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RE: Michael Collins - 11/16/2008 5:28:30 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I knew I could count on you.....

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Michael Collins - 11/16/2008 5:35:54 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		Seriously, mike, what manner of Irishman are you posting about Michael Collins while drinking Jack's?  Shouldn't it be Jameson's or Bushmills?

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RE: Michael Collins - 11/16/2008 6:04:52 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Well CL in my defence Jack's is a habit I first picked up at a young and tender age.Firmly believing in picking a specialty and being good at....I have practiced for years and achieved a level of proficiency one can be proud of.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Michael Collins - 11/16/2008 6:04:59 PM   
Satyr6406


Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
Status: offline 		Okay. I am going to end this argument; once and for all I am NOT a terrorist.
 
 
           Michael P. Xxxxxxx

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Peace and comfort,


Michael

Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

(in reply to celticlord2112)
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RE: Michael Collins - 11/16/2008 6:06:04 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Well satyr having read a number of your post's......

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Michael Collins - 11/16/2008 6:07:32 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
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quote:

Michael Collins


never heard of him...but, of course, i avoid the news.


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RE: Michael Collins - 11/16/2008 6:09:38 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

quote:

Michael Collins


never heard of him...but, of course, i avoid the news.

Ignorence is never something to be celebrated....rather it is something to be attended to.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Michael Collins - 11/16/2008 6:11:50 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline 		i don't see it as ignorance, i see it as avoiding depressionary BS...LOL

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RE: Michael Collins - 11/16/2008 6:14:01 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		And historical figures,one dead almost a hundred years often feel like depressionary BS to you....so why post on the thread .

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to michaelOfGeorgia)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Michael Collins - 11/16/2008 6:16:06 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline 		nevermind then

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RE: Michael Collins - 11/16/2008 10:47:41 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		The term terrorist did exist then and was quite an old word. 'Finnians' were called  terrorists during the 19th century. What changed in Collins' time was that socialism was on the rise in the British workingclass and the British government was quite sensitive about wafting the fire. Britain itself had at times been close to rvolution, as Churchill said about unemployment insurance in 1911(?), avoiding revolution for 12 shillings and 6 pence is cheap at the price. The USA called Sitting Bull a 'terrorist' and threatened to invade Canada for harbouring a 'terrorist'. (I read that in the museum of the RCMP) in Regina(I think). It seems a matter of politics as to when a desenting group is labeled terrorists or not.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/16/2008 10:57:41 PM >

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RE: Michael Collins - 11/17/2008 12:19:32 AM   
osocurious


Posts: 676
Joined: 11/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

I had a great uncle executed by the British. He was IRA at the beginning. just saying :) 


did he deserve it?? ... just wonder'n :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.



Truer words have NEVER been spoken


< Message edited by osocurious -- 11/17/2008 12:23:37 AM >

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RE: Michael Collins - 11/17/2008 2:13:21 AM   
Darias


Posts: 1757
Joined: 1/17/2006
From: midlands ireland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Now CL would you not be the first to defend my inalienable right to choose my own form of libation?

I may not agree with what you drink, but I shall defend to the last drop your right to drink it!
(with apologies to The Friends of Voltaire)



what does it say about  me that what came to mind at this quote wasnt voltaire but an episode of futurama?


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** may you live in interesting times**

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RE: Michael Collins - 11/17/2008 2:41:56 AM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
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From: UK
Status: offline 		Bender, my co-worker.
Now there was a terrorist

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RE: Michael Collins - 11/17/2008 4:43:55 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osocurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

I had a great uncle executed by the British. He was IRA at the beginning. just saying :) 


did he deserve it?? ... just wonder'n :)



The irony is, it was the executions of the 15 leaders and not the uprisings (which causedabout 500 deaths, mainly civilians) that really was the catalyst that led to home rule. It united the Irish nationists and many English were revulsed by it too. So indirectly, taking up arms did get the result the leaders wanted but not in the way they had in mind. Without the executions of the leaders, there priobably wouldn't have been enough solid support in Ireland for home rule.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/17/2008 4:45:13 AM >

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: Michael Collins - 11/17/2008 4:49:39 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

what does it say about me that what came to mind at this quote wasnt voltaire but an episode of futurama?

Too much TV and not enough scotch.


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RE: Michael Collins - 11/17/2008 6:05:26 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: osocurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

I had a great uncle executed by the British. He was IRA at the beginning. just saying :) 


did he deserve it?? ... just wonder'n :)



The irony is, it was the executions of the 15 leaders and not the uprisings (which causedabout 500 deaths, mainly civilians) that really was the catalyst that led to home rule. It united the Irish nationists and many English were revulsed by it too. So indirectly, taking up arms did get the result the leaders wanted but not in the way they had in mind. Without the executions of the leaders, there priobably wouldn't have been enough solid support in Ireland for home rule.
In fact the Irish population scorned the occupiers of the GPO,they were spit on and rediculed as they were marched off to prison.The curious decision by the Brits to drag out the executions,rather than shoot the whole lot of them at the same time,blew up in their face.Collins and de Velera both were slated for execution but the public relations disaster led the British to put a halt to weekly exercise.A decision they might have come to regret.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Michael Collins - 11/17/2008 6:44:46 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Well the thing is- the Irish have the balls to not cave into this dreadful globalization!

Long live the nation state!!!  fuck globalism!


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Michael Collins - 11/17/2008 6:48:36 AM   
Darias


Posts: 1757
Joined: 1/17/2006
From: midlands ireland
Status: offline 		*pmsl* we do???

_____________________________

**Perving or perusing... it gets me the same place.**


**May Gods come between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk**


** may you live in interesting times**

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Michael Collins - 11/18/2008 1:50:16 PM   
gumshoe


Posts: 68
Joined: 10/13/2008
Status: offline 		Resentment of British mis-rule in the Twenty-Six Counties is understandable enough. The British Aristocracy had a deplorable laise-faire attitude that put profits before people. Hence the potato famine and the everlasting ill-will it seems to have produced in some folks. 'We couldn't care less if you starve so long as we're maximising profits.'

That said, I don't if the working class in Scotland, Wales and indeed England would have received any better treatment from the said Aristocracy.

So yes I suppose it could be safely said that Michael Collins did have a popular mandate, perhaps not just in Ireland, to end British rule there. Everyone living there wanted them out.

I'm not so sure that the same could be said of the IRA everyone generally talks about the Provisional IRA, which broke away from the Official IRA in the early '70s. Some folks in the remaining six counties (Ulster) wanted to be part of the Irish Republic and the rest wanted things to stay as they were. Not everyone living there wanted them out.

Using violence PIRA pursued an agenda that didn't have a popular mandate and to me that qualifies it as a terrorist body.


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