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Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 2:44:49 AM   
Termyn8or


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CJ accused me of bragging about my job, but now I have found the flipside. This dude thinks he runs the place or something. This is about my fourth runin with him and I always handled it in the usual Urban way, I won. Last time the dude was really out of line and he wound up peeling tires out the parking lot. Today, yesterday now actually, he pulled another little stunt.

I am going to win no matter what, they will cut his hours to where we will not be there at the same time, under this specific set of circumstances it can be done.

The thing I need to figure out is how friendly I should be and if it is raise time. I have been there over three years after all.

In a way I almost want to clench my fist and handle things the old way, but not only do I not want to, this guy might kick my ass.

And you know, this guy is not the major problem, the problem is the boss, the dude and I can settle our differences in a bar on Saturday night, and I don't mean a fight, just talk. What pissed me off was that the boss ran away from this minor altercation. That is disturbing. I have seen signs of this behavior before.

The guy I am at odds with is actually an alright guy, I can deal with him, but the boss and only the boss can make certain decisions, and I need to know where what authority lies and what are the standing orders.

The dude thinks he runs the place, but I was never told that he did. Mt Daddy told me don't ever take any shit from anyone (little did he know it would backfire on him) and with that "technology" I have been able to carve out a life. They have no idea of what I can do, but at the same time I like working there usually.

Why do I have to do this everywhere I work ? I have only been there 3½ years, I am getting sick of this.

Why does it have to be this way ? Why is it that money seems to equal ignorance ?

Well maybe it's tradition.

T
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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 3:23:53 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I am going to win no matter what, they will cut his hours to where we will not be there at the same time, under this specific set of circumstances it can be done.




Were I in your shoes, I wouldn't underestimate them. I've seen your posts, T; the ones talking of taking a couple of days sick leave when you feel like it. Well, you're fucking with your boss' livelihood, and while you may think you're invincible, he may think you're becoming a liability. With these spats and you taking time off, your boss and the other lad may think you're a total pain in the arse, and it doesn't take much for them to get their heads together and have you over. Were you my employee, I'd be seriously considering finding a way to get rid of you. There are outstanding football players who are shipped out as a result of their reluctance to toe the line. I've seen it at every place I have worked; there is a point where ability is outweighed by indiscipline.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

The guy I am at odds with is actually an alright guy, I can deal with him, but the boss and only the boss can make certain decisions, and I need to know where what authority lies and what are the standing orders.



Were I you, and assuming you value your job, I'd keep my head down, my mouth shut and watch how the land lies; for all you know, they may have decided that something has to give, and that something is you. In the meantime, test the situation with the minimum of fuss: the other lad has an idea, you have an alternative idea - throw it up to your boss and see which way he leans. Once you've established a pattern, then it's time to open your mouth.

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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 3:45:02 AM   
candystripper


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quote:

Why does it have to be this way ? Why is it that money seems to equal ignorance ?

Termynator


Imagine being a foul-mouthed chick lawyer from NY practicing law down south, LOL. 
 
I feel your pain, Termy but you're right: it's crappy management.  Taken too far, crappy management will drive a business under.  You need to heed this warning -- your employer may be going out of business, I am sorry to say.
 
This is what I suggest:  Ask to meet with your boss behind closed doors.  Stick a voice-activated recorder in your pocket, if'n he does not own the joint.  Tell him you need to know if the 'organizational chart' has changed.  Make him say YES or NO.
 
Obviously, he will be forced to say NO. 
 
Follow up the meeting with a thank you note, congratulating him on resloving a thorny office politics matter.  Send a copy to all your coworkers, including the f**ktrad  who is aggravating you.  If someone else owns the company, CC them on the 'thank you' note as well.
 
If this doesn't stop the horseshit -- and it sounds like you work with a bunch of slow learners -- send follow-up emails and CC everyone who originally got the thank you note.  Never take an accusatory or crabby tone.  Just continue asking:
 
Who's in charge around here?  I need to know so I can do my freaking job.
 
I will tell you a short story.  So, one of my clients had a group of employees who were acting as a receiver (i.e., the boss for a troubled financial institution).  Their task was to guide the company in distress back to financial health, or failing that, wind it up.
 
