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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 12:13:44 AM   
variation30


Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline 		yup...a lot of the 'prominent' families made their money like that.

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all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 2:57:25 AM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

Actually, he is on record:
*In an Illinois general candidate questionaire, he favored a ban on all handguns.
*He has supported punitive taxes on firearms and ammo, which in effect is taking the ability of many to buy a gun due to the cost.
*He opposes right to carry laws, as stated in the Chicago Tribune.
*He voted to allow lawsuits against the industry, which would in effect bankrupt the industry, and do what the Congress and courts have not done Senate S 397, vote 219, July 29, 2005

I could go on.


There really isn't any point. They will not listen... facts seem to obscure the issues for them.

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 3:07:45 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Listen, Evility.  I'm have a f**king useless college degree in Sociology, but it is an interesting subject.
 
Gun sales are known to rise, not unexpectedly, any time a group is feeling anxious.  The folks in the U.S. have much to be anxious about right now.  Will Obama have the capacity to lead us out the current economic quagmire?  Or to exricate us from the f**king Wars in Iraq and Afganistan?
 
I think people feel just as they did during the Cuban Missle Crisis, when it was not clear whether the U.S.S.R. would be launching nuclear missles at U.S. soil from the country of Cuba.
 
I don't fault anyone who feels they need some personal protection.  The country does 'feel' more unsafe to me, as I sit here in one of the last remaining nice neighborhoods in Cleveland, Ohio,
 
candystripper 

(in reply to Evility)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 3:27:29 AM   
BbwCanaDomme


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline 		I just have to say that I think it's really interesting that a lot of the people talking about gun ownership are using the same talking points as a lot of the people fighting on behalf of gay marriage (it's none of the governments business, just because you don't like it doesn't mean I shouldn't do it, etc) when it's safe to say a lot of gun owners oppose gay marriage... probably the wrong thread, but yeah, I just found it interesting.

(in reply to Evility)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 3:52:34 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		Well, my personal beliefs, as a proper Progressive, are that I would prefer to live in a society where the right to live free from the threat of being shot to death trumps the right to own firearms, and that I can see more than one interpretation of the 2nd A, given the need to prevent "Negro" uprisings in the slave-holding South, so as to preserve slaveowners' "property rights", but I really don't care if people want to own firearms or not. It's not an issue with me. Just like I don't care if gays want to marry or not. Just liike I don't care if people want to smoke pot or not. It really doesn't matter to me.

I'd rather spend my money on travelling, seeing the world, meeting new people, understanding the way others think and live, but that's me. I've always been the adventurous sort.

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(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 4:14:02 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Ok, I understand the right to own a weapon....someone please tell me why people need to own assault weapons?


Oh good Gawd. Why is it that every single gun thread.....no matter what is being discussed.....ends up boiling down to this. Seriously SilverMark, I mean you no disrespect but you will find many different answers to that question....but to be perfectly honest....I've never seen any answer to it matter one whit to someone who already has their mind set about assault weapons. Personally, I regularly hunt with mine...it's a damned accurate gun.


You hunt with an assault weapon?????? What in the world are  you hunting??
I'm going to apologize now mistoferin in case I offend you it's not my intention. If your so interested in hunting why not just use a bow? What skill does it take to point an automatic weapon at an animal and pull the trigger? 
Sorry I don't get it. I agree with SilverMark why would anyone need an assault weapon?

scarlet



My nephew has an AK that he uses for target practice at the range. He don't need it, but he enjoys it. I know a lot of people on this site who have multiple floggers. One even has one that weighs about 5 lbs, he calls it a mop. He doesn't need the extra floggers, so by your logic, he shouldn't have them. Why have something you don't need?

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 11/12/2008 4:25:52 AM >

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(in reply to scarlethiney)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 4:59:24 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga

"On the issue of urban policy, Obama says he favors "commonsense measures" to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and children, and that he would bring back the expired "assault weapon" ban and make it permanent."



How does that tie in with your earlier accusations that "Obama himself has advocated against concealed carry permits, asault rifles, and has wanted to see a 500% tax on gun sales and ammo sales"? Re-read what you wrote above. It's not the same, is it  ?

