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RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 7:47:20 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The only thing contributing to "his greatness" is revisionist history.Hitler was a psychotic thug who through a perfect storm of events was ,to the horror of untold millions, able to grab the levers of an industrial nation.Nothing more,nothing less.

Utter nonsense, Mike. The man was very good at making shit happen. To deny the truth of him is to not take the bloody lessons of 60 million lives.

The rules now demand that I say the scene in Little Nicky, where Satan shoves a pineapple up Hitler's ass at regular intervals is insufficient.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 41

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 7:53:24 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

In your opinion, he met the definition of being "a great leader".

        I'm sort of with Kitten on this (doesn't happen often, does it, Love?) It would be pointless and counterproductive to pretend that Hitler was not an extremely effective leader, but choosing the word "great," is a matter of opinion I don't share.

And yet you jumped all over my post.Care to explain ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 42

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 7:58:03 PM

candystripper

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I am personally very glad they are banning cig. smoking from more and more public buildings.

I am trying to figure out what's the point about they are legal and heavily taxed, so is alcohol, legal and heavily taxed, and you are not allowed to drink legally in many public areas and places that sell same have to be licensed to do so. So the excuse its legal and you pay taxes on it -- is not a reason you should be able to smoke where and when you choose. There are many legal products you are not allowed to use wherever and whenever you wish.

Smoking goes beyond the smoker's personal space and starts invading others personal space. Think of it this way, as an example, would you like it if all the people who walked with hot coffee continuously allowed it to spill out and splash on everyone passing them? Or if people decided to continuously throw their liquids in the air so it rained down all over you all the time, causing it to stain your clothes or burn your skin (hot drinks) or make your clothes smell for the rest of the day because of some smelly concoction someone was drinking? Its the same concept. Its about what someone is doing that is invading your personal space with what they are doing. Smokers may think its no big deal because they already stink and live with the effects of smoking. But those who don't smoke may not wish to stink of smoke or have trouble breathing etc.

angel

Well, goody for you. *I* am a member of the public as well. How's about if'n you don't wanna smell like smoke you take a damned bath and wash your clothes?

I bet you do stuff I'd find annoying as hell -- should I come run over you?

candystripper

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 43

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 7:59:37 PM

FatDomDaddy

Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I am personally very glad they are banning cig. smoking from more and more public buildings.

I am trying to figure out what's the point about they are legal and heavily taxed, so is alcohol, legal and heavily taxed, and you are not allowed to drink legally in many public areas and places that sell same have to be licensed to do so. So the excuse its legal and you pay taxes on it -- is not a reason you should be able to smoke where and when you choose. There are many legal products you are not allowed to use wherever and whenever you wish.

I agree pretty much but...

One should be able to light up in a BAR!

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 44

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:02:23 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
And yet you jumped all over my post.Care to explain ?

Kitten denied that the word great" was applicable and appropriate. You denied he was a leader. Quite a difference.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 45

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:07:09 PM

Thunderbird56

Posts: 87
Joined: 11/19/2005
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Ok folks, first of all, the simple truth is that as a free, sovereign, individual, what you think, what you say, what you wear, what you watch, what you read, what you eat, drink, put in your body, or smoke is NOBODY'S business but yours. Period. End of story.
Secondly, despite the fact that it *is* being done, the government has no legitimate authority regulating businesses by allowing or disallowing what LEGAL activities a business owner can or cannot permit in his establishment. It's none of the government's business how a business owner chooses to run *his* business.
Thirdly, no one is FORCED to work in any business. If a bartender, waiter, bouncer, cook, or anyone else, has a problem with any policies that the *owner* stipulates, guess what? They don't have to work there! And YOU as a customer or patron don't have to eat, drink or shop there! It really is very simple when you look at things from the perspective of *Freedom First* for everybody.
Why should *some* people get *everything* they want at the expense of other people's choices? Let the free market make the choices and at least everybody gets *some* of what they want: the business owner gets to run his business they way he thinks is best for him and his customers; if there is money to be made by doing so, you can bet that non-smoking AND smoking bars, restaurants, and stores will be open to serve both types of people.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 46

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:09:05 PM

candystripper

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O, my personal little 'just bite me' was the rule against smoking in the Mall. Me and my girlfriends crawled the Mall -- that was our 'sport'. Except for my best friend, we all smoked. Not being allowed to sit in the food court and have a soda and a cigartte, so's to go over what we had bought and chat a bit -- that was a big ole f**k-you-very-much.

