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Trekkies - 11/17/2008 2:15:01 AM   
Termyn8or


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I have mentioned this before. Now is a good time because it is the middle of the night and for a change I am actually getting drunk. Normally I never want to get incoherent but today it is 4:30 AM and I ain't going to sleep until I can't walk. All I need to remember is to be nice on CM and don't touch the phone.

I watched TOS, every one of them, even the ones they lost somehow. I remember things.

For example in "Piece Of The Action" I remember a hooker coming up to one of the local bosse's henchmen to complain about the streetlight being out. That was edited out a long time ago. Kinda like The Day The Earth Stood Still. I remember Klatoo outlining the plan to the UN and the Russian delegate saying "Russia will never agree to it" to which Klatoo replied "Then there'll be no Russia". That part probably hit the cutting room floor before I ever has sex. Then in a discussion I was told of a part that I did not remember, when the Woman was in the cab with Klatoo and said that she wanted to go with him. Klatoo, boradus, nikto.

Similarly, many episodes of TOS were lost somehow. I watched it in syndication for quite some time and some episodes just seemed to disappear. I won't even attempt to download these, I would have to buy another harddrive first. But then that is not my point.

Many ethical and moral questions were raised, especially in Roddenberry's day. Like in TNG, the two planets that had enough technology to get to one another and had had a disease. A drug was developed on one of the planets and they were selling it to the other planet. The disease was gone, but the drug was somewhat narcotic and the inhabitants of the one planet were addicted to it. They show up in rags, their ship is pretty much what we would call a shitcan and Piccard helped them out. Until he got wind of the whole situation. The other planet though was doing really well, the people from there dressed in fine robes and all that. They were just going to be good samaritans and give them the parts for their ship, but toward the end Piccard said no.

Take your drugs, this and that but we ain't fixing the ship. The ragtags were pleading, seemingly for their lives and the rich bitches were pissed off as well. One planet's population was exploiting another's. All they had to do was get off the stuff, the rich planet had done this, and it was found that they knew exactly what they were doing. Piccard told Crusher that the prime directive prohibited it. She was the one who found that these people no longer had the disease, but did not understand. She also did not understand why he did not allow her to treat the addiction, nor even tell them that the drug was not necessary. Looks like an interplanetary war coming up soon eh ?

Then we have the original Menagerie (sp) and it's sequel with Spock taking Captain Pike back to Tallos 4, somehow skirting the only death penalty they had still on the books.

I watched TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager. TV will never be that good again. So any thoughts on this ? I think the whole thing was fantastic. It took them years to do it, but they even figured out a way to explain how all these aliens spoke English.

Fascinating, as Spock would say.

Any thoughts ?

T

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 2:30:00 AM   
Darias


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over the years i have had many drunken or stoned  or on rare occasions sober conversations with friends most of whom ill admit are a bigger gang of nerds than bill  gates associated with in college , about the star trek universe in general and roddenberrys genius in particular

the ferengi... the ultimate capitalists... where every action or word is tweaked in order to get just one more bar of gold pressed latnium

the federation.... either a dazzled up view of those evil commies from way back where everything is buy the people for the people and what the society has is shared

the ocampa from voyager.... a friendly poke at american society reminding them that as a country they are very young and still need the far off older wiser *caretaker* to help them along (not sure i agreed with this one even when inebriated)

then of course there was the vulcans.... a demonstration of how society  ends up if one blindly follows science and logical

the klingons.... how basing your life around religion leads to constant battle

the list goes on and on

and with those wonderfull pokes at life on our planet taken to extremes and stereotyped in alien species we also had good storys (yes even though kirk  seemed to get busy every episode and geordi seemed to be reversing the polarity on things constantly * see humor boards for reference * )

all in all the star trek series was one of the most under appreciated of its time

but Term... i notice you didnt mention star trek enterprise in your thread? any particular reason?

p.s. since it seems to be a US thing who can explain the whole difference between trekkers/trekkies?


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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 2:36:43 AM   
BbwCanaDomme


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I thought this would be a thread about the new Star Trek film trailer that leaked....I have officially lost interest haha

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 3:24:54 AM   
Termyn8or


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I pretty much had stopped watching TV when Enterprise came out. I am also not pleased with the guy from Quantum Leap, I just don't like something about him. I can't put my finger on it, it's just a personal preference. Add to that the fact that Enterprise went backwards in time from even TOS. The whole thing turned me off so I turned it off.

