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Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", then..... - 12/20/2005 9:30:45 AM   
DelRey


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline 		This OP was inspired by reading the 129,482nd post I have read titled, "SEEKING INFORMATION ON TRAINING MY SUB" I thought this deserved it's own thread.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I read more frustrations in women’s profiles and on the message board about men writing to them. Sometimes I wonder how many good contacts they pass on because they are so distressed in reading the mail from the Nutzo’s.

Why is it new men can't allow the big head to over rule the little guy when they first find this site? Moreover most new men to this site are so overwhelmed by the kink and the thought of controlling a submissive woman they over look the training one must go through. It is important, for a new D/Master to get himself trained first, then training his sub will come more natural. The Kink is easy, it is only when you understanding your heart and the heart, emotions as well as the desires of your sub that is most important. When you have a true D/s connection with your sub as a result of the proper control of your being and understanding her, your sub will respond to high levels that dreams are made of, rather than just dropping orders on her.

Sounds remedial or even cliché I know, but the truth is this lifestyle is NOT a "do this", "do that" then you "have it" program. It is extremely mental and psychological which requires intense training of the Dom/Master. The other bad news, D/Master training is on going and continual it never ends… Anything less and they will be just another "passer-by" and another "newbie-casualty" and worse leave a wake of pissed off people. It is a long process and a big responsibility that many people new in the lifestyle overlook because of the lust for the new kink.

Maybe there needs to be a 2nd level of this community that is only admissible upon referrals. I duno sounds drastic, on one hand people living the life style are serious on the other hand who would we bitch about and laugh at ?

del Rey


< Message edited by DelRey -- 12/20/2005 9:37:09 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 9:41:07 AM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		this is an all too common problem that people on both side of the bench face, and alot of it comes back in my mind to a general lack of mentoring. That's why here where I am, I've tried working to build up the local TNG to help people new to the lifestyle in finding a mentor and actually finding and Mastering themselves before ever thinking of doing so to another. To me that concept is reckless, foolish, and disrespectful to the life and to your potential other. Turning a lover into the victim of ignorance and arrogance is rarely the prudent course of action to lead you to enlightenment.

(in reply to DelRey)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 9:43:23 AM   
DelRey


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: afmvdp

this is an all too common problem that people on both side of the bench face, and alot of it comes back in my mind to a general lack of mentoring. That's why here where I am, I've tried working to build up the local TNG to help people new to the lifestyle in finding a mentor and actually finding and Mastering themselves before ever thinking of doing so to another. To me that concept is reckless, foolish, and disrespectful to the life and to your potential other. Turning a lover into the victim of ignorance and arrogance is rarely the prudent course of action to lead you to enlightenment.


Uuhhhh..... I think he is agreeing with me....
lol

< Message edited by DelRey -- 12/20/2005 9:45:09 AM >

(in reply to afmvdp)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 9:48:00 AM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		close enough ;)

(in reply to DelRey)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 10:48:03 AM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline 		Come on DelRey; don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

Seriously, I think you make a valid point. The problem is that not everyone has the ability to get this training. In my area there is no place (that I can find) that even comes close to the things I've heard about in the 'big cities'. Some of us have had to listen, read and learn as much as we can to be able to get where we are.

The other problem is that most guys (including me!) don't want to wait to complete our training before we get a Sub. We want a woman NOW! We have desires and needs and want some satisfaction. Yeah, we want to do it better and we want to learn but we DON'T want to wait before we get that Sub, so we find one (if they are as lucky as I was) and get started. Then, as we go along, we find that both the Sub and ourselves want to learn more and do more so we come to places like CM to get ideas from people who KNOW more than we do. It would be nice if there was a school we could all attend on weekends for X number of weeks and then when we graduated we'd know all this stuff but that just isn't happening. (At least not here in the great Southwest).

This is one of the main reasons why I feel there is a big difference between a Master/Slave relationship and a Dom/Sub relationship. I think a Master should be someone who IS trained and knowledgeable and IS qualified to train a Slave. A Dom on the otherhand is meerly (?) dominant over the Sub and not a slave trainer. He may teach her the things that HE wants and the way HE wants them, but that's not the same (I think) as trying to train a Slave.

Disclaimer: I use the male Dom/female Sub arrangement here because that is what I prefer and does not mean to imply that this is the only way it can or should be done.

_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to DelRey)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 11:00:51 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: afmvdp

this is an all too common problem that people on both side of the bench face, and alot of it comes back in my mind to a general lack of mentoring. That's why here where I am, I've tried working to build up the local TNG to help people new to the lifestyle in finding a mentor and actually finding and Mastering themselves before ever thinking of doing so to another. To me that concept is reckless, foolish, and disrespectful to the life and to your potential other. Turning a lover into the victim of ignorance and arrogance is rarely the prudent course of action to lead you to enlightenment.