But what were they actually doing?  Rubber-stamping everything sent to them by the distressed company -- and thereby placing my client in breach of his fiduciary duty.
 
Not really knowing how else to light a fire under their asses, I asked:
 
'So, how long do you guys plan on keeping up this clusterf**k?'
 
O, the hollaring and bellyaching that went on, LMAO. 
 
"Candy was MEAN to me!'  
 
ROFLMAO.
 
Well, it had been FIVE freaking years since they were hired on as receiver....what else would you call it but a clusterf**k?
 
*Winks*
 
You ever gonna pick up that damned phone and call me, Termy?
 
candystripper 

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/15/2008 3:47:51 AM >

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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 4:42:16 AM   
TNstepsout


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Term when you have a problem like that, you have to look in the mirror. I know it sucks, but there it is. I had a situation at work that drove me mad for over a year. I had also experienced similar things in jobs before and always left or transferred to a different position thinking it was "all their fault". This time I didn't want to leave, I liked the job enough, and I guess over time, something finally clicked and I realized how I was contributing to the problem. I still think my co-worker is a complete waste of space and I still think my boss needs to have her head examined for the way she dealt with "waste of space", but in the end, it's not my problem. I don't have the confidence in my boss I once had, but I have something better now. I have the truth of who and what she is. I have reality. I had to let go of what I imagined she was or should be and just deal with what is. It's a job. I go there, I do work, I make money. I had to let go of my idealistic notions of what the company/department should or could be. 

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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 5:12:50 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I have the truth of who and what she is.......I had to let go of my idealistic notions of what the company/department should or could be. 



A wise move.

An employee is hired in accordance with his/her contract; the boss, rather than the employee, decides the nature of the company.

Furthermore, look at this from the boss' point of view. The boss is having a hard time from his/her boss/customers; the boss has enough on his/her plate without having to sort out two employees who can't resolve their personal differences between them. By all means, ask for direction when two employees have a reasonable disagreement; a personality issue, however, will result in you looked on unfavourably on the grounds that you're not employed to like or dislike person A or B, regardless of the details.

You are, as you quite rightly stated, there to do a job.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 11/15/2008 5:14:42 AM >


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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 5:29:32 AM   
pahunkboy


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Term,   "I am here to do my job"

the proof is in the production.

Jenny runs a food bank.  She is 100% volunteer. No mileage, no stipend.

She gets heat that is surprising.  She does free work, 4 years now.

And yet- she gets the difficult people.

The guy that signs your check is the relevant guy.  The others do not amount to a hill of beans.  It is about bringing home the bacon.

So you are proficient and you carry out your job duties with pride.  So why is that a problem?

Compete with him in teck skills.

If this is a manhood thing, call him on it.  Set up a boxing match.  Invite the co-workers.

Your job will get better--  as we go into hard times people will fix the old junk- rather then buy the new stuff.

Be seen at work with briefcases and teck manuals.  Intricate ones.  

It does feel good to rant.    Dont get sucked in at work.   Any place that  has people has the naggers.

He sounds like a whiny bitch.    Competence trumps talk.

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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 7:33:34 AM   
tweedydaddy


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watch your blood pressure, get another job, looks like this one could give you a stroke.

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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 7:35:44 AM   
Maya2001


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You are low man on the totem pole there...suck it up that is the way it is...you can prove your worth thru your work skillls
causing conflict with other employees  that have already proven their value is only going to work against you and devalue your worth  to a point where the boss will question whether or not you are worth the headache


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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 7:37:41 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

the problem is the boss

The problem is you, actually.  Take the chip off your shoulder if you want to get along with people, or quit complaining about "run-ins" with "dudes" if you don't.


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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 3:02:19 PM   
FourQ


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Termyn8or,

I've had exactly the same problem in my last job.  One guy, a technophobe who called me in to his office to ask what happened if he clicked Send on an e-mail had it in for me from day one.  We debated, he shouted, I approached the boss to advise him of my views on what had happened.

In the end, I was advised to give him more slack and 'put up with him, it's the way he is'.

In the end I concluded I had to see the c**t for 9 hours a day, he's going to be a w***er for the rest of his life!  It kept me going through those difficult times. Hope it's of some help.


