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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/16/2008 4:37:18 PM

Politesub53

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I was hoping to last another minute, then the eggs would have been boiled to perfection.

See, I have my uses Ma`am.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/16/2008 5:01:28 PM

MsStarlett

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Polite, you know I like my eggs deviled.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/16/2008 5:42:14 PM

LadyPact

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I'm not sure if I'm understanding the whole thing properly, but I'll give it a shot.

For starters, even masochists have different reactions to pain. Not everyone interprets pain in a sexual sense. I've known bottoms that did not mix play and sex. There would be no erection at all during play. It wouldn't show up at all until the after care had begun. That was when the gears shifted somehow and the reaction changed.

Another thing that I think I should mention is, since you asked about a heavy scene, what kind of length of scene are we talking about here? Some scenes can last for several hours at a time and a bottom might be psyching himself up for that to a point where the concentration is more about physical endurance, without a thought to the sexual. Once the bottom gets to the drifting point, the body is already reacting in other ways. A masochist may get different brain chemistry from pain than the rest of us, but the physical make-up is still the same. Blood goes where it once to go, and if the body is in mode to prioritize what physically might produce life sustaining reactions, the first place it's protecting isn't necessarily going to be the penis. (Though I'm suddenly reminded about the viagra joke. If your erection lasts for more than four hours, seek medical attention. I highly doubt anyone is going to keep it up for four hours without some kind of outside influence.)

Speaking of the body protecting itself, depending on where the heavy play is being directed, could be another answer. Whether the bottom is enjoying the play or not, if the body interprets a threat to the penis, or the close surrounding area, there's a certain instinct that might come about which I call the "turtle response." In other words, the body will naturally try to protect the penis, and it will pull in as close as possible to avoid being harmed. It's not possible to get or maintain an erection if this natural instinct has taken over.

Of course, there are always the common answers. Is there a physical problem? Is there something that the bottom is linking on a psychological level with play? Could there be something that the bottom hasn't worked through on a mental level to achieve the physical result? Some bottoms won't get an erection if a certain trust level, complete with a safety and security sense for himself, can't be met. There really are a lot of possibilities.

I hope this was helpful in some way.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/16/2008 5:51:14 PM

PeonForHer

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Good god.

I'll download that lot for future reference. Thanks, LP!

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/16/2008 6:20:40 PM

MaamJay

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I've found that male subs often get hard when asked to get naked, to kneel and present themselves to Me and also in bondage. Some manage to stay aroused during wax play. But rarely is the erection maintained during impact play (though some do dribble a bit then). I agree with LP on the turtle response, it's like "get me outta here!" and in they go! They usually pop out again when the impact play is over and all the nice soothing aftercare is happening, and the blood can get redirected from brain (which has been doing all the processing) and butt/shoulders or wherever to the lower front again. So frankly, I'd be more amazed if they WERE erect during the impact session than if they're not. Yet the subs often report they were turned on by the play, just not manifesting in a sexual way. I think some are turned on more by the challenge of endurance rather than thinking about sex, since at that time they are in no position to translate desire into action.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/16/2008 6:28:01 PM

PeonForHer

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Well, all that would make sense, especially " . . . .since at that time they are in no position to translate desire into action".

Thanks for the insights, MJ.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/16/2008 6:34:18 PM

darchChylde

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Hehe, the fact that i was in no position to translate desire into action when i was 12 and had to solve algebraic equations on the chalk-board (or any other mundane task that had me standing in front of the class, you could also replace with "read my book report") in front of the class didn't keep me from having an impromptu circus pop up in the groinal region (i suspect someone, somewhere will be looking that up on a map somewhere).

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/16/2008 6:54:56 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Good god.

I'll download that lot for future reference. Thanks, LP!

Not a problem, dear. I do what I can.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/16/2008 9:27:48 PM

ShaktiSama

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I actually tend to hunt the ecstatic response in play with an intimate partner, so the erection is generally a sign that I'm still in the zone. If it goes when things get too painful or intense, it's usually because the line of not-fun and not-good is being crossed.

