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RE: More About Safwords - 11/12/2008 8:52:27 PM   
aravain


Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline 		I have a safeword...

I've used it only once, seriously, and once in a less-than-serious time.

Not having a dominant, though, means that it's not really an issue at the moment :) I would tend to think that no matter what I will always have a safeword... even if it's something random that will just make the dominant go 'What?' and stop and isn't technically a set safeword.

*shrug*

(in reply to littleone35)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: More About Safwords - 11/12/2008 10:51:05 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		I never had one with my former owner. Only once , almost 4 years into the relationship, did I ever feel like if I had one I would use it. I was unable to communicate the distress I was experiencing, and it continued. But I lived and all is well.

When I was to first be with the Dom I am seeing now, he asked if I wanted a safe word. My response was no, that I could just communicate to him if I was experiencing distress. Since he is much milder than my former owner, I really didn't see the need. But the concern wasn't about physical distress, it was about whether I would have an emotional trigger relating to my former owner since our time together was only a month after my release. To ease his own concern, I suggested a word in the event that I could not adequately communicate what was going on. But at this point I doubt I would have cause to use it.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to littleone35)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: More About Safwords - 11/13/2008 8:03:21 AM   
MarksFantasyGirl


Posts: 3660
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline 		Sweets and I haven't actually played like that yet.... (VERY SOON THOUGH I HOPE!!!)

But I really don't think that I will need a safeword... It's not really a matter of trust, but a matter of him being able to "read me"  I mean, if you don't trust the person you are with, why the hell would you let them tie you up, or anything like that?  Just because you shout out some word that has nothing to do with anything, doesn't mean he has to stop...  I don't think that a safeword really has ANYTHING to do with trust...  

Sweets and I can just read each other... I think that comes from being friends for over 20 years before we actually got together (yes, that's kind of funny since I'm only 22, and he's 23... lol)... He was telling me about this guy at his work that was telling him about hooking up with some other chick... He told him "Dude, I have a girlfriend", and the guy told him that I wouldn't have to find out.... he said "You don't understand..... She KNOWS me.... She would be able to tell... She wouldn't even have to talk to me, and she would tell...."  That is the kind of relationship we have... We know each other inside and out.... even when we are apart, and I'm upset and crying myself to sleep, he has trouble sleeping... I think that when we "play" it will be the same way.... he knows me... inside and out... and I think that it would be ok.... But we might have one just in case though.... the color thing is a good idea...

_____________________________

--Fannie
AKA Savage's Fantasy
AKA Girl Dave
AKA Resident Flirt
AKA Sexy Hawt Woman

~*~Happily and proudly collared by my best friend~*~

Quitcher bitchen, and get out of the kitchen! ~Harry {3rdRock}

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: More About Safwords - 11/13/2008 8:10:41 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The problem is that people are under the false idea that safewords have anything to do with trust.

Mistakes happen, cramps happen, flashbacks happen, migraines happen, bad moods happen- scenes sometimes need to be stopped or paused for awhile for no reason other than "something unexpected and unable to be anticipated happened."

And when they do happen, the liklihood you are going to remember what word you are supposed to yell in that situation is slim. You will be distracted by whats going on and probably forget just about everything.

I do not use safewords for that reason, I never trust that some unrelated word will actually be remembered even if it is needed. I can read Fox well, and I know the difference between No please which means keep going and NO which means stop. He has neede me to stop a time or two and I have, but when I asked him right then what was wrong, he was unable to speak much. Problem #2 with them, if you are unable to speak (too much pain, gagged, so on) then how does a Dominant hear it?

I prefer to know my pet well enough to read his reactions and his body language rather than trust him to rely on verbal language under stress.

DV 

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: More About Safwords - 11/13/2008 8:37:55 AM   
switchtosub


Posts: 28
Joined: 5/11/2008
Status: offline 		For me, safewords are a LOT about trust. I never needed one with Mistress, in fact, I was always begging her for more. But I had a Master once who used to say "This isn't about your limits, this is about what I want," who consistently ignored my hard limits, and not in a good way. No trust, lots of safeword usage.

When you're in subspace, and you're completely nonverbal, a gesture is a good compromise. I ran into that once recently when I couldn't verbalize and ended up with a seizure from too much electrostim (I'm a clinical professional so I know seizures). I couldn't walk or drive for hours. It was after that I went to gestures instead of words. These days I'm just trying to be more intelligent about my choice of partners.

_____________________________

"I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing astroturf and the designated hitter. And I believe in long, slow, deep, wet, soft kisses that last for three days." ~"Crash" Davis (Kevin Costner) Bull Durham

(in reply to SingleRarity)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: More About Safwords - 11/13/2008 9:08:13 AM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline 		I don't mean to sound harsh, switchtosub, but I really do hope you put some thought into choosing your partners better.  Safewords won't help you if the dom isn't interested in listening to them (your first example who didn't care what your limits were) or if you're seizing due to overstimulation with electric play.  I'd have thought the dom would have stopped when he realized something was amiss as you seized and that a safe word or gesture wouldn't have been needed? 

