his head.


Doesn't that bother you?

I appreciate the offer, but what I am really interested in knowing is what change you voted for as an individual if you cast your vote for the purposes of change?

Everybody has been talking about how they want change and how Obama is going to bring it. If that be the case, I don't think it should be hard to summarize what change you voted for when you cast that vote.

I mean, if the whole basis for voting for Obama was for CHANGE! when that CHANGE! can't be quantified or made specific, then why vote for CHANGE?

The U.S. being in a nuclear war would definitely by CHANGE! What if that's the CHANGE! you voted for?


You are asking for clarification from people who voted for Obama that is not going to happen.  No one knows what kind of "change" is coming....only that there will be change.  Wonderful...but every new president bring some sort of change....just a question of degree.  Obama has no track record of politica performance to suggest what might be coming.  That's the reason why people like me were so concerned about his judgement ...or lack therof, in chosing friends.  For all of our sakes..for our country..lets hope that the man grows into the job and there is time for the on the job training that Biden said is not really to be expected of a President.  The United States used to be a country that believed In God we Trust...well..now it's Obama we Trust.   What's wrong with this picture?



GoddessDustyGold -> RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! (11/13/2008 9:41:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife



Yes, I have heard of a huge spending cut.  Ending our involvement in Iraq.


Yup!  And I'll be watching that one with great interest. In the meantime, I would be more than happy to know that that money (if and when we get out of that mess) is spent at home in the right places.  I will be honest and say right now that I am not holding My breath.

quote:

As for your other points, they seem to revolve around how unfair it is to create additional taxes on the wealthy and how everyone will be out of jobs if they don't have that huge 3.5% tax savings to be able to employ people.


No, I am saying, as is My idealology, that a graduated income tax is just plain wrong.   Is now and always has been.  And I am uncomfortable with statements earlier in this thread such as

quote:

The "some people" that will get taxed more are those in the very top tax bracket.  Those that can most afford it.  Not to mention that it is a very small percentage increase. 


Bold emphasis above is Mine.

That most definitely smacks of "from each according to his ability to each according to his needs."
Or LBJ's "We must take from the haves and give to the have nots."

quote:

You do realize that the only thing happening here is eliminating the  Bush tax decrease on the top tax bracket and returning it to what it was during the Clinton years.  Compare the unemployment rates under Clinton and Bush then talk to me about how this is going to cost jobs.  


For now, yes, that is the supposed plan.  I am of the firm opinion that it won't last.  Give 'em an inch...and all that. 
But I am willing to wait and see how it all rolls out.  Just don't be shocked when the numbers change.  And I will be quite happy if they don't. 



Musicmystery -> RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! (11/14/2008 6:27:25 AM)

quote:

Except, that is, for those households making over $250K, who are going to lose the 3.9% tax cut they enjoyed under the Chimp for eight years.


Again, tax rates are marginal.

Someone making $250,000 would not see this at all. Someone making $250,001 would see the tax----on $1 only (just the amount OVER $250,000--the first $250,000 is taxed just as it is for anyone earning less income).



GoddessDustyGold -> RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! (11/14/2008 1:57:14 PM)

So that means even less in income stream for the Feds!  Interesting....No?
Edited to add:  I am not sure that this would be correct so I will have to look it up.  I was never aware that income tax was figured on a certain percentage up to a certain amount and then a higher percentage for any amount over that.  But I could be wrong! There is a different rate for the capital gains and/or unearned income but it all goes onto the same return.  Just different schedules. 
 
See what a mess this whole system is? 



Cagey18 -> RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! (11/14/2008 5:43:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

So that means even less in income stream for the Feds! 
 

No, that's the way it's always been.  Heard of income tax brackets?  What MM touches on is exactly how they work, and how they've always worked.

Here are the 2008 tax rates for a married couple filing jointly.  Note that the tax rate is on each block of income, not on the total income.

10%
$0 – $16,050

15%
$16,051 – $65,100

25%
$65,101 – $131,450

28%
$131,451 – $200,300

33%
$200,301 – $357,700

35%
$357,701+

So a household making, say, $181,450 would pay
10% on the first $16,050
plus
15% on the next $49,050 ($65,100 - 16,050)
plus
25% on the next $66,350 ($131,450 - 65,100)
plus
28% on the next $50,000 ($181,450 - 131,450)

ie just because you're in the second-highest bracket, you don't pay 28% on the total amount.




GoddessDustyGold -> RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! (11/14/2008 8:45:28 PM)

Gotcha! 
So, again I state, that means even less of an income stream (windfall?) for the Feds...No?



Cagey18 -> RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! (11/14/2008 8:52:39 PM)

Depends on the numbers, really.  For example, when Obama lets the Bush tax cuts expire, there's more of an income stream for the Feds ($300 billion IIRC), since the top bracket will go from 35% to 38.5%.  However, that's offset by his tax cuts for the middle-class and lower-class, so I'm not sure what the net is. 

But the 3.5% or 3.9% that's been the topic for the past few posts, is an increase for the Feds.



rosanegra -> RE: CHANGE! THE CHANGE IS COMING! (11/14/2008 11:11:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
I can link you to some Obama webpages, other than
what is printed, I don't know what is actually in his head.


Doesn't that bother you?

I appreciate the offer, but what I am really interested in knowing is what change you voted for as an individual if you cast your vote for the purposes of change?

Everybody has been talking about how they want change and how Obama is going to bring it. If that be the case, I don't think it should be hard to summarize what change you voted for when you cast that vote.

I mean, if the whole basis for voting for Obama was for CHANGE! when that CHANGE! can't be quantified or made specific, then why vote for CHANGE?

The U.S. being in a nuclear war would definitely by CHANGE! What if that's the CHANGE! you voted for?


Okay.. I'll open this up by saying I did not vote for Obama. Nor did I vote for McCain.. I actually wrote in Ron Paul, which, were he elected (I know he didn't have a chance in hell) would be REAL change..

Had I been in a state like Ohio or Florida where swing voters like myself actually make a huge difference, it would have been Obama for me.. but here in Alaska, he didn't have a chance in hell, and we knew who the president elect was before the polls even closed.

So.. as far as change goes.. here is what I hope we will see.. and what I believe, if Barack Obama has his way, will happen.

Yes, I believe the Patriot Act will be repealed.

I also believe that military deployments may be shortened, which is a major positive change in my eyes, since it has a huge impact on my current situation.

My hope is that the economy takes a shift for the better, although what policy changes it will take to do this I am not sure of... I just believe that a brilliant mind such as Barack Obama's has real potential for finding solutions to this economic crisis we're in.

I hope to see healthcare improve. This is not a selfish desire, since all of my healthcare is provided by the military.. I feel horrible about the fact that so many people in this country don't have adequate healthcare.

...and if I have to give a quarter of my paycheck up in taxes to see all of this happen, I'll gladly do it without bitching.

Furthermore, since an apparently a LARGE majority of the United States was willing to vote for him, that is the popular sentiment... meaning for those of you who don't like what the rest of us decided... this is a democracy, majority rules, and (to use a line that I've heard from many Republicans when I've bitched about Bush politics driving this country into the ground) if you don't like it, feel free to leave.. I'll even wave goodbye at the airport.




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