Although my submissive may be brave enough to endure punishment which is over that line, I'm really not the sort of domme who enjoys inflicting it. So...yes, submissive being aroused is a necessary thing. If my partner isn't having a good time--neither am I.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/16/2008 9:40:49 PM

CdnExplorer

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I'm one of those ones that can be incredibly turned on by certain types of play, but mostly mentally. Bondage and more sensual play will get me physically turned on quite quickly, though without the physical contact of my Domme that generally is short lived. Just to be clear here I'm not talking about sexual contact. Pain in the context of being controlled is incredibly arousing for me mentally, and makes me feel much closer to my Domme, but in an of itself doesn't get a huge physical response. I still love it and couldn't live without it. I didn't understand the difference between mental and physical arousal myself until a year or so ago, so it isn't surprising that erections have become some sort of "gold standard" for the desired response. I find that a bit unfortunate, since that's rather limiting.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/16/2008 9:50:19 PM

ShaktiSama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer
I didn't understand the difference between mental and physical arousal myself until a year or so ago, so it isn't surprising that erections have become some sort of "gold standard" for the desired response. I find that a bit unfortunate, since that's rather limiting.

I suppose you could regard it as "limiting", sure--BDSM is full of limits. Personally, my problem with the type of thing you're talking about is that I am neither a pure sadist who wants my partner to suffer sans pleasure nor a pure service top who cares nothing for my own enjoyment. When I play, I seek feedback from my submissive that arouses and pleases ME; all the "mental arousal" in the world wouldn't mean a thing to me if I don't get a reaction that I can enjoy.

An erection, I can enjoy--and use. A guy who zones out and disappears into his own head--not so much.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/17/2008 1:47:10 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

Hehe, the fact that i was in no position to translate desire into action when i was 12 and had to solve algebraic equations on the chalk-board (or any other mundane task that had me standing in front of the class, you could also replace with "read my book report") in front of the class didn't keep me from having an impromptu circus pop up in the groinal region (i suspect someone, somewhere will be looking that up on a map somewhere).

Funny you should mention algebra in relation to stirrings in the groinal region, dC. I discovered many years ago that mental algebra, as well as arithmetic, are unrivalled aids in getting a trouser tent to subside should one occur at an untoward moment.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/17/2008 3:38:59 AM

MsStarlett

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I'll try to remember that information.

Yesterday, after having to 'wait' for me to finish my climax... hubby was joking that it's very difficult for him NOT to 'join me when I start to sing.' He was laughing that he was trying very hard to think of sick puppies, dead kittens, old ladies... I just find a man's method of controlling his bodily functions to be quite amusing.

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It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/17/2008 4:34:23 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

I'll try to remember that information.

Yesterday, after having to 'wait' for me to finish my climax... hubby was joking that it's very difficult for him NOT to 'join me when I start to sing.' He was laughing that he was trying very hard to think of sick puppies, dead kittens, old ladies... I just find a man's method of controlling his bodily functions to be quite amusing.

It's encouraging that you've met a man who strives to control his bodily functions, Ms S. There's hope for we males yet, apparently.

None of that "disgusting physical stuff" ever worked for me in getting my trouserpython to turn back into a wrinkleworm. Get Mr Starlett to do the simplest geometric series in his head. That is: he should take 1, double it to 2, then 4, 8, 32, 64 . . . . after the fifteenth in this series, I guarantee his beast will be asleep in its lair.

Maths and arousal don't mix. If you find that they do in Mr S's case, this would indicate that he's dangerously disturbed in some way and you should call a psychiatrist without delay.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/17/2008 5:16:06 AM

DelilahDeb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

This is or those dominant women who enjoy, or at least consider, sex with their submissive or bottom (though, i would appreciate all perspectives). In a situation where you know your submissive or bottom is physically or sexually attracted to you and that he/she enjoys getting beaten/tied up/etc... what do you think when he/she is never actually physically aroused by your ministrations.

