RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / s types.

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/17/2008 4:16:51 PM

StrictnSaucy

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No worries, my comment needed clarification anyway!

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/17/2008 4:22:57 PM

OrionTheWolf

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That story is about the disgusting slave trade, where girls are brought into a country to work in the sex industry but they keep none of their money.

There is actually decent sex trades in several countries that have good regulations concerning it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrictnSaucy

Christine, not sure if your comment was directed at me or not - but to clarify what I mean by sex trade here is an example www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/0910/1220919678635.html

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/17/2008 4:23:27 PM

monywildcat

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If I didn't have stretch marks, I would be more than happy to be a dancer. I wouldn't see myself as being exploited, or empowered, or anything other than someone that is doing what she enjoys, and getting paid for it. Now, if sex were involved, I would have a problem with it for me personally. My hypothetical customers can look at the turkey dinner, but can't get a bite. I have hypothetically chosen that intercourse is not part of the menu. A hot lap dance, good conversation (something I always look forward to when I go to the strip club, usually when it's not packed) a peek at my new boots? Yes. Penetration? No. Not from me.

I have, however, felt greatly exploited in other jobs that didn't involve me engaging in anything remotely erotic. Those of us living in cubicles during the work day can just as easily be taken advantage of as the strippers in that dive downtown.

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/17/2008 4:25:34 PM

OrionTheWolf

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My girl has some prett bad stretch marks from her first pregnancy. I have her tan with some pretty expensive tanning/bronzing stuff and the stretch marks pretty much blend in except under close inspection. If you are fit and tone otherwise, and actually know how to dance in an alluring fashion, the customers do not usually even notice that much.

quote:

ORIGINAL: monywildcat

If I didn't have stretch marks, I would be more than happy to be a dancer. I wouldn't see myself as being exploited, or empowered, or anything other than someone that is doing what she enjoys, and getting paid for it. Now, if sex were involved, I would have a problem with it for me personally. My hypothetical customers can look at the turkey dinner, but can't get a bite. I have hypothetically chosen that intercourse is not part of the menu. A hot lap dance, good conversation (something I always look forward to when I go to the strip club, usually when it's not packed) a peek at my new boots? Yes. Penetration? No. Not from me.

I have, however, felt greatly exploited in other jobs that didn't involve me engaging in anything remotely erotic. Those of us living in cubicles during the work day can just as easily be taken advantage of as the strippers in that dive downtown.

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/17/2008 5:56:52 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darias

perhaps if your daughter was in that profession having her neighbors look down on her and her family would effect her life yes ...

and were she in that profession people would have a very different opinion of you too im sure

however it would be up to your daughter and you how much effect those opinions had on your life .

Eleanor Roosevelt said * no one can make you feel negative about yourself unless you allow them ( paraphrasing ) *

but since you and your daughter would be letting those opinionated neighbors choose your job for you why not hand over you bank cards .. so they can choose how to spend your money ? ask their advice before dressing in the morning so as not to offend them with bright colors . show them your daughter or grandchilds report card and ask what they suggest you do about it ..

unless you yourself choose to give up control of your choices in life , then you have a responsibility to make those choices based on what YOU think is right and accept those consequences yourself

after all if your daughter chooses pverty rather than offend her neighbors .. will the neighbors pay her rent ?

Your statement is too simplistic and shortsighted. The way people think may affect your options for relationships and employment and housing in the future.

You would be wrong if just because that behavior would be considered job discrimination and illegal people wouldn't do it… they would. Like it or not it would limit relationships. Lets face it ...not the type of person to bring home to mom and dad.

I'm not judging people but I think I am telling like it is not how we think it should be.

Butch

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/17/2008 6:45:33 PM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IAMChristine

who the fuck cares? wow, if they are supporting themselves then great. shut the fuck up and mind your own business. "to each their own" ever heard that phrase?

no harm, no foul. whatever comes their way comes their way. don't mind your pretty "little" mind about it. holy shit..i can't believe the attitudes of some people around here.

Hmm, i assume that was aimed at me for asking about this in the first place. A slight over reaction on your part perhaps? I see noone who has berated or said anything wrong about people working in these jobs. What ya getting your panties in a twist about?