People don't *need* mentors if they have a built-in, natural, instinctive desire to dominate. No one taught me how to get into a man's head and seduce him and balance my need for submission with his fears and desires. People with dominant tendencies are perfectly capable of making their desires/fantasies a reality with a willing partner and a grasp of safety and common sense. It doesn't have to be rocket science. Even without the Internet, without books, and without BDSM groups or 'mentors' there are people all over the world engaging in consensual power exchange in their relationships.

Mentors are fantastic for the kinds of people that like that sort of relationship and like to learn that way. But it isn't a necessity.

This has nothing to do with asking for advice on technique, communication problems, finding partners, etc. -- but some people are drawn into BDSM without any "instinct" desire (natural desire) for dominance or submission combined with no real experience -- and those are the ones that get impatient and demanding and frustrated.

My desire to dominate men is what shaped my style and technique -- there was never any question of "how do I dominate my man?" it was "how do I NOT dominate my man - it's my natural way of relating on a physical, sexual level."

People can teach you technique and processes 'til the cows come home. They can't teach you to have a fire in your belly for dominance and submission that guides you and feeds your inspiration.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to afmvdp)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 11:01:22 AM   
AbstractSavant


Posts: 149
Joined: 6/5/2005
Status: offline 		My main problem is that people seem to assume that there is only ONE WAY to do this BDSM thing.

No one realizes that BDSM and the way it is expressed are as infinite and varied as vanilla style couplings.

(in reply to OscarHargraves)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 11:06:50 AM   
MasterHyde


Posts: 127
Joined: 4/10/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DelRey

Maybe there needs to be a 2nd level of this community that is only admissible upon referrals. I duno sounds drastic, on one hand people living the life style are serious on the other hand who would we bitch about and laugh at?


From what I hear. that's how the community functioned before the Internet came along. The "scene" was made of small, somewhat exclusive groups and admittance into these groups was based on gaining the acceptance of the members. I've heard many stories about people "earning their leathers." You didn't just walk into a munch, or sign up for a mailing list, and become a member.

I think groups like this still exist. They're not so much formal organizations, though. They are small circles of friends. When they hold a play party, they invite people they know and respect. They don't advertise it on a website and count its success by how many tickets were sold.



_____________________________

Master Hyde
A self-righteous, poly, dominant, possessive control freak with strong paternal tendencies and a sadistic inner child

(in reply to DelRey)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 11:12:31 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		my Master is as fresh in this as i am, but we foud one another and is learing as we go. Ofcourse if we found somone to teatch us that be wonderful.

(in reply to MasterHyde)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 11:16:20 AM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		And see that is a BIG part of the issue... You want immediate satisfaction without the ability to handle it. It doesn't matter that you just want a woman now if you are going to be unable to provide them with what it is that they are looking for or even more problematic, end up accidently emotional or potentially even physically or fatally hurting someone because of said inabilities and a genuine lack of respect for what it is that you are entering into.

And btw, a quick search of Albuquerque BDSM pulls up numerous resources to local related discussion groups and your local PEP chapter, all of which would be able to point you in the right path towards getting proper training. All it takes is the desire for knowledge to find yourself on the right path.

(in reply to OscarHargraves)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 11:44:01 AM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

Maybe there needs to be a 2nd level of this community that is only admissible upon referrals.


M. DelRay-

there is- actually there are many such groups, invite or referal based, in every area of the globe, and more levels than just two.

The internet bears as much relation to SM as dancing does to architecture. In any local scene, there will be groups that host their own parties, share info, generally socialise amoung themselves. You be more likely to see a group of them out to dinner than waiting for a station to clear in the local dungeon, or going to a boatshow than attending the local lecture group.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to DelRey)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 12:19:48 PM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

People don't *need* mentors if they have a built-in, natural, instinctive desire to dominate. No one taught me how to get into a man's head and seduce him and balance my need for submission with his fears and desires. People with dominant tendencies are perfectly capable of making their desires/fantasies a reality with a willing partner and a grasp of safety and common sense. It doesn't have to be rocket science. Even without the Internet, without books, and without BDSM groups or 'mentors' there are people all over the world engaging in consensual power exchange in their relationships.

Mentors are fantastic for the kinds of people that like that sort of relationship and like to learn that way. But it isn't a necessity.

This has nothing to do with asking for advice on technique, communication problems, finding partners, etc. -- but some people are drawn into BDSM without any "instinct" desire (natural desire) for dominance or submission combined with no real experience -- and those are the ones that get impatient and demanding and frustrated.

My desire to dominate men is what shaped my style and technique -- there was never any question of "how do I dominate my man?" it was "how do I NOT dominate my man - it's my natural way of relating on a physical, sexual level."