I do not specifically include or exclude sex (full on intercourse with trimmings) as a part of my dominance. That said, my kinky relationships have varying degrees of sexual play. For me, if I don't get wet or sweaty or both, I'm doing it wrong, or I'm playing with a mis-matched bottom, for example a stoic who suffers in silence and stillness. CBT is one of my enjoyable playtime activities, so I'm accustomed to a come-and-go erection being a part of the scene at such times. And not always.

And it varies considerably with the particular sub. One gentleman describes himself as a pain slut, and has lived up to that description by wearing out my primary caning shoulder. Fortunately, I've found that mixing techniques works well on him: soften him up with a steady caning, and switch to our favorite rice paddle, and his little ass rises right off the table to give me better access. <grin> I'm still testing his limits for impact plan on the balls and perineum. Although some of my play with that particular gentleman runs sexual in spots, and is very satisfying for me (as well as him), our relationship is about B&D, S&M, and D&s, and not sex. He is still discovering the range of subspace. <chuckle>

And then there's my permanent poly sub-switch relationship, which started out 30 year ago a secondary poly partnership, and has simply added new facets over time; he is sexually submissive, and an alpha human. I'm dominant to him, he's collared to his live-in secondary partner, and 40-plus years with his primary live-in, having hooked up when he was still technically jailbait. Gotta love it! We have a weekly standing date plus other play opportunities at parties locally, and I've got the full gamut of kinky and sexual options with him. But that's because we're both into the sensations and not the mental games of D&s.

darchChilde, you asked what I think? I think that watching the semaphore is a useful signal when I'm playing with someone new. If the cock happens to be in view from where I'm working. But it's only one small piece of the body English that makes up the silent communication, and I let everyone I play with know that I hope for, strive for, enjoy, and depend on some audible (not necessarily verbal, but vocal) feedback from my sub/bottom play partner. It's a partnership, even if I never play with that partner again.

Lady Delilah Deb

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/17/2008 6:08:25 AM

thetammyjo

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Even after 9 years all I have to do to help trigger arousal in Fox is hug him or kiss him. Extreme bondage is also a big turn on to him as are his few fetishes. I never expect him to get aroused by SM though he has developed an enjoyment for very minor forms of it over our years.

I never expect him to get an erection period all the time. I know enough about men to know that is a social and cultural expectation that does not reflect biological or psychological reality. Getting on board with reality is a great way to control any negative feelings you can get in a Ds relationship.

Whether or not he has an erection is almost unnecessary for the types of sex we have. He has a mouth, hands, the rest of his body plus some toys. He is a skilled enough lover that he need not rely entirely or even mostly on just one body part.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 11/17/2008 6:10:25 AM >

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/17/2008 6:30:14 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Yes, Tammyjo DOES have a fabulous slave!

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/17/2008 6:40:03 AM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Yes, Tammyjo DOES have a fabulous slave!

Fox is a good match for me. I wouldn't say he was a fabulous slave or even a slave in general.

I think though that part of why we work well is that we have realistic expectations of ourselves, each other, and this relationship.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/17/2008 6:43:13 AM

LadyHibiscus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Yes, Tammyjo DOES have a fabulous slave!

Fox is a good match for me. I wouldn't say he was a fabulous slave or even a slave in general.

I think though that part of why we work well is that we have realistic expectations of ourselves, each other, and this relationship.

All perfectly true, but your relationship is unusual in its long term success---which is due not ony to your compatibility, but to how much all of you work toward maintaining your household's connection.

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RE: Submissive not getting turned on? - 11/17/2008 3:57:49 PM

StrictnSaucy

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Has there been a shift in the relationship? Did it start out very focused on bdsm and now more vanilla things (I mean a mind set - not lack of play) are coming into force. If so, likely its only a phase (mind shift) that needs to be dealt with.

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