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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 3:03:44 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


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Take a lesson from me: I was with my last company for 8 & 1/2 years.  I built the entire IT infrastructure.  Everything worked the way it was supposed to.  And I still got fired.

That was 14 months ago and I haven't had a full-time, permanent job since. 

Please, think before you speak or act.  A non-confontational, heart-to-heart with the boss is probably not a bad idea.  Unless it puts him in a bad position where he has to make a tough choice about any given employee.

BTW: a week ago last Tuesday (11/4) I started a 1-month contract as a "dsktop support engineer" for Oracle here in Chicago.  I really hope they renew or hire me.

~Dave


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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 6:48:47 PM   
Jeffff


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As a manager of people, I have to tell you. I don't really give a rats ass if you and thus guy can work it out.

I want cooperation and reasonable productivity  and if I don't get it some one goes.

Thus if all things are equal, the least valuable, easiest to replace guy will soon be looking for work.

Jeff

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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 7:05:30 PM   
Termyn8or


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I greaytly appreciate the responses, they were well thought out and I think it would be appropriate to apologize now for not giving enough detail. I don't disagree with any of you, on the basis of what I said it was quite good. But the details of the business come into play, so I will go on to apprise you of that. I realize that many people work for big companies and that the politics and therefore the logistics of the the players therin are different than in this venue.

First of all this is a TV shop, one of the few remaining. It is not easy to stay in this business due to the non-cooperation of the manufacturers who would rather sell a new set than parts for an older one. All of the laws about supporting the product have been stripped away, to the point where you can't even count on the manufacturer's warranty. Just ask my buddy, bought a nioce new DLP around Easter last year and it broke down before Thanksgiving. He replaced the bulb, which is considered user replacable in that unit but it still didn't work, so he called the Authorized Service Center, the ASC as we call them in the business. Between the time of purchase and failure, well within one year the part the set needs is no longer available. Other brands, they simply say, there are no parts. These things cost over a thousand dollars yet the menufacturer is allowed to get away with this.

I work on larger sets fron about one to maybe fifteen years old. Certain parts are available, we found them where the manufacturer bought them in some cases. That has become easy to handle. But certain parts have to come from the manufacturer.

So from at one time operating as a nice professional business with nice part new and shiny on the wall and in drawers, we have become a junkyard. This has been going on for a long time and I am used to it.

I have done my research and "homework" and as a result I am one of the best CRT based RPTV technicians in this state, in fact I might be the best, but I won't make that claim, let's just say that I know what I am doing. This is alot more difficult when I have had no benefit of ant factory training or seminars or anything of the sort. I have had to get the info I needed on my own. I had to learn new circuits on my own. Sure I have downloaded service manuals and even training manuals, illegally. But there are mistakes in them, and just so you don't think I am full of it, I got the guide for troubleshooting the PTK195 series RCA sets. These are three tube projectors but are based on the CTC195. Well right in the information from the manufacturer there is a reference to a degaussing relay, the PTK version uses no such circuit, anyone who knows anything about this knows that. If they can make an error that blatant with impunity, what else of what they say should I trust or not ?

Add to that my ability to sometimes adapt parts, because it has become a junkyard type business by necessity. What I said in another thread about people not being able to afford a TV was no joke. Sure you can afford the TV and get ten months same as cash, but shortly thereafter it will be sitting in a TV shop with a four hundred dolla repair bill that you can't afford and it will be sold.

I am instrumental to the continued success of this company, period. Nobody there posesses even one fifth of my knowledge and the one guy who approaches that is 60 years old and totally computer illiterate.

Sorry to sound like a braggart, but facts are facts and you can ask them as well as the last place I worked for. I'll give you their phone numbers anytime.

Now I make the equivalent of about $27 an hour there, and I can smoke and they got bottled water. Knowing business, they cannot bill my time at twentyseven bucks an hour, to make any little bit of money at all they must bill my time at approzimately three times that amount.

My work ethic says that then it is my responsibility to make that amount for the company and I usually do, and then some. But then comes a bad day now and again. That's life and I have no problem with that. When that bad day is caused by the equipment or the manufacturer thereof, we have no control over that.