People can teach you technique and processes 'til the cows come home. They can't teach you to have a fire in your belly for dominance and submission that guides you and feeds your inspiration.

Akasha



While I very much agree that much of what we are comes from a very natural inherent place within us, I also know that no matter how much of a natural you may be it is only arrogance and ignorance that would make you think that you know more out of the box than someone with a lifetime of experience. It is not a hard task for a woman to know how to seduce but that makes you a seductress not a Domina.

As I have stated before, we must first Master ourselves before we can ever hope of properly mastering another.

Also while some of the emotional and conditional aspects may be workable right out of the box, in the hands of the inexperienced and untrained things like whipping, flogging, restraints, suspension, fireplay, knifeplay, body control, hypnosis, etc can not only be sub-par they could also potentially be life threatening and permanently damaging.

And taking those types of risks with anothers life shows an absolute lack of respect for the arts and for your partner.

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 12:31:21 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: afmvdp

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

People don't *need* mentors if they have a built-in, natural, instinctive desire to dominate. No one taught me how to get into a man's head and seduce him and balance my need for submission with his fears and desires. People with dominant tendencies are perfectly capable of making their desires/fantasies a reality with a willing partner and a grasp of safety and common sense. It doesn't have to be rocket science. Even without the Internet, without books, and without BDSM groups or 'mentors' there are people all over the world engaging in consensual power exchange in their relationships.

Mentors are fantastic for the kinds of people that like that sort of relationship and like to learn that way. But it isn't a necessity.

This has nothing to do with asking for advice on technique, communication problems, finding partners, etc. -- but some people are drawn into BDSM without any "instinct" desire (natural desire) for dominance or submission combined with no real experience -- and those are the ones that get impatient and demanding and frustrated.

My desire to dominate men is what shaped my style and technique -- there was never any question of "how do I dominate my man?" it was "how do I NOT dominate my man - it's my natural way of relating on a physical, sexual level."

People can teach you technique and processes 'til the cows come home. They can't teach you to have a fire in your belly for dominance and submission that guides you and feeds your inspiration.

Akasha



While I very much agree that much of what we are comes from a very natural inherent place within us, I also know that no matter how much of a natural you may be it is only arrogance and ignorance that would make you think that you know more out of the box than someone with a lifetime of experience. It is not a hard task for a woman to know how to seduce but that makes you a seductress not a Domina.

As I have stated before, we must first Master ourselves before we can ever hope of properly mastering another.

Also while some of the emotional and conditional aspects may be workable right out of the box, in the hands of the inexperienced and untrained things like whipping, flogging, restraints, suspension, fireplay, knifeplay, body control, hypnosis, etc can not only be sub-par they could also potentially be life threatening and permanently damaging.

And taking those types of risks with anothers life shows an absolute lack of respect for the arts and for your partner.


By the time someone is ready to start whipping, cutting, doing breath control and other dangerous activities I'd assume they've had plenty of time to learn the basics of bdsm -- understanding their own desires, understanding how to read a partner and understanding how to communicate.

It boils down to common sense when picking up an implement you've never had in your hand before and using it on another human body. Can it be done without a mentor? Sure - if it's done carefully and with a lot of communication, reading, first aid and safety precautions (again, common sense). I learned all my physical (body on body) approach, body language, mindset, attitude, style, sexuality and communication/empathy without anyone telling me what to do. I also started when I was very young, and sexual intercourse was not thrown into the mix to complicate matters. I think this "foundation" helps build better communication skills, partner reading and understanding *our* emotions than anything a mentor or a book can teach.

I learned flogging and caning from a professional dominatrix. I would think people coming online and doing their research and jumping into bdsm for the first time are not going straight into using heavy implements or dangerous toys.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to afmvdp)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 12:37:26 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: afmvdp

in the hands of the inexperienced and untrained things like whipping, flogging, restraints, suspension, fireplay, knifeplay, body control, hypnosis, etc can not only be sub-par they could also potentially be life threatening and permanently damaging.


All of those things are TECHNIQUE. I can teach anyone to do those things. Those skills are NOT what makes a person dominant, or submissive, or good at either one. Take another look at Aakasha's post.



_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to afmvdp)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 1:27:01 PM   
DelRey


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

quote:

Maybe there needs to be a 2nd level of this community that is only admissible upon referrals.


M. DelRay-

there is- actually there are many such groups, invite or referal based, in every area of the globe, and more levels than just two.

The internet bears as much relation to SM as dancing does to architecture. In any local scene, there will be groups that host their own parties, share info, generally socialise amoung themselves. You be more likely to see a group of them out to dinner than waiting for a station to clear in the local dungeon, or going to a boatshow than attending the local lecture group.

