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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:35:42 AM   
Owner59


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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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The only ones buying guns b/c of the election are the easily impressed(weak-minded) and those vulnerable to scarwy NRA stories.

Sad but true.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to scarlethiney)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:43:38 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

How'd you like to apply for one of those positions as one of the people who goes to people's homes and tries to take their guns away?
"Pay, $10,000 a month. (but you probably won't be cashing your first check.)
"Life insurance included."
($10 worth that'll cost us $1,000 for a week's premium.)
When "they" come to take your guns that's the time to *use* them!



The SWAT team usually comes in body armor and always as a team...lotsa luck with that.
 
H.


Hunter, there's another problem with with your scenario.
Say if someone does kill three or four police officers attempting to seize their firearms and that the country had not descended into caos up to that point.
How do you think people who own guns on a jury are going to vote in "seisure cases?"
I know how I'd vote!
"NOT GUILTY!"

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:45:52 AM   
RacerJim


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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Obama - scholar, lecturer and practicioner of Constitutional Law that he professes to be - fully intends to infringe upon a right (to bear arms) guaranteed by the Constitution without first proving he meets a requirement (being a natural born U.S. Citizen to be eligible to be POTUS) of the Constitution.

Surely any objective thinking person can understand that's wrong.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:55:08 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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Wayne LaPierre ,scholar, lecturer and practicioner of Constitutional Law that he professes to be fully intends to mis-lead as many folks as possible.

He`d got bridges to sell......

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/12/2008 7:56:00 AM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:55:22 AM   
scarlethiney


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Joined: 8/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Scarlethiny, people who own assault weapons are FAR more responsable than people who own cars.


Popeye I do think the majority of people who own guns are responsible. It's the small percentage of people who aren't that worries me.  I have a family of gun toting NRA supporters. I just don't happen to be one of them.  Again I do not have problem with your right or desire to own guns. I do wish it were a mandatory law that you had to take a class or become proficient in using one before owning it. And yes I do realize this does apply if you plan on carrying a concealed weapon.

scarlet


_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.


see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:59:00 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney
Again I do not have problem with your right or desire to own guns.
scarlet


If this statement is true, then please explain why it is that you seem so adamantly opposed.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to scarlethiney)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 7:59:06 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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"responsible. It's the small percentage of people who aren't "
 
Include in that the folks who are hell bent on arming that percentage to the teeth.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to scarlethiney)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 8:03:01 AM   
scarlethiney


Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Okay ,just for shits and giggles give me one example of a private citizens "need" for an assault rifle....

I'll be glad to.

I want one.

what is the difference between a want and a need? they are both subjective to the individual, are they not? if an individual thinks he needs one, he needs one.

is this difficult for you to grasp?

you may not think I need an 80/20 linen silk blend pair of pants. but I think I do need them. are you going to claim that I don't need them and shouldn't be allowed to buy them?



I don't think your legendary sarcasm is difficult for anyone to grasp. This is a typical response from you ..............sigh
No one doubts your right to have what you want and certainly no one is "telling" you what you can or can't do.  Your assumption that the rest of us place vast importance on your choices is  "silly".
Answering the posts with just a straight forward comment minus the insults could be "novel" for you?  Just a thought.

scarlet





_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.


see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to variation30)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 8:05:18 AM   
Dnomyar


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Just what is a assualt rifle? We have rifles that look cosmeticaly like assualt rifles that are just regular rifles.  In the US you cannot have an automatic weapon unless you are a liscensed dealer. I used to be a liscensed dealer. That is one way around a gun ban. What difference does it make in what type of rifle you hunt with. Screw the bambi huggers. They dont want us killing babbi.We have over 50,000 car deer accidents in Michigan alone every year. This time of year the highway is littered with dead dear. What happens to the people who die in some of these accidents. Are the bambi huggers going to give the deer a high five.  As far as gun ownership goes look at Switzerland. Every home there has a gun. Why worry about the tax on bullets when you can always make your own. As kids we made our own zip guns and small cannons. 

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 8:19:41 AM   
scarlethiney


Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney
Again I do not have problem with your right or desire to own guns.
scarlet


If this statement is true, then please explain why it is that you seem so adamantly opposed.