Also, I believe it was the second season of TNG, I couldn't stand it because it was like a soap opera. Of course I saw all the movies up to Insurrection, something about that turned me off as well. One might not wonder why once aware of my political views. You think I'm a reolutionary now, back then I was scary. Also DS9 was not my favorite, because of political reasons for me, but I did watch most of it. I did like how they introduced it though, with a General getting busted and Ensign Roe getting a post on the Enterprise.

I thought the seasonal cliffhangers of TNG were quite good. I would record half of it of course and put the tape away, in position to record the second half.I have all of them on VHS.

Not that I want to hijack myself here, but does anyone remember the first season of War Of The Worlds ? I thought that was good, until the Mancuso brothers took it over and changed everything.

Actually I think Rodenberry was a genius, and I mean really. I think his death was the death knell for the series. However when I started paying more attention I found that ol Gene did not actually write all of the episodes in TOS. The episodes he wrote had a certain,,,,,,, flavor to them to speak metaphorically. I expected it to die off after Roddenberry's death. It did, it held on for a while but whatever it had once was gone.

I was actually named after Jeffrey Hunter, Captain Pike if you will. The family was looking for names and with almost all boys back then we used up a bunch of names. So they went with it. Do I care ? No. I thought I would mention that, but I was born in 1960, so that came out of those old religious movies. I knew nothing about this until eventually we watched an episode with Pike in it.

So maybe I was born a Trekkie ?

Like I said I am out to get drunk, it is after six AM, so I am going to try to walk to the bedroom. If I don't fall down I will be right back.If I fall down, see you tomorrow.

T

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 3:28:14 AM   
RainydayNE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darias

over the years i have had many drunken or stoned  or on rare occasions sober conversations with friends


hahaha :)
on rare occasions :)

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 3:31:04 AM   
Darias


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ever tried talking nerd when sober ??? its ugly 

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** may you live in interesting times**

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 4:09:55 AM   
lazarus1983


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darias


p.s. since it seems to be a US thing who can explain the whole difference between trekkers/trekkies?



Trek fans attempted to coin the term "trekkers" because "trekkies" usually carries with it a very negative stereotype. However at one Star Trek convention, when Gene Rodenberry was giving a speech, he used "trekkie" and someone attempted to correct him. Rodenberry's comeback? "No, it's trekkie. I know, I created you."

Also, Darias, the Klingons don't have a religion. They killed all their gods. All that remains is a demon that carries the dishonored dead down to wherever they go.

And yes, Star Trek will forever be underappreciated for its contributions not just science fiction, but to our world in general. It really doesn't help that the last two shows, Voyager and Enterprise, have been utter dogshit. And now we have JJ Abrams coming along who's intent to finish off the job and then gleefully rape the corpse of what's left.

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 4:12:25 AM   
Darias


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darias


p.s. since it seems to be a US thing who can explain the whole difference between trekkers/trekkies?



Trek fans attempted to coin the term "trekkers" because "trekkies" usually carries with it a very negative stereotype. However at one Star Trek convention, when Gene Rodenberry was giving a speech, he used "trekkie" and someone attempted to correct him. Rodenberry's comeback? "No, it's trekkie. I know, I created you."

Also, Darias, the Klingons don't have a religion. They killed all their gods. All that remains is a demon that carries the dishonored dead down to wherever they go.

And yes, Star Trek will forever be underappreciated for its contributions not just science fiction, but to our world in general. It really doesn't help that the last two shows, Voyager and Enterprise, have been utter dogshit. And now we have JJ Abrams coming along who's intent to finish off the job and then gleefully rape the corpse of what's left.


are you sure they have no religion .... ?

if memory serves along with having a "hell" for the dishonored dead they have a "heaven" for those who die honorably ... stovakor or something .... it has been a while


_____________________________

**Perving or perusing... it gets me the same place.**


**May Gods come between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk**


** may you live in interesting times**

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 4:15:26 AM   
lazarus1983


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darias

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darias


p.s. since it seems to be a US thing who can explain the whole difference between trekkers/trekkies?



Trek fans attempted to coin the term "trekkers" because "trekkies" usually carries with it a very negative stereotype. However at one Star Trek convention, when Gene Rodenberry was giving a speech, he used "trekkie" and someone attempted to correct him. Rodenberry's comeback? "No, it's trekkie. I know, I created you."

Also, Darias, the Klingons don't have a religion. They killed all their gods. All that remains is a demon that carries the dishonored dead down to wherever they go.