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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 5:54:24 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

They got a bad rap during Vietnam because the Army used ball powder, which is dirtier, which was a holdover from the M14 days.  That caused the jams, and unfortunately, cost the lives of GI's.  Once the powder issue was resolved, and GI's taught to clean the weapon more, the jams weren't as bad.  Again, a gas piston system on the gun would have been a much better way to go.  They have conversion kits now for the gun, and I would hope that the Army would consider them.  The tolerances are tight in a M16/AR15, so any fouling builds up and causes a jam.  Eliminate the fouling, and you have a much more reliable weapon.


The problem was not enough blowback pressure to cycle the weapon through battery.  The other problem was the inadequate twist in the barrel...once they solved those two problems and taught the soldiers how to clean their weapon they seemed to work pretty well.
 
H.

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 5:56:25 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

How'd you like to apply for one of those positions as one of the people who goes to people's homes and tries to take their guns away?
"Pay, $10,000 a month. (but you probably won't be cashing your first check.)
"Life insurance included."
($10 worth that'll cost us $1,000 for a week's premium.)
When "they" come to take your guns that's the time to *use* them!



The SWAT team usually comes in body armor and always as a team...lotsa luck with that.
 
H.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 5:58:41 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

which is silly as someone who has practiced bumpfiring can empty a clip out of a semi-automatic rifle very quickly.


"Bump firing" still requires a pull on the trigger for each round expended. 
 
H.



< Message edited by HunterS -- 11/12/2008 6:00:59 AM >

(in reply to variation30)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 6:09:23 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

The thing is, a Chicago politician could pass things that affect Chicagoans only.  An Ilinios Senator can pass things that affect Illinois only.
The U.S. senator from Illinois votes on laws that affect the whole nation not just Illinois.

As President, he could push for things that affect everyone,
The constitution says that congress is the branch of government that passes laws.  Sounds to me like you might have gone to the same civics class as Sarah Palin.

well, at least the law abiding ones of us.  The thing about a greater community good, or however he put it, could really allow one to apply any kind of gun control to any community.  Just because you have Dodge City in the southside of Chicago, does not mean that the whole of Chicago, or Illinois in general, has a problem.  Personally, if you want to reduce gun crime, make the punishment for using a gun in a crime not worth the benefit of being armed.  Double any sentence if a gun is involved, and do not allow one day off for good behavior on any sentence that's gun related.  While I am at it, let's start talking about hard labor for these violent types.
But not for child molesters or white collar criminals like "scooter" Libby?


Oh wait, we can't do that, the ACLU won't like that too much.
The ACLU defends the constitution...why do you have a problem with that?  Which particular cases that the ACLU has defended do you disagree with?

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 6:11:32 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

This would be the "Brady Bill" pushed through congress by Sarah and Jim Brady...both of whom are very active republicrats. To characterize this as a demopub bill is to be less than accurate.


*cough* They are both registered Democrats...... It is entirely a democrat pushed bill, both sponsored and lobbied by them and a few RINOs signed on as well.


Perhaps a little "niquil" for your cough and a little "googgle" for the ignorance of your post.
 
H.

(in reply to Naga)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 6:52:56 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

The .223 round was preferred by the Defense Dept. for two reasons.  One, the round was more likely to wound a soldier as to kill.
Not so.  The DOD went to the .223 because it was found that most combat took place at ranges of less than 200 yards.  The 1000 yard range of 30-06 and .762 was deemed unnecessary.  The weight penality,both in ammo and weapon, for the larger caliber was traded for superior firepower with the lighter,smaller caliber weapon.  This coupled with the dramatically lower per unit cost of the M16 vs. M14.   Lethality is a function of marksmanship not sectional density when the weapons are used at their prescribed range.
Here is an interesting read.
http://anarchangel.blogspot.com/2007/02/whos-at-fault-for-m16.html


It generally takes two soldiers to carry off a wounded soldier, thus taking three out of the fight, at least temporarily.  Second, the smaller, lighter round means that a soldier can carry more on his person into the field, and would likely not run out of ammo as fast.

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:08:16 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

How'd you like to apply for one of those positions as one of the people who goes to people's homes and tries to take their guns away?
"Pay, $10,000 a month. (but you probably won't be cashing your first check.)
"Life insurance included."
($10 worth that'll cost us $1,000 for a week's premium.)
When "they" come to take your guns that's the time to *use* them!



The SWAT team usually comes in body armor and always as a team...lotsa luck with that.
 
H.