I am opposed to just any one owning a gun. I was a witness to a violent crime. In high school two young men who had argued earlier in the day both attended a party where one walked up and shot the other not three feet away from myself and a group of friends.
It was horrific. Still is. I realize this is nothing compared to any one who has been in military but it certainly affected me.
And no this kid didn't own this gun it was his fathers and accessible to him.  He also went hunting with his father and brothers. He knew how to use a gun. He wasn't any one any of us ever thought would have used a gun in this way.  He was a stupid kid who let his emotions get the best of him and in the process ruined more than his life. Perhaps Erin I would just like to see more control in place, or more education. And yes my feelings are coloured by this event.

scarlet


_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.


see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 8:25:13 AM   
HunterS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


The SWAT team usually comes in body armor and always as a team...lotsa luck with that.
 
H.


Hunter, what if they lose1-5 guys at every gun seisure?
This is an assumption not born out by fact.

How long do you think those seizures would last?
Body armor will stop handguns, not a 30-30 doing 2800 ft per sec.
Wrongo...Have you seen the blue ones that extend below your crotch that all the news people use in Iraq?  They will stop a 30-06 at two feet with no body trauma. 


What if "The People" turn on the Police?
Lay seiges to Police stations, burn them down, snipe them when they lure them to false calls. Hang them from trees.
Sounds to me more like late nite TV.


What if people started shooting congressmen and senators?
Add lawyers to that list and you could probably garner a following.

What if "the govt" decided to "adjust" the first amendment?
This could spiral out of control very easily.
We could very well have an "Iraq-like" situation here.
There's enough people who don't like the Police now!
Why would we want to add another 100 million?
At the point that "the govt" or the police starts trying to seize arms from "The People", they *cease* being "the govt" or the police and Thomas Jefferson is right.
Go ahead, fill out an application!

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 8:38:58 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Just what is a assualt rifle? We have rifles that look cosmeticaly like assualt rifles that are just regular rifles.  In the US you cannot have an automatic weapon unless you are a liscensed dealer. I used to be a liscensed dealer. That is one way around a gun ban. What difference does it make in what type of rifle you hunt with. Screw the bambi huggers. They dont want us killing babbi.We have over 50,000 car deer accidents in Michigan alone every year. This time of year the highway is littered with dead dear. What happens to the people who die in some of these accidents. Are the bambi huggers going to give the deer a high five.  As far as gun ownership goes look at Switzerland. Every home there has a gun. Why worry about the tax on bullets when you can always make your own. As kids we made our own zip guns and small cannons. 



Semi-auto (or God please full)w/ high cap clips(God,let them be 30 rounders).Some fitted with nifty fold out bayonets(French) for stabby activities.

I think the idea is to make the church/school shooters as efficient as possible.

Oh,and hunting.....they make for great hunting rifles......

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/12/2008 8:41:09 AM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 8:41:40 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

What if people started shooting congressmen and senators?

It's just a hunch, but I'm guessing a more efficient and responsive Congress would be one possible outcome.


_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 8:43:15 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney
I am opposed to just any one owning a gun. I was a witness to a violent crime. In high school two young men who had argued earlier in the day both attended a party where one walked up and shot the other not three feet away from myself and a group of friends.
It was horrific. Still is. I realize this is nothing compared to any one who has been in military but it certainly affected me.
And no this kid didn't own this gun it was his fathers and accessible to him.  He also went hunting with his father and brothers. He knew how to use a gun. He wasn't any one any of us ever thought would have used a gun in this way.  He was a stupid kid who let his emotions get the best of him and in the process ruined more than his life. Perhaps Erin I would just like to see more control in place, or more education. And yes my feelings are coloured by this event.
scarlet



Well now I can at least understand where you are coming from. It's honest and makes more sense than coming in here to debate a topic that you quite obviously have little understanding of. But you see scarlet, while I am sorry that you had such an experience, I can not view it as a justification to impose any further restriction or control. For some reason people just get irrational when the word "gun" comes into play. Would it have been any less horrific if that boy would have stabbed that other boy....or run him over with a car? Would you be rallying for support of greater education on the use of cars or knives today? What if he had beat the kids head in with a hammer....certainly that would be considered horrific. Would you be pushing to license all hammer owners and make them take classes? If someone wants to harm someone they will indeed find a way.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be sarcastic. The fact that the kid did such a thing just plain sucks. But you can't hold the rest of the free world accountable for it.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 11/12/2008 8:47:06 AM >


_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to scarlethiney)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 8:44:25 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


The SWAT team usually comes in body armor and always as a team...lotsa luck with that.
 
