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RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 8:50:36 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Well, the first thing I must say is that I respect all of your opinions. Of course you are not all living under a bridge in a box somewhere, and you each have a point of view, and I consider that and am reconsidering my proposed actions. That is not to say that I have abandoned this course of action, but the overwhelming admonishments not to take this course of action are under serious consideration.

Sometimes the first concocted solution to a problem is not the correct solution. However this solution could work for me because of a few facts. My earning power for the shop is not in question. What I was doing at the time would have pulled in about $400 for the shop in two hours. With about $50 in materials and my time taken out, that is not bad money. Add to that the fact that nobody else there could complete the task.

Sure I am not irreplaceable, but I know who can replace me and who they are. Three or four people could do it. One has left the industry and now makes $85,000 a year, another is an IT/networking professional and makes about twice that, the other is a Polak immigrant who has gone into business for himself.  The rest are dead. I am not kidding. That is how this job is.

It don't want to brag, but I am goddam good at this, and in fact one of the best. In this matter I do need to assert myself, but what I am hearing here is at least putting the brakes on so to speak, and I appreciate it. I don't want to get a big head over it. The guy I replaced became a prick, they called him Hitler. I have told them not to pick on Hitler like that. I think I can see why he became a prick though. With this guy on a power trip, how do you counter that properly ? I think it is countered properly by a well designed and implemented power trip of my own. That's what their previous "Hitler" did. It worked then, and it should work again.

Thinking back to this incident, and the others during which I held my tongue and remained calm, I see it this way. I am not asking for any respect or consideration that is not due me due to my experience and ability. But now I am totally determined to exact same in full measure. I was working on a sixty five inch wide screen for Pete's sake, it simply doesn't fit in what the Lester God considers to be my "area". I am not putting up with shit like that. A sixty five inch widescreen is almost sixty five inches wide. I can't change that. 

After thirty years of experience, after having shops literally build me benches etc. to my specifications, here I have to work sitting on the floor. Thankfully at 48 years old I can still bring my chest down to me knees sitting on the floor and I frequently have to. I have resigned myself to the fact that this will not change.

I had to remove the speaker grill from this unit and as one might expect it is nearly sixty five inches wide. So instead of standing up and moving it out of the "zone" or whatever Mr Powertrip want to call it I left it there especially since I know he does road work and I hadn't seen him for a half hour preceeding.

I think it would have been reasonable for him to say "What the fuck is this" to which I would have responded "Sorry, it's been there for about three seconds, give me a minute and I'll get it out of your way". But no, his attitude is like "You shall reserve this space for me at all times whether I am here or not". I would never make such a demand and really if anyone could or should it would be me. This guy doesn't know shit as far as electronics. He knows how to use our databases that tell him what part(s) to change but couldn't tell you the difference between a bridge rectifier and an optocoupler.

Under normal circumstance I try to teach him new things, and that is appreciated of course by all involved. Like I said I don't want any respect which I am not due. Now my intent is to exact the full measure of respect which I am due.

I have not really put the boss through a stupidity test so far, but it is possible that it will backfire on me. If so look for me to be gone from CM as I will not be able to pay for the phone and DSL. But I know this much, and it is true, you can't win if you are not willing to lose. That is how I got to this point.

That exact letter might not be the right way, but I think it is damn close.

T

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 9:14:43 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
_____________________________________________________________

I am looking forward to a profitable relationship in the future in your employ. This can happen after the following conditions are met.
  1. I work for you. There is no manager, no foreman, no strawboss of any kind. There is nobody with any authority over me whatsoever except you, the person who pays me. You have confidence in my intelligence so I know when to ask another when in doubt as to exactly what to do, but this in no way confers any type of authority whatsoever.
  2. Because my time here is limited and expensive, and the fact that the units I work on are bulky and consume a lot of precious space, they shall be considered pre-eminant, and of top priority by all employees and associates.
  3. Therefore all cooperate with me, because of the profit potential and the fact that we need the precious space, and the fact that I am the only one there who really knows the field, I will use ANY AND ALL space in the shop to faithfully discharge my duties there. That there is no person’s "area", that it is all your "area" because you are the one who pays the rent.
  4. All employees and associates will be advised of these facts in my presence at which time I will gladly resume my endevors there, which are purely for your profit.


With these conditions met, you can expect my normal cooperation and assistance in all matters as you have enjoyed for the past three, nearly four years. I left because persuance of this matter at the time with hot heads would have been counterproductive. It is my goal to prevent, or reduce the severity and/or frequency of these situations.
I hope you can see that my demands are not unreasonable, and agree. Then I hope to resume our normally mutually beneficial business relationship. Thank you for your precious time used to read this.

___________________________________________


T, DO NOT SEND THAT LETTER.
 