And yes, Star Trek will forever be underappreciated for its contributions not just science fiction, but to our world in general. It really doesn't help that the last two shows, Voyager and Enterprise, have been utter dogshit. And now we have JJ Abrams coming along who's intent to finish off the job and then gleefully rape the corpse of what's left.


are you sure they have no religion .... ?

if memory serves along with having a "hell" for the dishonored dead they have a "heaven" for those who die honorably ... stovakor or something .... it has been a while



True, they do have the place for the dishonored dead, as well as Sto'Vo'Kor, but it's not considered a religion for whatever reason.

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 4:19:23 AM   
Darias


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983


True, they do have the place for the dishonored dead, as well as Sto'Vo'Kor, but it's not considered a religion for whatever reason.


and how the hell can it not be . in my mind belief in an afterlife , a place where ones spirit goes after the body is dead is the very definition of a religion ... or more importantly the belief in something that has never been proven without a doubt .. both these are the cornerstones of any religion





_____________________________

**Perving or perusing... it gets me the same place.**


**May Gods come between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk**


** may you live in interesting times**

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 4:35:53 AM   
lazarus1983


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Well I suspect the actual reason is that, with the exception of DS9, Star Trek has always tried to steer clear of religion and its accompanying entanglements.

What the Klingons believe in has always been simply considered a "belief structure" and not necessarily a religion. The same way that Hinduism and Buddhism is or is not a religion. The same way that there's a difference between religions and mythologies.

You may think it's a religion, but the writers that wrote it and the producers that produced it choose not to classify it as such.

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 4:48:19 AM   
manxcat


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In Klingon religion, the original gods who created the first Klingons were slain by their own creations, because they were "more trouble than they were worth". (DS9: "Homefront") A version of this creation myth is told during the traditional Klingon wedding ceremony: (DS9: "You Are Cordially Invited
from: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Klingon_religion

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The television, that insidious beast, that Medusa which freezes a
billion people to stone every night, staring fixedly,
that Siren which called and sang and promised so much and gave, after all, so little.
Ray Bradbury


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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 4:51:29 AM   
manxcat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

edited for brevity - manxcat
I was actually named after Jeffrey Hunter, Captain Pike if you will. The family was looking for names and with almost all boys back then we used up a bunch of names. So they went with it. Do I care ? No. I thought I would mention that, but I was born in 1960, so that came out of those old religious movies. I knew nothing about this until eventually we watched an episode with Pike in it.

So maybe I was born a Trekkie ?

Like I said I am out to get drunk, it is after six AM, so I am going to try to walk to the bedroom. If I don't fall down I will be right back.If I fall down, see you tomorrow.

T



Star Trek is an American science fiction entertainment series and media franchise. The Star Trek fictional universe created by Gene Roddenberry is the setting of six television series including the original 1966 Star Trek, in addition to ten feature films with an eleventh in post-production to be   from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek



Sounds like your parents were having a bit of fun with you.

_____________________________

The television, that insidious beast, that Medusa which freezes a
billion people to stone every night, staring fixedly,
that Siren which called and sang and promised so much and gave, after all, so little.
Ray Bradbury


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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 4:55:30 AM   
manxcat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Well I suspect the actual reason is that, with the exception of DS9, Star Trek has always tried to steer clear of religion and its accompanying entanglements.

What the Klingons believe in has always been simply considered a "belief structure" and not necessarily a religion. The same way that Hinduism and Buddhism is or is not a religion. The same way that there's a difference between religions and mythologies.

You may think it's a religion, but the writers that wrote it and the producers that produced it choose not to classify it as such.


Just curious, where would you place Native American, African, and Australian Aboriginal spiritual beliefs?


manxcat


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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 4:57:37 AM   
lazarus1983


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quote:

ORIGINAL: manxcat


In Klingon religion, the original gods who created the first Klingons were slain by their own creations, because they were "more trouble than they were worth". (DS9: "Homefront") A version of this creation myth is told during the traditional Klingon wedding ceremony: (DS9: "You Are Cordially Invited
from: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Klingon_religion


Hey look, I can cut and paste too!

Ritual was a very important element in Klingon society. While the Klingons were not a religious people as such, they did believe that deities existed at one time. However, Klingon warriors supposedly slew their gods as they were considered to be more trouble than they were worth.

also from: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Klingon

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 5:00:23 AM   
lazarus1983


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quote:

ORIGINAL: manxcat

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Well I suspect the actual reason is that, with the exception of DS9, Star Trek has always tried to steer clear of religion and its accompanying entanglements.

What the Klingons believe in has always been simply considered a "belief structure" and not necessarily a religion. The same way that Hinduism and Buddhism is or is not a religion. The same way that there's a difference between religions and mythologies.