H.


Hunter, what if they lose1-5 guys at every gun seisure?
This is an assumption not born out by fact.

How long do you think those seizures would last?
Body armor will stop handguns, not a 30-30 doing 2800 ft per sec.
Wrongo...Have you seen the blue ones that extend below your crotch that all the news people use in Iraq?  They will stop a 30-06 at two feet with no body trauma. 


What if "The People" turn on the Police?
Lay seiges to Police stations, burn them down, snipe them when they lure them to false calls. Hang them from trees.
Sounds to me more like late nite TV.


What if people started shooting congressmen and senators?
Add lawyers to that list and you could probably garner a following.

What if "the govt" decided to "adjust" the first amendment?
This could spiral out of control very easily.
We could very well have an "Iraq-like" situation here.
There's enough people who don't like the Police now!
Why would we want to add another 100 million?
At the point that "the govt" or the police starts trying to seize arms from "The People", they *cease* being "the govt" or the police and Thomas Jefferson is right.
Go ahead, fill out an application!



Hunter, easy way around that!
You just do head or throat shots.
Or, a shotgun will take someone's head right off.
And, at that point the Police wouldn't be the hunters they'd become the hunted!
Shit, they'd be outnumbered 2,500 to 1 or whatever the figure might be.
People would surround stations and cut the power and lights.
We'd have anarchey.
Any govt. that would try such a foolhardy thing would be rightfully overthrown. 

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 8:47:13 AM   
UmbraDomina


Posts: 491
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: SE Michigan
Status: offline
   Just in case anyone actually wants to know what a actual assault rifle is or is defined as such by law.

The term "assault weapon" in the context of civilian rifles has been attributed to gun-control activist Josh Sugarmann. Assault weapon refers to semi-automatic firearms (that is, firearms that, when fired, automatically extract the spent casing and load the next round into the chamber, ready to fire again) that were developed from earlier fully-automatic weapons. By former U.S. law the legal term assault weapon included certain specific semi-automatic firearm models by name (e.g., Colt AR-15, H&K G36E, TEC-9, all AK-47s, and Uzis) and other semi-automatic firearms because they possess a minimum set of features from the following list of features:
Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:



Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:


  • Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
  • Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or silencer
  • Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
  • Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
  • A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm


Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:


  • Folding or telescoping stock
  • Pistol grip
  • Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
  • Detachable magazine

The earlier term assault rifle, refers to rifles that are select-fire (that is, rifles that are capable of either semi-automatic or fully-automatic fire), firing intermediate-power rounds (such as the 5.56 x 45 mm NATO, or 7.62 x 39 mm), which along with fully automatic pistols, provided the pre-cursor for the term "assault weapon."
(Fully automatic, such as describing a machine gun, means that a firearm can fire multiple rounds with a single pull of the trigger and will continue to fire as long as the trigger is depressed and ammunition remains in the magazine. In contrast, the term assault weapon as used in civilian and U.S. legal usage refers to a semi-automatic weapon that fires one shot for each trigger pull, the same as any other semi-automatic hunting rifle, or semi-automatic household handgun, all of which automatically load another round of ammunition that can be fired with each subsequent trigger pull until the attached magazine is empty. Note: a double-action revolver also fires one shot for each trigger pull but is not considered "semi-automatic" since the force of pulling the trigger brings the next round ready rather than the recoil of the last cartridge.)