Your boss taking evasive action already indicates that he thinks that you are a pain in the ass. His enemies and opponents are outside the company. He can do without a pain in the ass person inside the company. He wants a loyal employee, not a pain in the ass employee.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 10:14:10 AM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		All I have to go by is what has been written in this thread so far, and these are my thoughts on what I've read.

First, I would definitely not recommend sending that letter!  It sounds like it was written by a Prima Donna whiner, and if I, as a boss, received such a letter the person sending it would be the first one down the road.  Doesn't matter how good the person really is, when they have that kind of attitude it simply causes relationship problems with the other employees.  One thing in the OP really causes me to wonder where the problem really lies.  You said, "Why do I have to do this everywhere I work ? I have only been there 3½ years, I am getting sick of this."  What is the common denominator between you and the places you work?  You!  If the problem follows you, you might want to ask yourself why.

Now, if YOU were the boss how would you like to see the employees handle the situation?  Do you want them to duke it out in the parking lot?  Probably not.  Do you want to start receiving "ultimatum" letters from them?  I doubt it.  I, as a boss, would like the employees to come to me and say, "Hey, we have a problem. What can we do to work things out?"  And that is what I would recommend that you do.  Try to get the other guy to go with you to see the boss and if the other guy won't go then at least go alone.  Explaine to the boss exactly what the problem is and then discuss what can be done to resolve the situation. And leave the "I am the greatest and deserve all the room I want and I make all kinds of money for your business" chest beating in the other room.  Better yet, lose it all together!

I hope this hasn't sounded too harsh, and I do wish you luck in getting things resolved.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 10:47:15 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Has the following entered your head, T?

You're number 2 in the boss' eyes. The other lad knows this, but wants your place in the pack. The other lad knows your weak spot - your ego - so, he's pressing a few of your buttons knowing full well you won't be able to exercise the control to play it nice and steady; he anticipates you'll blow up in some way that will jeopardise your position, which is what you're about to do. Perhaps he knows he doesn't need to provide the rope to hang you; you'll do that for yourself.

It's a possibility.

P.S. There are ways and means of winning, T.......you're about to go over the top into no man's land, with no artillery cover.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 11:26:15 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		I'd back down and completely rethink your strategy, right from the beginning.

One of my more recent lessons as a boss is that you cannot be a democrat, you have to be an autocrat. I run a small theatre here in London, it really all comes down to the work, the discipline and the commitment. There's no space for politics, none at all, apart from, of course, my own. Walk into the theatre and you automatically accept and agree to my terms. All of them. Those terms came about from running a theatre at break even or a profit without funding over a number of years.

I can tell you exactly what's wrong with your letter. Firstly I am the one with authority, and I decide who has authority over what and who and why. You making that decision without my permission is a strike against you. Secondly I don't need to be told what your value is to my company, I have my own opinion. You either agree with this opinion or you don't. You're also giving me an ultimatum, having already taken matters into your own hands, and this to me is serious. It would seriously undermine trust between us, and I'm the last person you need to undermine trust with.

I would suggest in your situation far more humility. 'I have a problem and I need your advice, help and input..' This would be a good start. Put the control of the situation into my hands so I can make the decisions and work something out between the two of you.

That way, even if you have a track record of being confrontational, I can see that you are attempting to do things differently and this would work to your advantage.

Being cooperative is far better than being confrontational and talking about cooperation. Some call it people management.

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(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 12:05:29 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Yall still don't get it. Things like this have worked for me before. Out of 11 million people in the state of Ohio about ten can do this job. The stress is beyond anything you can imagine.

OK, I won't send the letter, but I am not going to ask for help like a fucking beggar. I walked in that door almost four years ago and I told them what I make per hour, they did not tell me.

I am not kowtowing to this, and I am not backing down. For me to function efficiently these understandings must be in place. I have enough fucking problems that I don't need to deal with people on a power trip. Don't tell me to back down. Gove me some good advice on how to win in this matter.

Yes, I am not going to send that letter, but Monday I am going to hand deliver it.

I have taken everything under consideration, and I don't know what kind of jobs y'all have, but maybe I asked in the wrong place. When you walk in at noon and get out at six after making the company a thousand bucks net, you deserve some consideration I think.

Maybe none of you have played this particular game before. Very few people can. I asked here because really I couldn't think of anywhere better to ask. Maybe there is noone I can ask, maybe I am on my own.

We shall see what happens Monday. I'll be sure to let you know.

T

(in reply to stella41b)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 12:21:52 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Yall still don't get it. Things like this have worked for me before. Out of 11 million people in the state of Ohio about ten can do this job. The stress is beyond anything you can imagine.

Horseshit squared, cubed, and squared again.

Stress is everywhere.  My client list includes billion-dollar companies, and when their ERP systems go down, the cost to some of them of the downtime is conservatively in the thousands of dollars per hour--and when that happens its my job to get those systems back up.  It's also my job to keep those same systems from going down.