When people get in my way and hinder my endevors to turn a profit, it riles me up. I keep a tight leash on myself so to speak, I am under control and I do not yell, except for those occasions when I am talking to someone far away. I will not raise my voice in anger. But I don't let it get to that point.

Why should I yell when I could just sit down and watch the clock, when the sweep second hand goes round once, I done earned thirty something cents.

I want to see the company for which I work survive and thrive, and as long as I am on the clock every fiber of my being is directed toward that goal. External infuences knock us down again and again, so the very last thing we need is internal influences working against our success. That is the source of my ire in this matter. We are supposed to be a team.

Remember that the main problem is space. We have no room for things, as big as the place is in SQ FT it is full. Hence comes my letter which will be mailed tomorrow on dead tree, through the snail system :

_____________________________________________________________

I am looking forward to a profitable relationship in the future in your employ. This can happen after the following conditions are met.
  1. I work for you. There is no manager, no foreman, no strawboss of any kind. There is nobody with any authority over me whatsoever except you, the person who pays me. You have confidence in my intelligence so I know when to ask another when in doubt as to exactly what to do, but this in no way confers any type of authority whatsoever.
  2. Because my time here is limited and expensive, and the fact that the units I work on are bulky and consume a lot of precious space, they shall be considered pre-eminant, and of top priority by all employees and associates.
  3. Therefore all cooperate with me, because of the profit potential and the fact that we need the precious space, and the fact that I am the only one there who really knows the field, I will use ANY AND ALL space in the shop to faithfully discharge my duties there. That there is no person’s "area", that it is all your "area" because you are the one who pays the rent.
  4. All employees and associates will be advised of these facts in my presence at which time I will gladly resume my endevors there, which are purely for your profit.

With these conditions met, you can expect my normal cooperation and assistance in all matters as you have enjoyed for the past three, nearly four years. I left because persuance of this matter at the time with hot heads would have been counterproductive. It is my goal to prevent, or reduce the severity and/or frequency of these situations.
I hope you can see that my demands are not unreasonable, and agree. Then I hope to resume our normally mutually beneficial business relationship. Thank you for your precious time used to read this.

___________________________________________

I believe I have the power to say this. None of this is bullshit, and a printed copy is going into the mail addressed to him with double postage on it, with a return address in NM and his real name on [  ] s.

I have been dealt ony one hand in life, as are we all. This could cost me my job yes, but if I win, think of that.

I want to be the same happy to help guy for my coworkers, or teammates. They have said "Thank you" to me and I have told them not to thank me, that we are on a team. Does the quarterback always thank the linemen when he does not get sacked ? Heck no.

I guess I will find out soon if my ass is up to my balls.

T

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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 7:32:33 PM   
thornhappy


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I have a feeling this won't work out well.  Just as a backup, are there other places you could work around there?

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RE: Work, and problems - 11/15/2008 7:38:17 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


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Term:
Good luck with that - do tell us it all works out...

~Dave


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He said I'd blown a seal. I said fix the damn thing and leave my private life out of this!
What happens in the event horizon STAYS in the Event Horizon!
I have zero tolerance for Zero Tolerance

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RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 2:45:34 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I realize that many people work for big companies and that the politics and therefore the logistics of the the players therin are different than in this venue.

I have done my research and "homework" and as a result I am one of the best CRT based RPTV technicians in this state, in fact I might be the best, but I won't make that claim, let's just say that I know what I am doing.

I am instrumental to the continued success of this company, period.

With these conditions met, you can expect my normal cooperation and assistance in all matters as you have enjoyed for the past three, nearly four years.
___________________________________________



There's one constant in all organisations, T: the boss' authority.

Let's say I'm the boss picking up this e-mail/letter.

I'd be thinking: this fucker thinks I'm wet behind the ears, he's dressing it up as: "it's all for you boss", while making demands and attempting to coerce me into making decisions. I'm the boss here, and I know what this operation needs, and who exactly does he think he is? 'Time to make sure he understands who's leading and who's following. Mind you, I've been here before with this lad, and he obviously isn't getting the message. 'Time to get rid.

I think you'll find yourself negotiating on contrasting matters: you're negotiating on the back of your skill and experience, he will be negotiating his position of authority, which is one you can't win.