You may think it's a religion, but the writers that wrote it and the producers that produced it choose not to classify it as such.


Just curious, where would you place Native American, African, and Australian Aboriginal spiritual beliefs?


manxcat


___________________
Artists make lousy slaves. -Jody Jenson


I personally believe every religion and mythology and spiritual belief to be nonsense. As such, I let those that believe and practice it label it what they will.

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 5:03:37 AM   
Darias


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_____________________________

**Perving or perusing... it gets me the same place.**


**May Gods come between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk**


** may you live in interesting times**

(in reply to lazarus1983)
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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 8:51:01 AM   
Satyr6406


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I once did an entire article based upon the sterilization of war (interpolating "A Taste of Armageddon"). Roddenberry was a visionary. No doubt about it.

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Michael


Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 11:14:04 AM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: manxcat

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

edited for brevity - manxcat
I was actually named after Jeffrey Hunter, Captain Pike if you will. The family was looking for names and with almost all boys back then we used up a bunch of names. So they went with it. Do I care ? No. I thought I would mention that, but I was born in 1960, so that came out of those old religious movies. I knew nothing about this until eventually we watched an episode with Pike in it.

So maybe I was born a Trekkie ?

Like I said I am out to get drunk, it is after six AM, so I am going to try to walk to the bedroom. If I don't fall down I will be right back.If I fall down, see you tomorrow.

T



Sounds like your parents were having a bit of fun with you.


But the actor Jeffrey Hunter was born in 1926, so they were looking for a name and said 'how about Jeffrey' or some such. How is that making fun of him? The fact that Hunter didn't play Pike until later in the 60's doesn't mean they didn't get the idea of that name from that actor.

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RE: Trekkies - 11/17/2008 4:00:14 PM   
Termyn8or


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1926 ? Wow, never realized how old he was, but that's not uncommon. Just never thought about it, in 1966 he was forty.

I want to get back to Darius' point at this time if everbody doesn't mind. I too saw the various factions or something like that in the traits of many of the aliens created by Roddenberry. But then being on Earth, what else would shape his imagination ?

However I wanted to get more specific. Episodes that challenge more than just technological curiousity, and believe me there were a few things I found hard to swallow in that regard because I was into it.

But that was not my intent, subject wise. Consider the episode "Balance Of Power". This is when Kirk stole the cloaking device from the Romulans. A clear act of espionage and sabotage, yet it was OK because they had used it to destroy a bunch of Federation outposts. Of course Kirk got them, but simply because they had that weapon, we had to have it as well. Sound familiar ? Then they outlaw the thing.

Of course that did not stop Riker's ex-captain from going on with his phased cloak, which enables a ship to hide within solid matter when activated. Another such thing was multi-phasic shielding which would allow a ship to hide within a star. Yup no more need to hide in a nebula anymore.

And we haven't even touched on time travel yet. I thought "Gateway To Forever" was quite interesting. Broad has to die or else we all die. There's an ethical question if I ever heard one.

And then remember what it was like at the end of part one of "The Doomsday Machine" when the words appear "TO BE CONTINUED". Talk about ensuring good ratings next week. Can you even imagine not watching part two ? I actually have that back to back as well on VHS.

Unlike when I was a kid and we had to shutup during Star Trek or suffer the consequences, in syndication I recorded most of them, and if people would not shutup I had about a 600 watt sound system, and I mean a real 600 watts, not like the junk in the stores today. It was pretty good with the five foot Advent TV. My surround was good enough that for example if the Enterprise flew off screen toward the viewer, the sound would move to the back. Of course TOS was not in stereo and therefore surround was impossible, but TNG was and so were whatever movies back then. I would not buy a VCR if it was not hifi. I can't really shed the name Trekkie, as I still have a BETA hifi.

While others went to Kmart (there was no Walmart here at the time) and bought VCRs for less than a hundred bucks, each of mine cost over five hundred. I was serious about this shit at one time.

I don't really watch TV anymore. Nothing inspires me to do so. I don't like how the new shows are made, the camera angles and so forth, and I am not impressed by the subject matter either. I guess Roddenberry spoiled me for the other shows.

Who was the other person who wrote some of TOS episodes ? I seem to remember D.C. Fontana or something like that. The ones he wrote usually had war and conflict of some sort. I'm sure this was done under Roddenberry's auspices. But they were good as well, in fact "Balance Of Power" may have been written by Fontana, that is if I got the name right.

I am going to have to drag that VHS out and hook it up one of these days. Might happen in February.

T

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