They didn't disallow smoking in bars here in Cleveland until just recently. Who the f**k doesn't smoke when they drink, for Gawd's sake? I dont do it because I know it puts the bar owner in a bad position, cross-wise with the law, but do you really think you can call 911 in Cleveland because s'one is f**king smoking? Hell, we're lucky if they show up at home invasions. There are only about 5 cops left on the payroll.

candystripper

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 47

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:23:27 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thunderbird56

Ok folks, first of all, the simple truth is that as a free, sovereign, individual, what you think, what you say, what you wear, what you watch, what you read, what you eat, drink, put in your body, or smoke is NOBODY'S business but yours. Period. End of story.
Secondly, despite the fact that it *is* being done, the government has no legitimate authority regulating businesses by allowing or disallowing what LEGAL activities a business owner can or cannot permit in his establishment. It's none of the government's business how a business owner chooses to run *his* business.
Thirdly, no one is FORCED to work in any business. If a bartender, waiter, bouncer, cook, or anyone else, has a problem with any policies that the *owner* stipulates, guess what? They don't have to work there! And YOU as a customer or patron don't have to eat, drink or shop there! It really is very simple when you look at things from the perspective of *Freedom First* for everybody.
Why should *some* people get *everything* they want at the expense of other people's choices? Let the free market make the choices and at least everybody gets *some* of what they want: the business owner gets to run his business they way he thinks is best for him and his customers; if there is money to be made by doing so, you can bet that non-smoking AND smoking bars, restaurants, and stores will be open to serve both types of people.

And I must say that I absolutely agree with Tbird56 here. My objection lies in the crossing of a very important boundary by allowing such a government regulation to be insinuated into a private business. Tobacco is a legal substance and it should be up to the private business owner whether or not s/he wishes to permit that behavior in their establishment.
We are becoming very inured to things like this and this is preparing the way to allow government more and more power to make our choices for and take our freedoms from us. It is happening all around us every single day.
So perhaps we should think about the cleverness of Hitler and the effectiveness of Hitler. Beginning with something like tobacco may have paved the way to feeling that a particular government knows best, so you should turn in your guns and you should hate Jews, etc. I have read that HItler was a very charismatic man. I am sure that added to his effectiveness as a leader, evil as he was.
That is not what this country is supposed to be about.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 11/12/2008 8:24:30 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to Thunderbird56)

Post #: 48

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:31:54 PM

Racquelle

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Joined: 4/21/2008
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Right, and if you as a business owner want to have asbestos wall boards, and not make any of your employees wash the feces off their hands before they prepare food - fuck all those people who think public health is a bigger concern than "free market". Those employees who don't want to be maimed by equipment that is unsafe - they are just whiners, and interfering in your right to run a business however you like it. And to hell with those people who want rest breaks and overtime pay. What a bunch of assholes.

No one is forced to work any one place, true, but most people do have to work SOME place. Bars and restaurants, and airplane cabins are SOME places, and those SOME places should no more be allowed to needlessly endanger the health of employees than sausage factories and construction sites. There is nothing about serving food or assisting passengers that means one must accept exposure to toxins.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 49

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:41:17 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Wonder where they work now, and it was not any of those I worked with. Shame that a few hurt others by making the industry suffer in some areas. Glad it has not hit Georgia, but then again I think the politicians realized it would hurt the club business and that would be tax dollars not being used for the public projects.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf...I was in the club business for a while and never heard a bartender or wait staff complain about cig in a bar or club.
You know, except for the ones who circulated the petitions, and filed the lawsuits and stuff.

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Post #: 50

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:42:29 PM

Racquelle

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Joined: 4/21/2008
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Doesn't seem to have hurt business here. More clubs now than there were.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 51

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:46:31 PM

OrionTheWolf

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If the public really wanted an establishment non-smoking, then I should be able to open a non-smoking establishment and it would be immediately successful. There are plenty of non-smoking places to work, and I would have to find the stats but in many of the states that banned smoking in bars, it was in the high 80% range of non-smoking businesses that people could find a job at.

Next they will outlaw smoking in cigar stores. Wait, they already did that in some states.

BTW, your comparison to asbestos and such is ludicrous. Kind of like comparing a butter knife to a sword.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

Right, and if you as a business owner want to have asbestos wall boards, and not make any of your employees wash the feces off their hands before they prepare food - fuck all those people who think public health is a bigger concern than "free market". Those employees who don't want to be maimed by equipment that is unsafe - they are just whiners, and interfering in your right to run a business however you like it. And to hell with those people who want rest breaks and overtime pay. What a bunch of assholes.

No one is forced to work any one place, true, but most people do have to work SOME place. Bars and restaurants, and airplane cabins are SOME places, and those SOME places should no more be allowed to needlessly endanger the health of employees than sausage factories and construction sites. There is nothing about serving food or assisting passengers that means one must accept exposure to toxins.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Racquelle)

Post #: 52

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:48:43 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

