RE: A semi philosophical question. (Full Version)

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oceanwynds -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 8:51:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

good thing no one is dueling....yawn.


Well, I made popcorn to watch, and will share with others.


oceanwynds




persephonee -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 8:54:20 AM)

mmm...butter please....im laying money on my man KoM...and that is not a shameless plug to be his paint and canvas....or mebbe it is....[:D]




DoctorJeep -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 9:11:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

mmm...butter please....im laying money on my man KoM...and that is not a shameless plug to be his paint and canvas....or mebbe it is....[:D]


Imp.... seeking to fan flames.... Have you NO SHAME!!!  (said with a grin)




LaTigresse -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 9:22:47 AM)

Personally, I am reminded of something a very smart person said...........

"Never bring a butter knife to a duel."

Of course I've been around here to watch a few duels also.




justgemmie -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 9:57:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep
Ahhhh, but your master would not know the extra ways to truly make you feel like a toy if he did not know you well enough to completely top you from the inside out.  To truly make a woman into your toy, you must know her hopes and her fears.  You can not do that with a stranger.


Maybe you can't, but that doesn't mean that others can't.  When he chooses to play with someone else and just wants to use them as a toy, it is for his pleasure.  He uses them in the way he wants, who they are is irrelevant to that.  What matters is that they consent to being used for his pleasure.  Not many are willing to do that after they see him play.

If he wants to play with someone and feel  the deep connection, then he will choose to play with Alandra or I.  However, he doesn't need a connection/bond with someone else in order to use them as a toy.  To compare the two is like comparing apples to oranges. 

Knight's Kyra


greetings OP

thank you kyra, you said this so well.  i feel the same but from the other side.  i love belonging to Dauntless and how He uses me, whether lovingly or as a toy, is wonderful and fantastic.

however, there are times i love to be someOne else's play toy ~~ "hurt me, use me while i get lost in what is happening and You do what You want* ~~ it's also just the best!  depends on my mood and the Top that's gonna let me be His disposible toy to "chew up and spit out."  in that situation, i don't want any emotional connection anyway; i belong to Dauntless and He gives me all that.  i just want to be *a* bottom for awhile.

and personally, i don't think a good Top has to know "all my hopes and fears."  there's LOTS of ways to get me to be the screaming, writhing, pain-filled, happy slut toy a good Top wants me to be. 

gemmie

P.S.  i just got to Knight's post.  He said it perfectly - A talented Top can take an instrument and pull out of it the music he wants.




oceanwynds -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 10:15:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Personally, I am reminded of something a very smart person said...........

"Never bring a butter knife to a duel."

Of course I've been around here to watch a few duels also.



Oh, okay I will not bring a butter knife. How about a dagger? I am partial to swords and daggers and my athame.




tied2bteased -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 10:28:47 AM)

Right let's not get too fluffy, shall we?
I believe the connection needs to be made in advance of the submission. Then it is understood we are in this place, we have roles, you are valued, but the Dominant doesn't have to live in that emotional connection unless he chooses to. The purpose of submission is to give the Dominant the choice to do and be the way he chooses.

quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

there must be a mental connection when vertical before play begins


As with everything else, it takes all sorts.





kyraofMists -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 10:39:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep
I am actually not on any mission to convert anyone to my point of view. 


Really?  Then why have you made universal statements in this tread like:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep
The bond that is needed to truly "get there" requires a level of deeper understanding.


or like this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep
Well said again, I am not arguing the use of the "You are my toy" session.  I am arguing however, that even those sessions require the other in order to reach thier full potential.  You can not top a stranger the way you can top a devoted sub.


or like this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep
To truly make a woman into your toy, you must know her hopes and her fears.  You can not do that with a stranger.


In each of these comments you have spoken universally and have been insulting to those who prefer being a toy and playing casually.  That their experience in that is less than an experience in a relationship.  That they have not reached their full potential.  That is utter bullshit.  You cannot speak for others on what is their full potential or what is best for them.

For you this may be the best way to play.  However, speaking for everyone is going to get you negative responses.  Speak for yourself and stop trying to speak for others that you do not even know.

For me, with what I know of myself, I believe I would find casual play unfulfilling.  The emotional and mental connection is what I prefer.  However, I would not be so arrogant as to tell other people who prefer something else that their play is less than mine or that their play does not reach its full potential or that they can't do something just because I am unable to.

Knight's Kyra




kyraofMists -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 10:42:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee
im laying money on my man KoM...and that is not a shameless plug to be his paint and canvas....or mebbe it is....[:D]


Hmm... well this morning when we woke up it was -12 degrees C and we have several inches of snow on the ground...  but feel free to stop on by  *eg* 

I am sure I can find some 'brushes' to use so we can create 'paint'.  Oh and do you like BBQ...  brushes that is?