(in reply to switchtosub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: More About Safwords - 11/13/2008 11:21:49 AM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline 		We have never used safewords. I was a little worried when we first met and Master insisted that he would not use one. He sat and explained why. He feels that for some Masters the knowledge that there is a safeword in place means that they rush in full on because they know the sub will use the safeword when it gets too much. They do not necessarily take notice of the sub during the play. Not having a safeword encourages a Master to take notice of the subs reactions.

Only once have I come close to the point of having enough and would have considered using a safeword if I had one. It was at this point that he stopped. When I told him later how close I was he said "I know I was watching you".

In some cases a safeword can be more dangerous than useful. Too much trust can be put in them from both sides.

(in reply to mc1234)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: More About Safwords - 11/13/2008 1:52:32 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		I don't do simulated non-consent scenes, and the folks who bottom to me and s-types who play with me learn pretty quickly that if they say "stop", "no", "don't" or anything like that, I stop. If they don't want me to stop, then they don't withdraw consent. It's pretty clear-cut for us. It's foggier for some of our other members who -do- play with simulated non-consent, and they -do- use safewords during those scenes, which makes sense.

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to SingleRarity)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: More About Safwords - 11/13/2008 3:53:57 PM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline 		It's actually kind of interesting how safe words and things like tapping three times or simple verbal communication, are the same things anybody does in other types/forms of rough play or sports even.   This just ain't a BDSM exclusive thing.

Actually the first safeword that was ever used between me and a play partner was the ever so classic "Time Out".  Not very hard to understand the meaning of that one.   Tapping three times quickly is another one of those things.  Been doing this since I was a kid wrestling around and rough housing.

All else fails, simply somebody opening their mouth and saying "I have a cramp in my foot" that will quickly draw attention to what is going wrong at the time.  A little more informative compared to some off the wall safeword.

Again this is all stuff that carried over from stuff I did as a kid, into teenage years right into kinky BDSM play.

I don't know, a lot of this seems like it should be a bit of a no-brainer or common sense for a lot of people to figure out.   What forms of communication works best.  Also that whoever is topping should be alert and be able to notice physical changes, and effects in their partner as well.  Can people really be so oblivious to these things?

I read a lot of things on the message board, and wonder and question what kind of childhood experiences or life experiences people have had in general.   I often wonder if they were not paying to attention to other kids and such while growing up as well.   Even watching things such as people wrestling or whatever else.  Just some basic safety protocols and rules of engagement.

Perhaps it's just the fact that I'm a guy and well.. I grew up rough housing around with other guys doing our guy things.  I know that risks sounding a little bit sexist, but come on.   The use of safewords, tapping three times, opening the mouth and verbal expressing the need to stop, or the ability to make yourself aware of the physical condition of another person really ain't that hard, or is it?

I don't think enough people associate the skills and things they already know in the so called Vanilla world to BDSM land at times.

(in reply to aravain)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: More About Safwords - 11/13/2008 5:23:31 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		Well a safe word/gesture is going to be something mandatory for me .... and it has nothing to do with trust
but everything to do with medical problems


twice I have been sitting in the hospital  having a cardiac episode ..once with a team of doctors and nurses standing watching me and another with a cardiologist  watching and talking to me  and I had to tell them  I was having an episode ...they could not tell from watching me and had to get me hooked up to an ECG and heart monitor to confirm.. if they the medical experts can't see it happening  facing me ..then I sure as heck cannot expect a dom to notice.....I can tell because I start feeling a band of tightness across my chest and feel the speeding up of heavy heart beating  and the increased difficulty breathing
.. so I need to be able to have a means to communicate something is wrong at the early onset  so I can start doing an emergency carotid massage on myself  to try and slow the heart rate if that fails then a trip is needed to the nearest ER to have meds injected into me to slow the rate or the electric paddles used to reset my hearts rythm. 


_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to WhiplashSmile2)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: More About Safwords - 11/13/2008 5:30:55 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: azropedntied

I still have the traffic lights in my head as communications words green = all is great thanks for asking Yellow = ok ok give me just one moment please RED = stop now


I agree with aropedntied. The Stop light safe words are a great way to have a safe word that is easy to remember for both the Dom(me) and the sub.

This type of system worked very well for me when I was younger and meeting a lot of different Dommes. Now the people I play with know me well enough to read my body langauge and I have not needed a safeword in a long time. But I do think it is still a good think to have. And especially for those who delve deeper into some of the BDSM aspects.