*Sigh*
In fact, I just wrote on another thread that certain health and safety regulations are always necessary as a society grows. So don't even go there with Me. It is just another example of how extreme and passionate the examples become to the point of ridiculousness.
However, taking away the freedom to publicly state that you run an establishment that allows smoking is wrong. It is a legal activity and the product is legally sold, after all.
It is the first of a number of steps to take power over many other areas of your life. Once again it is a matter of stating subtextually that people will not make reasonable decisions if there isn't a law forcing them to do so.
Individuals always have the choice whether or not to enter and patronize that establishment. And the business has the choice to make their personal assessment of what policy might make their business the most profitable without government interference.
I do not consider a choice to smoke or not to smoke, to be around it or not to be around it to be an issue that needs governemnt intervention. I have no problem with laws about smoking in public places.
A private business, in My opinion, is not a public place.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 11/12/2008 8:53:21 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to Racquelle)

Post #: 53

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:54:06 PM

OrionTheWolf

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If here is California, then your statement is odd compared to real life comments made by many bartenders, wait staff an owners when the 1998 ban went into effect. Also, there are several studies done over a 3 year period, from 1999 to 2002, that show either very little negative sales to a minor increase in sales over that period, which proponents point to as proof but the sad fact is that bars should have experienced about a 12% increase just to have the average increase that other bars experienced.

This does not even include the demise and selling of the very small neighborhood pubs.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Racquelle)

Post #: 54

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:54:16 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
And yet you jumped all over my post.Care to explain ?

Kitten denied that the word great" was applicable and appropriate. You denied he was a leader. Quite a difference.

Reread my post Rich,never used the word "leader"in denial or otherwise....simply objected to the characterization of great.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 55

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:56:28 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~

Smoking is no more a right than driving a car is, something that is exceedingly dangerous and a person's reckless behavior, or simple inability, can kill or ruin the lives of innocents. If we really want to ban things that are dangerous to people other than the person specifically engaging the activity, we simply have to outlaw cars and get better public transit.

Except that isn't popular so it won't be done. Condemning and raising a fuss about smoking is. Personally I think we do have the right to smoke (until the law specifically says we don't) as our rights were set up to include things not specifically mentioned. Like shaving our legs or wearings scarves. Or committing sucide. Other people can't help us do it, but we are actually allowed to kill ourselves via gun, knife, *insert your favorite here* or refusing life-saving care and medicine.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 11/12/2008 8:58:29 PM >

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(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 56

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 8:59:03 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

There are plenty of establishments who cater to smokers,if it`s really all that important.

I love going to restaurants and clubs to see music knowing I won`t wreak and wake up the next day w/ a sore throat.

I know smokers who like the new law.They like breathing fresh air too.Who would`a thought?

Eventually the whiners,like most smokers, will die out and non-smoking laws won`t seen like such a big deal.

Nice nazi reference FDD.You`re all class.

_____________________________

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(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 57

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 9:08:56 PM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

Right, and if you as a business owner want to have asbestos wall boards, and not make any of your employees wash the feces off their hands before they prepare food - fuck all those people who think public health is a bigger concern than "free market". Those employees who don't want to be maimed by equipment that is unsafe - they are just whiners, and interfering in your right to run a business however you like it. And to hell with those people who want rest breaks and overtime pay. What a bunch of assholes.

No one is forced to work any one place, true, but most people do have to work SOME place. Bars and restaurants, and airplane cabins are SOME places, and those SOME places should no more be allowed to needlessly endanger the health of employees than sausage factories and construction sites. There is nothing about serving food or assisting passengers that means one must accept exposure to toxins.

Humm. Well, actually, asbestos is an excellent fire-retardent and is not a health hazard so long as it is not disturbed, like ripping it out of a building. Some folks have such jobs, yanno, Racquelle. I worked in a building undergoing asbestos removal. Quite a thing to watch the guys come in -- protective gear, my ass.

Other folks have jobs like welders and machinists. They breathe in heavy metals and are very likely to die an early death from cancer, respiratory failure or other disease.

I could go on, but I think you take my point.

candystripper

(in reply to Racquelle)

Post #: 58

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 9:12:05 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

Reread your own post, Mike, and I'm done with this tangent.

Most of the bars I visit have a smoking patio of some sort, the best have heating/cooling elements and table service out there. Some are done so well, you hardly realize you are technically outside.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 59

RE: Anti Smoking... Nazis? - 11/12/2008 9:15:44 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

Smoking is a health hazard.

This is what bothers me the most.

If Tobacco is such a hazard, then why are we allowing it to be produced and then taxing it so high?

To drastic?

Then why do we allow it sold by the pack, the can, the pouch or singular cigars?

If it is so hazardous, why not tax it at $10 a pack or $20 or $50 a pack? Why can we walk into any grocery, drug, liquor, 7-day, store or gas station and buy it?

For historic and economic reasons.

The simple fact is if the US outlawed tobacco cultivation and import an entire industry would be put out of work which would inevitably result in a great deal of whining and moaning such as we see in this thread from you. It is better to tightly, much more tightly than now, regulate and tax the product as it slowly dies out.

You will of course continue trying to draw parralels between nazis and people who seek only to not be exposed involuntarily to a posionous substance which demonstrates your utter lack of understanding of how rights in the US work.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 11/12/2008 9:16:45 PM >

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 60

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