If these systems can't be recovered, these same companies can fail--there have been times when what I do is the difference between a few hundred people getting paychecks the following week and going on unemployment.

Stress is a fact of life for everyone.  Good men deal with it.  Great men revel in it.


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 12:54:08 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Give me some good advice on how to win in this matter.

stella did. Others did as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Yes, I am not going to send that letter, but Monday I am going to hand deliver it.

Stop drinking, please?
 
Edited to add: T, occasionally I am in charge of an enterprise, never mind what. To accomplish that I very much rely on volunteers. Infrequently some of them think that they are so very much essential to the enterprise because for their unique abilities I am dependent on them, that they start to make demands and try to exert pressure on my policies. Guess what? A couple of hours later they blink their eyes dazedly, trying to comprehend what - figuratively - hit them between the eyes. I do not care how fucking indispensable they think they are, nor how indispensable they indeed are. Either they are rowing in the boat, or they are drowning outside the boat.

< Message edited by Rule -- 11/16/2008 1:39:31 PM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 1:34:56 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		OK CL, let me pose you this question, do your coworkers inhibit you ability to get the job done ? Yes or No.

And Rule, if you think these are the postings of a drunk, why did you bother to reply ?

T

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 1:40:16 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Because I care, T.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 1:43:35 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

OK CL, let me pose you this question, do your coworkers inhibit you ability to get the job done ? Yes or No.

Sometimes.  Strange as it may seem, there actually are a few people who take a notion to dislike either me or my methods.

And if I want to get my job done, I have to find a way to work with them anyway.


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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 7:12:41 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Oh boy. There is a new development. After all this I actually did reconsider sending that letter, and instead to hand deliver it Monday on which I am normally off. I would just put it in his hands and say "This is not etched in stone", which would soften it a bit.

However I did go to the olman's and show him the letter, asked him to spare an envelope and that I wanted two stamps (double postage to go 7.6 miles), and that was to make my point. I did reconsider, and also that he was going to get this letter, but with the caveat from me that it was not etched in stone. When I went to the olman's today I found out that it has been sent, per my instructions with double postage on it.

You gotta watch it with the olman, for one he is the one who taught me at least half of my business accumen. He read the letter and liked it. I didn't think he was going to up and send it though. Well he did.

Now I have made my bed so to speak. This is a trip. It's like I have made the opening play, and now I have to work from there. I am not going to fret it though, I have enough confidence in my abilities, and what you all don't understand is there are very few people who can do this job. I am now, however, stuck with a situation that I have created. [when will I ever learn ?]

In the coming week I will have a look at what the damage control looks like, and I am going to remain optimistic about it. Some of you may gloat saying "See ?". You have five seconds.

I will somehow moderate this situation, and hopefully everytrhing goes well. This feels like being pushed off a dock "Sink or swim". Really that is about how it is now. That letter was addressed to Anthony [Anton] because he is an Austrian immigrant, which is another factor in my decision to hold off and just deliver it Monday with my moderating terms. It actually would have gotten there faster, and I would have saved the cost of two stamps. Why did I train the olman so well ? seems he would have told me to go fuck off. Not this time.

Like in a card game, I have just played all my good cards, including trump. If I lose at this point I REALLY lose. Believe me folks, the letter the guy could handle. I would have said "Next time on the shitter read this, read the whole thing. You are the boss so it is not etched in stone, but understand that I mean it". Something like that in a friendly tone.

But now what's done is done. Luckily I am quite good at damage control, and we'll see how I fare in this. If it doesn't go well, the worst that can happen is that I will be looking for a job, and that was the situation when I first walked in the door almost four years ago.I also know who else is in the business in this area, so I might explore the idea of another job. However if nothing pans out, I might have to start a business. If that is the case it will not be in this field. I can do other things.

Part of what I was not sure of was the envelope. The way it is addressed and that it bears my address from decades ago, 6710 Cochiti SE Albuquerque New Mexico, 87101. That little play was intended to evoke a question as to why it is addressed so. I intended to respond "Because that was the last time I was happy".

There is nothing I can do at this point. I am not going to call in advance and I will never apologize for my words. That's my bed, I hoipe I can sleep. This situation had to be dealt with, and on my side the adversary, which will not remain an adversary might pull in forty bucks an hour, whereas I have good days and pull in ten times that amount. I have to stand on that. I am also not the only person who has had problems with this guy, so he might get axed. If the boss is really sick of it, maybe it is he who is the common denominator here, not me.