Knight's Kyra




oceanwynds -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 10:45:57 AM)

Sir is who i seek to please. There is an emotional connection between us but yes i enjoy being his toy to play with. Sometimes, i prefer just being a toy and let the emotional aspects fade away for a time.

oceanwynds




BitaTruble -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 10:52:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep

I had written on another thread about the need to see your sub as not just a toy.  Fellow Doms, don't get me wrong, she is there to serve and to please, but, to truly get the most out of her I believe that there must be a mental connection when vertical before play begins.  As such, she trusts you more and you explore her more fully.  I find that I simply get bored with subs who have nothing to themselves.  So my question to the Doms and the subs out there is:

To the Doms:

Which play is better and more satisfying to you?  Do you prefer to have the totally disposable little toy?  Or, do you find that breaking in one that you actually care for as a person is more of a challenge and produces more of a gain?  I suppose that the way that I phrased that indicates my preference...

To the Subs:  Would you rather be chewed up and spit out or, would you rather have a Dom who sees you and into you where you have developed a more serious bond?

To both:

Obviously both have thier place depending on the scene and the appetite, but which really makes it for you?



I think your premise is poorly worded. It makes the assumption that a toy has no depth or that once 'used' the remains are spit out and tossed to the dogs like a bone. (Which is pretty hot sometimes!) When I play Scrabble, I can fill up the board with three letter words and not garner much in the way of a score, however, I can also fill up the board with 7 letter words full of X's, Y's and Z's and get an unbeatable (pardon the pun) score so a lot of it depends on the caliber of the toy maker, so to speak.  Some of the most amazing SM scenes I've ever had have been with people whom I've just met. There is a vast difference between a 'scene' and a 'relationship'. In a relationship, there was a time when being a toy worked really well for me. It filled me and the relationship that went along with the scenes we did was all about service without any emotional or intimate sexual attachment. For some of us, being used is what we crave and want .. being 'known' doesn't matter so much. Personally, that only works well for me in small increments, but one of those small increments lasted about 3 years, so it's very subjective.

I think what it boils down to, for me and many others I know, is being able to maximize the potential energy available at any given time with any given person. Generally, that's going to take two (or more) people to accomplish. Even when I'm the one tied up, bound to the table, gagged and blindfolded, I'm still responsible for doing 'my part' in a scene to help maximize that energy. Many relationships, especially long standing relationships, appear to be mostly vanilla so what happens during the times when direct play isn't involved is probably not going to matter so much whether you are using a toy or having a scene with a beloved pet or doing it up with your "One" and only. It takes all kinds so I automatically make the assumption that it works in all kinds of ways. Toy or beloved, stranger or soul mate, it's all about what works for those involved.




alandraofMists -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 11:00:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: justgemmie


however, there are times i love to be someOne else's play toy ~~ "hurt me, use me while i get lost in what is happening and You do what You want* ~~ it's also just the best!  depends on my mood and the Top that's gonna let me be His disposible toy to "chew up and spit out."  in that situation, i don't want any emotional connection anyway; i belong to Dauntless and He gives me all that.  i just want to be *a* bottom for awhile.


I understand very much what you are saying here... I have the emotional connection with my Lord and Kyra....but there is some times that I really need to feel like a "Play Toy"

The one thing I have found with being someones "play toy "with no emotional connection is a totally different play then that with an emotional connection.

Being a "toy" I react in a different way... more manipulating the Top through my reactions, both visually and with sounds... I find when I am given to someone to use as a toy... I feel in control of the play, and not because I tell them what to do or set limits.... because I control the top with how I act and react.  This has happened any time I have played with anyone other then my Lord. 

I have been given to Tops I know and those that I have not know... and I come away from the play in both cases with the same feeling... of being in control and feeling that everyone in the session was fuffilled by the session.

Do I feel more fufilled during one play over the other?.... No... it depends on the mood with in me. For someone to say one way is more or better is just them putting themselves on a pedestal.

Knight's Alandra




IrishMist -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 11:33:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Hmm, methinks that it's time that the good doctor ( /snort ) went back to school [8|]


You imp..... Trying to fan flames....   tsk...tsk...


Actually no. I was trying to stop you from  making an utter fool of youself; but hey...since you are so eager to do so, I will stop and let you continue on as you are. Far be it from me to hold the hand of ignorance.




SlaveIndigochild -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 11:46:41 AM)

This  is not a metaphore nor is it even remorely semi philosophical...
i like to be occassionally shaken, definitely stirred, absolutely spit on and totally swallowed.
 




SlaveIndigochild -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 11:51:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

To the Subs:  Would you rather be chewed up and spit out or, would you rather have a Dom who sees you and into you where you have developed a more serious bond?

