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RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/16/2008 7:18:51 AM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		Checklists can be a way to START a conversation and give people an idea of mutual areas of interest, but that is all they are really good for.  On sites like this one, the list is really very limited. There are a lot more kinks and fetishes than most people are even aware of, the proper terms for them are even less known and rarely are you going to find a comprehensive list anywhere, nor are people likely to go through them. Heck half the time they don't even bother to read profiles before contacting anyone, much less the lists.

That does not mean that I would not like to have the funds to do something similar to Match.com for BDSM. Lending a psychological and sociological methodology to helping compatible people finding each other could be extremely interesting and might open up a bit of happiness and success for more people.Rright now it is pretty much hit and miss as to whether you will find someone local to you or on places like this who will match as life partners. I know I searched for man years before Master and I found each other and it was not on sites like this, even though we We were on the same sites, but through another organization we both belonged to.

Where lists actually can come in much handier is if they are used as a "game". Each puts in a bowl folded slips of paper that includes one of their enjoyments/fetishes, and perhaps an abbreviated description of any equipment needed. When ideas for an evening stalls one person reaches in and pulls out a slip or two and kick starts the evening based on what's listed on the slips. It can remind you of the things, you or your partner enjoy but may have been neglected. 

poenkitten

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/16/2008 7:47:01 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What do you think of checklists and using them


I think they're brilliant, I have the two I use online at my website, so they're easy for a potential sub to view and use, and I eventually, if we do play, turn them into a contract, or a memorandum of understanding, specifically to denote boundaries, limits, etc. Having a signed checklist actually has saved me from a sub's lawsuit, once, so they rock

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/16/2008 8:20:13 AM   
kristileigh


Posts: 1078
Joined: 3/23/2008
Status: offline 		Master and i have done a checklist when W/we first met.
More so W/we could see what was O/our interests were.
On some things i put "hard limit" and then W/we have discussed it.
me being very new to the BDSM lifestyle put hard limit on some things i guess because i didnt know what it was all about.
i now know i have very few hard limits...........and no Master Chris has not forced me into anything. He introduced me and i found out i like it.

(in reply to JustDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/16/2008 9:04:58 AM   
MistressRouge


Posts: 876
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

Having a signed checklist actually has saved me from a sub's lawsuit, once, so they rock



How?


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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/16/2008 12:06:33 PM   
slvepetdobby


Posts: 3
Joined: 11/16/2008
Status: offline 		A Check List is a great "personal" referense, that helps jog my mind when in early stages of a relationship with a new Domme. Sort of like when She might direct Her potential new boy to send her an idea of my likes/dislikes and my "Hard Limits". I can use it as ""Ok....going through this, I remember things I will NOT do....and things I been curious and interested also in possibly trying".
Still, as I said - it is most useful only as a mental stimulation. One to one conversation/communication is most important to find out compatabilities. If a potential sub or slave can not let that Dom/Domme know thier likes/dislikes verbally, out of shyness - then how can he/she open up to Him/Her on other things?
Just my two cents :).

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/16/2008 1:21:28 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I feel checklists are a ridiculous, LAZY idea, what is wrong with communication, talking & discussion?


Umm, mistress, that is what they are for - to facilitate, help with, communication.

(in reply to MistressRouge)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/16/2008 1:28:45 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

How?


She had agreed to be photographed, purely for personal use, and I always put a disclaimer into my lists in that case, that ordinary copyright and IP rights apply - the work is my property, sub may use what I chose to give her privately, but not commercially, blah blah blah. Sub decided to challenge me on it, and I got a letter from her lawyers (years later) to hand over the materials, as they were her property as the model. I pointed out the facts of copyright life to them, in a letter, mentioned that I had her agreement in writing, and I'd be happy to see them in court. Never heard another word, I knew that she didn't have much money, and that the lawyers therefore wouldn't take on a case she might lose. They never even asked me for the proof, which I made clear I would produce in court, but not before. Without some emails and the checklist, I could not have made that play, and it  could have gotten very expensive.

(in reply to MistressRouge)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/16/2008 1:45:25 PM   
auburnvixen


Posts: 92
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		I keep mine up to date for occasional use in chatting with a potential new Dom; I find it helpful to let him know what I like and how much I like it without having to type everything in, as the list I use is rather extensive. It's more of a conversation piece than anything else and I'd say I use it about 20% of the time, upon request.

I have also noticed that the more experienced the Dom, the less likely he is to ask for a checklist. No idea why, just an observation, with some exceptions - for example, a very experienced Dom friend and I were going to play at an event with another couple, of whom we knew very little, and the checklists were quite useful to understanding their limits and interests during our email discussions prior to the event.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/17/2008 6:01:18 AM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: theobserver


I didn't realize it was customary in this lifestyle to exchange checklists. I believe I would find that too confining and dare I say ... boring.

I think it's best, as you said, to get to know people as you would anyone else, then if things progress to that point, share some of the ideas, scenarios or acts you are curious about or have experienced.






I don't know that I'd call exchanging checklists customary at all. I believe as with most things, some like and prefer them and some don't, some use them right away, some wait.

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(in reply to theobserver)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/17/2008 6:04:32 AM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		I found some checklists back when I was first checking this out online and one was pretty lengthy and gave me ideas of things I hadn't considered. I used it as a reference/learning tool then. Have never been one to exchange checklists, but have used them in conversation when discussing likes, dislikes, limits and curiosities.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/17/2008 6:12:16 AM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VampiresLair

I have always seen checklists as a good tool for a beginner to be able to give names to things they want to try. However, what worries me is when people depend on them. They make a decent framework for playtime, but they should never be a substitute for conversation. Unfortunately, they are more often used as a users manual for a submissive than a tool to help figure out preferences.