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/17/2008 7:04:00 PM

IAMChristine

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nope, not aimed at you either miss...not aimed at anyone, like i said, just a general vent.

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/17/2008 7:46:17 PM

SOsMINE

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My Aunt was in this profession years ago, She made excellent money and supported her and her son. I have never lost respect for her ever. She told me it was a job that paid better than any job that was available for her. Like so many here in their comments I believe as well that it is a job choice that they make. She never once had a regret for her decision on being an exotic dancer. She never felt exploited or empowered. Just as some would say women in men's mags are exploited. I don't believe that either.

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/17/2008 7:53:05 PM

GreedyTop

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I danced for a brief period of time. It was a job, nothing more. I didnt make decent money at it though, because I totally can NOT dance! LOL

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/17/2008 8:05:31 PM

Elisabella

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-FR-

I can't say whether these jobs in general are empowering, exploitative, or neither, because everyone's an individual and reacts in different ways. I mean just look at BDSM - a sub would feel exploited if their partner wanted them to dominate, and a dom would feel exploited if their partner wanted tehm to submit, but both feel pretty empowered in their own role, no?p

For me however, just placing myself into these positions (I've been a pro-D but am NOT dancer material) - Being a pro-D or a dancer or even phone sex girl would feel empowering and fun, because I'm selling a fantasy. I'm basically acting, going out there and sexxing it up, but pushing all my energy outward and not letting the customer into my own personal space. They wouldn't know my name or my actual 'turn ons' - it would be a constructed fantasy for my amusement and his desire.

Being a pro-s would make me feel exploited, because I'm an s-type in my personal relationships. I wouldn't want to sell that.

Being an escort would make me feel exploited because I would be under obligation to give my client sexual pleasure. Sex is something meaningful to me, and intimate. I don't mind teasing and arousing, but intimate touching is where I personally draw the line.

I think it would be interesting to survey other women who have worked in one or more of these industries, and see what their feelings are about the others.

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/18/2008 4:35:46 AM

MadAxeman

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MissT also watches Goldenballs and that exploits dumb people.

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/18/2008 6:19:06 AM

Darias

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Your statement is too simplistic and shortsighted. The way people think may affect your options for relationships and employment and housing in the future.

You would be wrong if just because that behavior would be considered job discrimination and illegal people wouldn't do it… they would. Like it or not it would limit relationships. Lets face it ...not the type of person to bring home to mom and dad.

I'm not judging people but I think I am telling like it is not how we think it should be.

Butch

alright ill endeavor to be more specific and detailed

lets start with relationships

assuming someone was involved in any of these trades. assuming they were in the market for a long term relationship
can you imagine having an interest in someone judging you based on your job? can you imagine having an interest in someone who judges so quickly?
for most of us employment is or should be a means to an end. a way of payng for the things in life we need or want. a job gives us the ability to live our lives that much more fuller.
with this in mind surely someone who judges you on how you gain the money needed to enjoy or survive in life would be uninteresting as a partner. after all if they judge so quickly on where you work how quickly and harshly will you be judged because of your friends? the color of your carpets? your taste in music.
if the D/s world proves anything it is that the greatest relationships are those where each partner accepts the other as is and builds a relationship on common interest...

next you mentioned employment

since we are discussing people who are already employed in this " questionable" field this would seem a moot point. but im choosing to assume you mean future employment?

so you spent 10 years of your life working as an exotic dancer.. and now decide you want a PR job
you have two choices that i can see.

be honest and fill out your application stating your previous work and your recent qualifications in the PR industry . true more narrowminded companys will balk at the thought of hiring an ex stripper. but probably most will care only about the qualification involved

the second option is fib... write that you worked in the entertainment industry... not entirely a lie more a variation on the truth. chances are that a PR company is only going to care about the employment history and education relevant to your applied position.

the third thing you mentioned was housing

i may be incorrect but in my experience with renting my landlords only gave a damn that the check was on time. never once do i recall being asked if i worked in a job which may offend their sensibilities. i would wonder if discriminating against someone who can pay the rent based on their place of employment is legal

i feel extremly sorry for you if you have chosen partners based on mom and dads opinion

never once have i asked my parents whether my chosen partner was acceptable to them or not
and honestly they only gave a damn that said partner made ME happy. after all neither of them planned on marrying her

the difference between how it is and how it should be goes back to eleanor roosovelt .

you can choose to accept the judgement of others without blinking an eyelash
or you can choose to believe they have no right to judge you and act accordingly

like it or not only the laws of the land and the deity of your beliefs can judge you indiscriminatly
anyone else tries its your responsiblity as an adult to set them straight

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/18/2008 7:00:24 AM

kdsub

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Darias..I wish you were right...but you are in a dreamland..I stick by what I said.. I am telling it like it is not how it should be.