Provisions of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban
The Federal Assault Weapons Ban was only a small part (title XI, subtitle A) of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act.
The act created a definition of "assault weapons" and subjected firearms that met that definition to regulation. Nineteen models of firearms were defined by name as being "assault weapons". Various semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns were classified as "assault weapons" due to having various combinations of features.
The act addressed only semi-automatic firearms, that is, firearms that fire one shot each time the trigger is pulled. Neither the AWB nor its expiration changed the legal status of fully automatic firearms, which fire more than one round with a single trigger-pull; these had long been regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934.
The act separately defined and banned "large capacity ammunition feeding devices", which generally applied to magazines or other ammunition feeding devices with capacities of greater than an arbitrary number of rounds and which up to the time of the act had been considered normal or factory magazines. These ammunition feeding devices were also referred to in the media and popular culture as "high capacity magazines or feeding devices." Depending on the locality, the cutoff between a "normal" capacity and "high" capacity magazine was 3, 7, 10, 15, or 20 rounds. The now defunct federal ban set the limit at 10 rounds.
During the period in which the AWB was in effect, it was illegal to manufacture any firearm that met the law's definition of an "assault weapon" or "large capacity ammunition feeding device", except for export or for sale to a government or law enforcement agency. Possession of illegally imported or manufactured firearms was outlawed as well, but the law did not ban the possession or sale of pre-existing "assault weapons" or previously factory standard magazines which had been legally redefined as "large capacity ammunition feeding devices". This provision for "pre-ban" weapons created a higher price point in the market for such items, which lasted until the ban's sunset.

_____________________________

Alexandra ~

~~ And I will show you something different from either your shadow at morning striding behind you Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you; I will show you fear in a handful of dust..... T.S. Elliot ~~

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 9:10:48 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline
Speaking of a hammer. We had a family killed with a guy using a hammer as a weapon. I believed it was the daughters boyfriend who did it. I know a guy who had his head bashed in with a brick. Should we dry up the lakes because people have used them to drown their victims. Wait don't forget fire. How about banning tornadoes or Hurricanes.

(in reply to UmbraDomina)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 9:13:25 AM   
UmbraDomina


Posts: 491
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: SE Michigan
Status: offline
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Ray, next you will want to ban S&M toys they are scarey and can hurt or even kill a person, and well you know it's really not important to most people to allow a few to have them.

_____________________________

Alexandra ~

~~ And I will show you something different from either your shadow at morning striding behind you Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you; I will show you fear in a handful of dust..... T.S. Elliot ~~

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 9:22:04 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa
Wow.   I don't know where you live, but the deer must be positively frightening. 


And this type of answer is exactly what makes gun threads so frustrating. How do you try to intelligently debate such a comment?


mistoferin I realize our incredulity at your "need" to own an assault rifle is frustrating. Our trying to understand just "why" you need such a weapon is also frustrating.  I don't think either side is going to agree on this or have an understanding about what motivates someone to want this kind of weapon.
I don't have a problem with your owning one it is your right. I do have a problem with every "Joe" (no pun intended Joe) having one and not being responsible with it. Of course there is no guaruntee that every one who has one will be responsible so that's where I think the problem is for those of us who don't like weapons. Surely you can understand that.

scarlet



We cant garantee that everyone that owns a car will be responsible in spite of having a license either. the fact of the matter is people with permits without a record is not the problem. The criminals who have guns illegally are the problem and they ill continue to be the problem ban or no ban.

After being with a former military man and responsible gun owner, my feelings on the matter changed .Well, i always thought it wasn't a good idea to ban guns so that the only people who had them were the criminals. Fact is most with guns either don't use them, use them for target practice or for hunting. I have always been told that the best gun owners would not use them. If someone broke in to your home you yell out,"I have a gun" first. Then you let them hear the sound of you cocking the gun. With good luck that should be enough. IF not, we do have a right to keep ourselves safe. I have seen these assault weapons. they are just basically a rifle. We are not talking about machine guns here.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to scarlethiney)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/12/2008 9:26:13 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Popeye I do think the majority of people who own guns are responsible. It's the small percentage of people who aren't that worries me.

People are irresponsible with their drinking, with their driving, with their work habits, with whom they fuck, with their credit cards, with their home purchases........

If you're going to worry about other people's irresponsibilities you have your work cut out for you. 


_____________________________



(in reply to scarlethiney)
Profile   Post #: 180
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