I didn't have to whip each and every place into shape, some were already in shape. My last job which I held for well over ten years, and I mean the last time, before that I was on and off because I would periodically quit, and then return after MY phone rang, with a healthy raise I might add. This was all over issues that needed to be addressed, and that company would hire me back, they have quite a few times. But I can't depend on this company responding in the same manner. I'll tell you this much, the boss has a long fuse, but he runs away and that is the major issue. But if he gets pissed off he would cut off his own nose to spite his face.

The cards are on the table now, I would have made a different play after what's been said, but now the hand is going to go the way it goes.

I'll keep you "posted".

Thanks all, I would have taken your advice but it is too late.

T

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 8:04:51 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Term, don't quit your job right now.
Hang in there, if possible.
At least find another job, prior to quitting this one.
 
For gosh sakes, pass the doobie.
I am starting to really like your posts.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/16/2008 8:10:34 PM >

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(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 8:17:38 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

Term:
Take a lesson from me: I was with my last company for 8 & 1/2 years.  I built the entire IT infrastructure.  Everything worked the way it was supposed to.  And I still got fired.

That was 14 months ago and I haven't had a full-time, permanent job since. 

Please, think before you speak or act.  A non-confontational, heart-to-heart with the boss is probably not a bad idea.  Unless it puts him in a bad position where he has to make a tough choice about any given employee.

BTW: a week ago last Tuesday (11/4) I started a 1-month contract as a "dsktop support engineer" for Oracle here in Chicago.  I really hope they renew or hire me.

~Dave



Good luck Dave, keeping fingers crossed for you.
I hope this turns full time for you.
Keep us posted.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Work, and problems - 11/16/2008 11:22:54 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Let us hope for the best.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Work, and problems - 11/17/2008 3:49:11 AM   
wandersalone


Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline 		I'm a little confused T.... you have mentioned how much money you make etc on numerous occasions yet you had to take the letter to your dad's and ask him for stamps and to post it?  For something that was as important as a letter of this nature I personally would have ensured that I was the one in control of when it was going to be sent....if at all.

I hope the results are what you hope for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

However I did go to the olman's and show him the letter, asked him to spare an envelope and that I wanted two stamps (double postage to go 7.6 miles),



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RE: Work, and problems - 11/17/2008 4:10:48 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:



Why do i have to do this everywhere I work?



Lets look at the common denominator here......


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RE: Work, and problems - 11/17/2008 5:26:50 AM   
stella41b


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Work, and problems - 11/17/2008 6:49:57 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Term, deny everything.     Did you handwrite it?   if you did- then that could have happened over when you mixed up a aspirin with ambien.   ;-D

ambien can cause some off side effects.  so even if you wrote in- the conscieous you did not.  if it was typed up- then it must be some carzy nut.  but not you.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Work, and problems - 11/17/2008 2:07:30 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		wanders, I mainly took it down there to show him. Basically how it works around here is that I work and he is retired. Having nothing better to do other than sit in front of the tube or surf the net he likes to get around, so he does the shopping etc. and I just pay him my share. He's 69 and wants to keep busy. It works out and we save money. For example by virtue of a router he is on my internet account. The phone line that carries the DSL is his account. We just split it. The only thing we don't split is electricity because that can be a nightmare in AC season, and of course our credit cards are seperate. It's not like I make all that much, I just make it fast, but that is no reason to waste it. This house was one of the best investments we ever made, and we split that down the middle as well, until it was paid off.

So, I thought I would answer that question, but onto the subject at hand. There are further developments. The boss called today. You see we like to inbibe in this certain substance from time to time (to time to time to time) and he called to let me know that he had acquired some of said substance. I took the opportunity to tell him that he would be recieving a letter in the mail, and that I had decided not to send it. He said he would simply hand it back to me unopened.

I appreciate the advice, and hindsight is 20/20. This is an exceedingly bad time to lose a job. While it might be quite difficult, nobody is irreplacable. And, if there's one thing this little situation has taught me, as I considereed my options should I become unemployed, that there just ain't much out there.

So now the main thing is to deal with Mr Powertrip. I intend to handle that with tact and restraint. Shake his hand and "Dude, the shit I work on is big, there is nothing I can do about that. Once in a while there will be an encroachement because space is limited. I am not trying to disrespect you, I am just trying to do my job as efficiently as possible. Times are tough and both of us are lucky just to have a job these days. So how about we stop butting heads eh ? Just like when you do a coolant job there are certain things I can't do at that time. There is no sense in me getting pissed off, you are just doing what you have to do. Realize that I also have to do what I have to do".

I could also stand the bit of introspection that occurred. I am one of the MOST dominant people you could run into, the rare times I can submit are like a release to me, because I realize when one adopts the 'take charge' attitude one had better be right. Maybe I'm getting old or something because at this point I am willing to back off a bit for the good of all concerned. Gawd, what now, are my teeth and hair going to fall out ?

Further comments are welcome, but just so you know it has blown over, and I am not a bum.

T

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Profile   Post #: 40
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