Hunter, what if they lose1-5 guys at every gun seisure?
How long do you think those seizures would last?
Body armor will stop handguns, not a 30-30 doing 2800 ft per sec.
What if "The People" turn on the Police?
Lay seiges to Police stations, burn them down, snipe them when they lure them to false calls. Hang them from trees.
What if people started shooting congressmen and senators?
What if "the govt" decided to "adjust" the first amendment?
This could spiral out of control very easily.
We could very well have an "Iraq-like" situation here.
There's enough people who don't like the Police now!
Why would we want to add another 100 million?
At the point that "the govt" or the police starts trying to seize arms from "The People", they *cease* being "the govt" or the police and Thomas Jefferson is right.
Go ahead, fill out an application!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/12/2008 7:20:19 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:09:33 AM   
scarlethiney


Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa
Wow.   I don't know where you live, but the deer must be positively frightening. 


And this type of answer is exactly what makes gun threads so frustrating. How do you try to intelligently debate such a comment?


mistoferin I realize our incredulity at your "need" to own an assault rifle is frustrating. Our trying to understand just "why" you need such a weapon is also frustrating.  I don't think either side is going to agree on this or have an understanding about what motivates someone to want this kind of weapon.
I don't have a problem with your owning one it is your right. I do have a problem with every "Joe" (no pun intended Joe) having one and not being responsible with it. Of course there is no guaruntee that every one who has one will be responsible so that's where I think the problem is for those of us who don't like weapons. Surely you can understand that.

scarlet


_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.


see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:14:26 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Scarlethiny, people who own assault weapons are FAR more responsable than people who own cars.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to scarlethiney)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:19:50 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa
Wow.   I don't know where you live, but the deer must be positively frightening. 


And this type of answer is exactly what makes gun threads so frustrating. How do you try to intelligently debate such a comment?


mistoferin I realize our incredulity at your "need" to own an assault rifle is frustrating. Our trying to understand just "why" you need such a weapon is also frustrating.  I don't think either side is going to agree on this or have an understanding about what motivates someone to want this kind of weapon.
I don't have a problem with your owning one it is your right. I do have a problem with every "Joe" (no pun intended Joe) having one and not being responsible with it. Of course there is no guaruntee that every one who has one will be responsible so that's where I think the problem is for those of us who don't like weapons. Surely you can understand that.

scarlet


As has been pointed out several times in this thread the only difference between sport rifles and assault riffles is cosmetic...one can only wonder why you continue to post professing ignorance of this fact.
 
H.

(in reply to scarlethiney)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:19:51 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa
Wow.   I don't know where you live, but the deer must be positively frightening. 


And this type of answer is exactly what makes gun threads so frustrating. How do you try to intelligently debate such a comment?


mistoferin I realize our incredulity at your "need" to own an assault rifle is frustrating. Our trying to understand just "why" you need such a weapon is also frustrating.  I don't think either side is going to agree on this or have an understanding about what motivates someone to want this kind of weapon.
I don't have a problem with your owning one it is your right. I do have a problem with every "Joe" (no pun intended Joe) having one and not being responsible with it. Of course there is no guaruntee that every one who has one will be responsible so that's where I think the problem is for those of us who don't like weapons. Surely you can understand that.

scarlet



scarlet, you must have missed my response to you on page 5. And for the record, no I don't have a problem with anyone who is a law abiding citizen with no record of mental health issues owning one. Why would I? As I detailed in my response to you, they are no different than other rifles accept in appearance and capacity. Oh and some versions of them come with a bayonet on them....but you folks aren't overly concerned about that part are you?

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 11/12/2008 7:33:54 AM >

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(in reply to scarlethiney)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:22:49 AM   
scarlethiney


Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord21

12

quote:

Sorry I don't get it. I agree with SilverMark why would anyone need an assault weapon?

Do you even know the difference between an "assault weapon" and an ordinary rifle?



Yes actually I do. Any other questions?

scarlet




_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.


see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:34:30 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord21

12

quote:

Sorry I don't get it. I agree with SilverMark why would anyone need an assault weapon?

Do you even know the difference between an "assault weapon" and an ordinary rifle?



Yes actually I do. Any other questions?

scarlet





Obviously you do not because you keep posting as if there was some functional difference between an assault rifle and a sport rifle.
 
H.

(in reply to scarlethiney)
Profile   Post #: 160
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