Why do you have to do this, T? Your nose has been put of joint because the other lad isn't bowing down to you? Well, what does your contract say? Is there anything on paper that suggests you have decision making authority over the other lad?

This simply isn't reasonable on your part. You have an idea - 'nothing unusual there. Push it up to the boss for consideration rather than make demands. Plus, have you actually put some meat on the bones of this idea: estimated revenue, costs, resource requirements, customer expectations etc? Assuming you haven't, then it's no more than pie in the sky and an attempt at controlling matters for the sake of your ego.

Unless your boss isn't quite the full shilling, he'll see right through your e-mail within a minute.......no boss likes a subversive in his midst, and there are ways and means to stamp it out.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 4:42:41 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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Given what youve said about your boss not liking to deal with confrontation - and given that this is a confrontational approach, you might just get away with it. Alternatively and more likely you wont. With this single written piece of evidence of your "poor attitude", I would suspect the boss will sooner resolve the confrontation by firing you.

No one - absolutely no one, is indispensable. Trying to tell the boss how to run the place (ie, inform him/ her how clueless he/she is) is not a way to impress. That youve not had a raise in nearly four years tells me that the boss is not particularly motivated to retain you.

I would rather hear about why the place is full up now - and what can be done to reduce the volume of stuff stored to make the place more efficient. I would rather hear about why the place isnt running as efficiently as it might, and suggestions as to how that could be improved. I would rather hear about ways to get round the problems of manufacturers' policies on repairs and spare parts. I would rather hear about new lines of business that could be developed for the future - preferably ones where you have specialist knowledge that will get you a raise and make you more vital to keep around.

If I were you I'd hold off on this letter until you have something more positive to say that the issuing of ulitmata. And I'd have the customer list memorised, just in case.

E

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RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 4:55:34 AM   
MissSCD


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It is not really about money as much as it is about power.  Just be quite, and this boss will shoot himself in the foot and lose his/her job.
I have seen that happen a million times.
Be nice as you can possibly be.  It throws your enemy off, and they will eventually relax.
In the meantime, keep a diary with dates and times because that is w hat his/her boss will want.

It sucks.  I know because they have given a 19 year old my store because I have a car.   I had rather be on the road because we are dead.
 
It is because of our store manager.
 
Regards, MissSCD

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RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 5:16:18 AM   
TNstepsout


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Uh oh, I have to ditto what others are saying. I don't think that letter is the right thing to so. Why don't you put it in a drawer and hang on to it for a couple of weeks.

See, here's the deal, what you are saying is EXACTLY what I was talking about. I too thought I was completely justified in telling my boss what a waste of space "waste of space" (for future reference she will be referred to as WOS) was. She was rude to customers, rude to coworkers, she didn't take care of things that could cost us contracts etc.... I worried for the future of the company because times are tough in our business right now but I couldn't seem to get anyone else to SEE how much she could cost our company. No one seemed to care. They just saw me as having a vendetta against this girl. It was maddening. Couldn't anyone see I just had the company's best interests at heart? Why was I the one on the hot seat when she was the one screwing around? WTF!

But after finally getting hammered by my boss I decided to give it up. It was obvious that she took my concerns about WOS as a challenge to her authority basically telling me "you let me run things, you're not the boss".  So I did and I think that's what you need to do. If the bottom line starts to fall then your boss will figure out that you need to generate three times your salary and maybe then he'll realize he needs to make sure that can happen. Eventually it will sort itself out. You just have to be patient and concentrate on your job.

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RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 5:51:39 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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Term,

the letter makes you appear WEAK.   ...why dont you free lance?

Ill loan you a tent for your yard.  If you are good- then evolve into your own following.

My brother did.  The family business was sorta directed to the cousin, not my brother.  But since he was GOOD, he scored the cream in jobs.   Now he could care less about the structure as he gets the deal.  The others can flatter themselfs... lol.

Set up shop on the side for start.  Meanhwile- just one line to the co-workers, "I have a lot of work to do".   and when they delay you, "I have alot of work to do".  you can hint that anyone not working at that minute is slacking. and no matter how it gets repeated...you are the dutiful worker.

This coming weekend, build me a Ron Paul statue. I will pick it up next time I drive thru, or we can ship it UPS.

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