Butch..

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/18/2008 8:12:19 AM

Darias

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fair enough

i apprecaite the effort you went to in proving me wrong rather than just saying " im right your not end of story" as some people with no basis for their opinions might have

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/18/2008 8:24:47 AM

RCdc

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Darias, yanno I agree with what you say. I just think it is good to point out that I believe Butch(and will correct me if I am wrong) but he isn't from the UK. I think that makes a big difference on perceptions too.

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 11/18/2008 8:25:06 AM >

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/18/2008 9:09:58 AM

Darias

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Yanks are more judgemental than the rest of us?

ok your right ill stop.... I`ll agree to disagree with you butch.... no more to be said between us on the subject

Darias

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/18/2008 9:12:44 AM

RCdc

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I don't think it about being judgemental, they just have a different social structure there and although it is a bigger country, privacy is more of an issue there. It might be a bigger place, but people are squeezed into tiny areas. Plus they have the whole religious fundementalism front to contend with over there, which we don't tend to have. It's still a very young country in comparrison.

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 11/18/2008 9:13:46 AM >

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/18/2008 9:17:33 AM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Watching tv today and there was a debate about whether lap / pole dancing exploited or empowered women. The common belief was it exploited them because of the seedy background most people believe exists in the clubs where the women work. Amazingly drugs were only mentioned once, a lot of the decision seemed to rest on the fact that the women in the clubs were probably having sex with the customers.
It appeared that if you took the sex out of the equation the people in the debate would be perfectly ok with women being lap dancers. So now i'm curious as always as to what you think.
If lap dancers, escorts, and pro d types and s types are definately NOT having sex with their customers is it an ok career choice?
Do you think WITHOUT sex being involved it empowers women or exploits them?
Why?
Does your answer change if sex becomes involved?

Why do people need to be empowered, a job is just a job, a means to earn money to live. Others might get more out of employment, but the bottom line is money to survive. I don't buy this thing where people are 'forced' into doing something as a job, addiction type scenarios might be different, but if there are people around seeking to ask questions about empowerment for so called 'sex trades', they would be better off helping people to get out of these situations rather than write papers about it and impose their views on everyone else.

Perhaps it is the feminists that are making the noise, the same people who identified and coined the phrase, 'The Male Gaze', quite rightly so, art, advertising etc has traditionally been to empower the male point of view, but that has largely changed, the feminist movement has caused change and centuries worth of change in just a few years. What do they seek now, a complete reversal.

I am currently reading 'The Female Gaze' by Loraine Gamman and Margaret Marshment, so far it is proving interesting. I always like to get another viewpoint on things. But given I like another viewpoint, then perhaps these academics who debate so much on TV, might like to get the viewpoint of the actual people involved and take what they say, not discard because they have a degree in whatever social science, i.e. they believe they know better.

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/18/2008 11:00:40 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darias

fair enough

i apprecaite the effort you went to in proving me wrong rather than just saying " im right your not end of story" as some people with no basis for their opinions might have

Darias...this is not an argument...we have both stated opinions...there is nothing to prove. We are both going by our life experiences.

I think what people in CM tend to forget is that the rest of the world "so called vanilla world" is not as free or understanding as we are here.

ps... I also wanted to add.. the.Dark is right...the part of the world you live in makes a big difference in acceptance...My opinions are true...at least in the middle west area I live in and that should be pointed out.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/18/2008 11:05:15 AM >

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RE: Lap dancing, strippers, escorts and Pro D types / ... - 11/18/2008 11:00:41 AM

Lashra

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quote:

Perhaps it is the feminists that are making the noise

It maybe SOME of the feminists but not all of us. I am a feminist and I truly
believe that as long as a woman is happy with her career choice, let her
do it.

~Lashra

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