Stay warm,
Lawrence



pssssssssst, hey buddy, trying to assist the women here (here meaning this site)

< Message edited by DelRey -- 12/20/2005 1:28:59 PM >

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 3:25:50 PM   
Delvin


Posts: 151
Joined: 8/23/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Mentoring is all good and well as long as you the person who seeks this tutelage understand that there is no single right way of doing something. The number one argument in this lifestyle is that nothing is uniform or held within a set of guidelines. We all understand the basic labels used to communicate our needs and views, but even something as simple as sub vs. slave can have so many different meanings. So, yes mentoring is fine as long as you always keep an open mind to it and take the valuable ideas that will help YOU in being a better you.

The true power in this lifestyle is knowledge and understanding some of the basic concepts and labels out there will help you learn and of course the time invested always matters. Read for a week and think you are ready? Then you will more then likely attract someone who has also read for a week or less and both of you clueless as to what is needed or required. Hurt feelings, pain both mental and physical can only come from this.

Sadly we live in a must have right now attitude and the drive-thru slave is born. It takes time to understand yourself and time to set your life on a course you want and expect others to serve you as you go.

D

(in reply to DelRey)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 4:04:35 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

pssssssssst, hey buddy, trying to assist the women here (here meaning this site)


M. DelRay-

I understand that- and as I said, this site has little or nothing to do with SM (or D/S, or BDSM or whatever...)

I think our ladies are perfectly capable of helping themselves (eg: What Is It With Women...? )

And as I think of it, they are in fact, half the problem...

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to DelRey)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 4:16:25 PM   
DeepWaters


Posts: 118
Joined: 4/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OscarHargraves

Come on DelRey; don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.



The other problem is that most guys (including me!) don't want to wait to complete our training before we get a Sub. We want a woman NOW! We have desires and needs and want some satisfaction. Yeah, we want to do it better and we want to learn but we DON'T want to wait before we get that Sub, so we find one (if they are as lucky as I was) and get started. Then, as we go along, we find that both the Sub and ourselves want to learn more and do more so we come to places like CM to get ideas from people who KNOW more than we do. It would be nice if there was a school we could all attend on weekends for X number of weeks and then when we graduated we'd know all this stuff but that just isn't happening. (At least not here in the great Southwest).

.


Id also like to point out that its also rather difficult to learn certain techniques unless you happen to have someone to try them upon...Mentoring houses do exist and you can learn a lot at a play party especially if youre allowed to play with an experienced persons submissive...but it does beg the question if you're a Dom with out a Sub are you really a Dom...maybe this is where we need to get into certification...building the skill sets and being exposed to insights of those more experienced than us in some areas of the lifestyle... the distinction of someone being naturally dominant vs a master...

then again what criteria does one need to be a "master of BDSM techniques" Im fairly knowledgeable at breath play, cutting and needle play...but have yet to gain any real proficiency with single tail whips for instance...does this make less a master...eh our community is still feeling its way about its own definations...which makes it hard to argue...as some people use the same words but to each it has different meanings...

< Message edited by DeepWaters -- 12/20/2005 4:20:48 PM >

(in reply to OscarHargraves)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 4:26:00 PM   
DelRey


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat



M. DelRey-

I understand that- and as I said, this site has little or nothing to do with SM (or D/S, or BDSM or whatever...)

Huh ? You mean this is actually a martha stewert recipe exchage and we got off toppic ???

quote:



And as I think of it, they are in fact, half the problem...

Stay warm,
Lawrence


women ask for it ? then bitch errrr ahhh I mean vent, err ahhh er I mean express "feelings" about it. LOL

Man, I'm glad you said it.... lol

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Dom/s "Do this", "Do that", th... - 12/20/2005 4:31:35 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DelRey

The Kink is easy, it is only when you understanding your heart and the heart, emotions as well as the desires of your sub that is most important. When you have a true D/s connection with your sub as a result of the proper control of your being and understanding her, your sub will respond to high levels that dreams are made of, rather than just dropping orders on her.

Sounds remedial or even cliché I know, but the truth is this lifestyle is NOT a "do this", "do that" then you "have it" program. It is extremely mental and psychological which requires intense training of the Dom/Master.

del Rey



del Rey,

I am curious what kind of training for dominants are you suggesting that people need? Is it training on using the various toys in BDSM or is it psychological training?

I do not see the need for understanding yourself mentally and emotionally as only something useful for dominants, or even just useful for people in D/s relationships. Understanding yourself is useful for everyone whether you participate in D/s or not.

As for my Lord, he is very well read in many areas, including mental, emotional and behaviors. It is a passion for both my Lord and I to always seek to improve ourselves, so we are both very active in reading and conversing when something or someone sparks our interest.

Knight's kyra


_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to DelRey)
Profile   Post #: 20
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