DV



As I mentioned in another post in the thread, I did that when I first started out and agree that they can be a good tool for a beginner to read through and see what tittilates them and what squicks them and what scares the hell out of them. I know my likes and limits and all have changed dramatically from the time I was new.

I have to agree with you there. I don't think it's a good idea for people to depend on them at all. They're good as a tool in conversation, but without discussing, they aren't worth much beyond giving one an idea of what they may like or not personally. If people depend on them, it can create problems rather then helping them understand one another's preferences. Checklists are not a substitute for communication.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/17/2008 9:21:39 AM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		~FR~

My former Dom had me do up a checklist for him so he knew what I was interested in trying. Even tho we did talk alot, he found it helpful when planning out a scene so he could encorporate a "never tried but interested in" item with out giving away what he was planning to do.

Checklists have their place just like everything else. They are only as good or as bad as the people utilizing them. But a long list of items and categories is never a replacement for actually talking to the person you are playing with.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/17/2008 12:16:29 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Lol was an A-Z one ?


Nah. Head to toe.

(in reply to MistressRouge)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/17/2008 12:39:49 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Without reading the preceeding pages I know that there will be those who are all for check lists and there will be those who are against them, and there will also be a few who eother don't know or who are confuzzled... Ahh well such is life..  From the perspective of this agine grey grizzled ursine, I like and have always favoured check lists, either written or memorized. That may well be the product of boarding school and the military with it's need for uniformity, however I know that due to some short term memory loss (due mostly to PTSD), a check list, any check list, ensures I don't forget things, about the home with my various refurbishing projects, in the kitchen (after all, recipies are naught but specialised check lists), or in the lifestyle. I enjoy working on an elongated check list regarding kink and BDSM activities with a boy or girl. It allows me to see their reaction regarding some activities, what they appear to be drawn to or are against. It does allow me to discuss limits at an early time (yes my slaves do have limits which I recognise and respect). It also allows me to see to some extent, their knowledge (and test mine when I see an activity I've not come accross before or know by another name). However this too is part of my training as a Psychologist. I think the problems arise when people get lazy and rely on check lists all the time and probably written ones at that and don't bother to stretch their own mental abilities in both knowledge or how they want to deal with the matter of BDSM activities a new sub/slave will be involved in. To which I add the problems when people attach too much importance to check lists and find they can't opperate without their comfort blanket (check list). Like so many other things, check lists are tools to be used when deemed appropriate and remembering in the final analysis, it is the human interaction between Dom and sub, Master/Mistress and slave which is important. 

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(in reply to antipode)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/17/2008 1:15:49 PM   
Riesa


Posts: 94
Joined: 5/27/2006
Status: offline
A Friend asked me to Fill in a questionaire he had created, Which i did, I think the point of the questionaire i filled in, Helped me Learn more About myself, About what I have done, Will do, Wont do, Maybe do, etc, and Learn a lot more about whats out there, Some of the Activities on the list I had never even heard of. But it was a learning act for me,
Overall I think lists can be good for a newbie, or even someone staring a new relationship, a good Ice-breaker so to speak,
Riesa


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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/17/2008 1:34:10 PM   
Hisunfoldinglily


Posts: 55
Joined: 1/30/2008
Status: offline 		Wwe always use them. It is a good starting point with negotiations. At least for Uus it is.

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/17/2008 2:34:29 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		Every term is merely a starting point for a conversation. 
  Davan

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/17/2008 6:56:29 PM   
loveandlight87


Posts: 110
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline 		Like Softness, I have used mine to see my own progress.  It was especially helpful to me in the beginning, as some one said, to put a word(s) to everything.  I created one from approximately 10 that I had seen.  I added columns for need and want, as well as a note column.  Every time I come across something new I add it.  Also, like Softness, I update and save older versions.  Mine is somewhere between 16-20 pages in Excel.  I don't feel like checklists are designed to take the place of communication, but rather a starting point.

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/17/2008 7:13:56 PM   
PurpleSockx


Posts: 63
Joined: 11/6/2008
Status: offline 		At the beginning of my relationship, both my Master and I filled a checklist. We thought that would be an interesting way to compare our interests and such and that it was just as important for me to know about his than him for mine. I never saw it as a substitute for communication. In fact, it did spark some discussions about several issues, especially curiosities. Oh and I got to learn quite a few new terms with them too and had to google a few of them to have an idea of what they meant  I, too, update it from time to time as obviously some activities can be not really appealing at first and, six months later, you can find yourself suddenly very curious about :)

(in reply to loveandlight87)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Views on BDSM Checklists - 11/18/2008 8:16:36 AM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		It was mentioned earlier in the thread about checklists being about various kinks/activities but not dealing with limits and such. I think some checklist do to an extent but not enough. A good checklist and excellent way to help communication cover as much as possible would be about more than kinks and activities and curiosities, would cover limits and fears as well and more. I wonder if such a checklist exists as yet?

Be nice to see, but I still stand by my belief that checklists are best used to facilitate full communication, discussion and compatibility to a degree rather than a be all end all to decide compatibility; and still prefer not to be hit with one right off the bat. A bdsm checklist won't tell you if you are compatible in other important areas or if you even like each other. That comes from taking time to get to know each other as people.

I know there are those who only want a D/s M/s bdsm relationship and to keep other kinds of relationships separate from that and for people other than the D or s they are with which is cool. I'm just not that kind of person. I need the mix to be able to let go.

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(in reply to PurpleSockx)
Profile   Post #: 60
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