Chewed up and spit out any day of the week. Emotional or mental ties are of no use to me when all I crave is a good hard beat the shit out me 24/7. Of course, I do  not participate in 'sessions' so maybe my way is of no use to others at all [8D]

But never on a Sunday surely to goodness......[:D]




IrishMist -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 12:02:00 PM)

quote:

But never on a Sunday surely to goodness......[:D]

OO

Sundays are the BEST [8D][:D]




SlaveIndigochild -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 12:04:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

But never on a Sunday surely to goodness......[:D]

OO

Sundays are the BEST [8D][:D]

I have to agree that guilt adds to the piquancy of the experience..........




leadership527 -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 12:14:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep
To the Doms:
Which play is better and more satisfying to you?  Do you prefer to have the totally disposable little toy?  Or, do you find that breaking in one that you actually care for as a person is more of a challenge and produces more of a gain?  I suppose that the way that I phrased that indicates my preference...

I stopped playing with toys when I became an adult.  I prefer to have a real human slave, not a toy.

quote:

To both:
Obviously both have thier place depending on the scene and the appetite, but which really makes it for you?

Only if you "scene".  There is no place at all for a disposable toy in my life.  My time is too valuable to waste on that.   And why on earth would I engage in a "scene" when my real life is so incredible?  To what purpose would I put "fantasy"?  Inosfar as my appetites... she is mine and serves all my appetities quite nicely.  She is a squirming bundle of willing female flesh in my arrms whenever I want, no question about it.. but the idea that I would consider the most astonishingly wonderful thing in my life either "disposable" or "a toy" is simply laughable.  Tell you what though, the moment I come to the conclusion that I could easily replace her, I'll agree that she's disposable *laughs*.




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 12:42:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Only if you "scene".  There is no place at all for a disposable toy in my life.  My time is too valuable to waste on that.   And why on earth would I engage in a "scene" when my real life is so incredible?  To what purpose would I put "fantasy"? 


While leadership is clear about saying that this is his preference, I'd like to say that there is, again, that tone of "What -I- am doing is 'REAL', and what -you- are doing is 'FAKE'".

I might suggest that this could be worded as "Because we don't do scenes outside of our day-to-day D/s, there is no place in my life for a disposable toy. Our life is exceptional for us and in order to work well, requires a connection between us that exists as part of our real existence on a day-to-day basis."

That would have said the same thing, without implying that those who -do- scene, and who do enjoy the experience of short-term expressions including topping and bottoming are somehow less 'real', less 'substantial', and less 'worthy' than those situations that are more long-term oriented.

I have a -very- full, very pleasant, and very satisfying life that -does- include both day-to-day and short-term experiences. I don't roleplay, but even if I did, though the setting would be a fantasy, it wouldn't make the experience any less real than the type of scening that I do. In the same way, just because I enjoy long-term discipline situations does -not- invalidate the short-term artistry and the experience between myself and any short-term co-participants.

With a little thought, it is possible to express one's preferences and emphasize how important those preferences are to oneself without belittling someone else's preferences.




DoctorJeep -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/19/2008 1:02:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Only if you "scene".  There is no place at all for a disposable toy in my life.  My time is too valuable to waste on that.   And why on earth would I engage in a "scene" when my real life is so incredible?  To what purpose would I put "fantasy"? 


While leadership is clear about saying that this is his preference, I'd like to say that there is, again, that tone of "What -I- am doing is 'REAL', and what -you- are doing is 'FAKE'".

I might suggest that this could be worded as "Because we don't do scenes outside of our day-to-day D/s, there is no place in my life for a disposable toy. Our life is exceptional for us and in order to work well, requires a connection between us that exists as part of our real existence on a day-to-day basis."

That would have said the same thing, without implying that those who -do- scene, and who do enjoy the experience of short-term expressions including topping and bottoming are somehow less 'real', less 'substantial', and less 'worthy' than those situations that are more long-term oriented.

I have a -very- full, very pleasant, and very satisfying life that -does- include both day-to-day and short-term experiences. I don't roleplay, but even if I did, though the setting would be a fantasy, it wouldn't make the experience any less real than the type of scening that I do. In the same way, just because I enjoy long-term discipline situations does -not- invalidate the short-term artistry and the experience between myself and any short-term co-participants.

With a little thought, it is possible to express one's preferences and emphasize how important those preferences are to oneself without belittling someone else's preferences.



Let me then say that you are bringing much more into my words than I intended.  I am in no way saying that you are "fake" or that anyone who disagrees with me is "fake."  I have also said to each his/her own here. 

After re-reading some of my statements I can see how you might have seen them as preachy.  That was not the intent.




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