_____________________________

Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

(in reply to azropedntied)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: More About Safwords - 11/13/2008 6:58:45 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I will add that I have one and have no real intention of using it.  I don't think I will ever need it and, if I do, it is not going to be because my partner is not paying attention to every detail and watching over me.  If I don't think a person will do that, I don't play.  If ever I am in a casual play situation, I know he will not choose people that cannot be trusted.  A protective dominant is much better than a means of protection.

lovingpet

(in reply to mummyman321)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: More About Safwords - 11/14/2008 4:35:38 AM   
Zechriel


Posts: 308
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Good morning!
  Oh yes, absolutely still have mine but it is not discussed as much as it was in the beginning. You know, it was always reminded to me about what my word was but now it is not, just understood that it is there. Which is really nice because things do change. I have vaginal atrophy which means that alot of times, i feel like i have yeast infection but i dont. And when it hurts, I cannot be touched there too roughly, but a little touching is fine, it just depends. Knowing that I can use my word if the pain begins helps because it is not pain that will go away after a few hours or days but can last for weeks. It also helps me to estbalish my trust that if I do use it, he will listen. If he didn't then we would have a huge problem and there goes my trust. Hope that helps!
Love,
Zechriel 


_____________________________

Sir HighlanderME's little z

(in reply to SingleRarity)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: More About Safwords - 11/14/2008 5:06:50 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I wish that the whole ridiculous concept of safewords would just die.....

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Zechriel)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: More About Safwords - 11/14/2008 6:33:48 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I wish that the whole ridiculous concept of safewords would just die.....

LOL sadly, that is one wish that will probably never come to fruition but like you, it is also one that I too wish for.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: More About Safwords - 11/14/2008 7:29:07 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I wish that the whole ridiculous concept of safewords would just die.....


I can understand individual choices not to -use- one, or not to -give- one, but I don't understand the whole issue with wanting to control -other peoples'- choices by eliminating options.

Safewords are irrelevant to me. I don't need them, because regular communication works just great in the kind of scenes that I do, and either of us could stop a scene for any reason on a moment's notice. However, a couple of the members of our household these days enjoy scenes that use resistance/denial... without a safeword, the top might not know the difference between a 'no' that is intended for versimilitude in the scene and a 'no' indicating that something is wrong. For them, a safeword makes complete sense, and taking that option away would either limit their capacity to enjoy WIITTD or increase the risk of their play... so even though I don't use them, I -do- see a point to folks having them if it makes their time together more comfortable for everyone involved.


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: More About Safwords - 11/14/2008 7:34:05 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		No safewords in my world. They don't apply.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to littleone35)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: More About Safwords - 11/14/2008 7:53:42 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I've been through this particular issue on these very boards at least a hundred times and to be honest with you....I just don't have the energy today.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: More About Safwords - 11/14/2008 8:08:53 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I wish that the whole ridiculous concept of safewords would just die.....


I can understand individual choices not to -use- one, or not to -give- one, but I don't understand the whole issue with wanting to control -other peoples'- choices by eliminating options.

Safewords are irrelevant to me. I don't need them, because regular communication works just great in the kind of scenes that I do, and either of us could stop a scene for any reason on a moment's notice. However, a couple of the members of our household these days enjoy scenes that use resistance/denial... without a safeword, the top might not know the difference between a 'no' that is intended for versimilitude in the scene and a 'no' indicating that something is wrong. For them, a safeword makes complete sense, and taking that option away would either limit their capacity to enjoy WIITTD or increase the risk of their play... so even though I don't use them, I -do- see a point to folks having them if it makes their time together more comfortable for everyone involved.


Mistoferin is much better at explaining this than I ever could be, but, let me explain why I totally agree with her about the ‘concept’ of safe words.

Please understand that the following is hypothetical only

A young lady or man comes to you asking for your help in exploring BDSM, and the dynamics of a M/s or D/s relationship. You decide to take the time to give this person reliable, helpful advice and expertise. Things move along and they meet someone who they are very interested in; meet in a public place the first time and decide that their next visit will include a bit of ‘play’.

When asked for advice about how they should proceed…ie safety precautions, etc…you explain to them what you feel they should ‘require’, advice that includes the use of a safe word. You explain to them what a safe word is and why one should be used; they agree with you and negotiate this with the person who they are going to meet with.

During the meet, the top/dominant gets a bit carried away and the bottom/submissive uses the safe word that was agreed upon. It is ignored and the bottom/submissive comes away from the meeting feeling betrayed, hurt, unsure what they did wrong…or worse, severely hurt or damaged in some way.

Now granted, 98% of those out there CAN be trusted to adhere to the safe word that is agreed upon and to the conditions that are set up before hand…but how do you explain to someone who has been told repeatedly that a safe word stops play…how do you explain to them that sometimes…sometimes….a safe word will do them no good.

That is why I wish that the whole concept of safe words…and the unreliable trust that so many put into them…would just go away. It has nothing to do with wanting to take away the option, and everything to do with trying to let others  know that placing your life in the hands of a 'word' or 'certain action' is no substitute for good, reliable communication and common sense.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: More About Safwords - 11/14/2008 8:14:29 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		He reads my body language. However I do have a safe gesture that tells him if I have a problem. Being as I'm frequently tied up, gagged and blindfolded he's missing a lot of nonverbal cues. If I'm in great distress he still can tell, but the gesture is used so he'll know to remove the gag. At which point I tell him I have a cramp, or a wrist is going numb.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to SingleRarity)
Profile   Post #: 40
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