RE: A semi philosophical question. (Full Version)

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DoctorJeep -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/21/2008 11:36:07 AM)

quote:

s to what I find fatuous, well... To each his own. Seriously, all the strutting and name calling is not age appropriate and sometimes people need to be called on just simply being rude. If you have found me rude, to you, it was unintentional.
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackPhx

Remember that I said "safe in their hands". The person with the whip is in JUST as much danger as the person being whipped..more, as if something goes wrong, and things do from time to time no matter how good you are, if that person is NOT stable, or develops regret etc...even if everything was done in a dungeon/club in front of witnesses..the person with the whip can be charged with assault, rape, battery or any number of things. Even if it is dismissed and your new address does not include rooming with Bubba or Bette, it can be very costly to defend yourself and can cost job, family, friends and other things like reputation as well.

One of the largest dangers of casual play IMHO is that the person on the cross may have a problem you DON"T know about, and they may not think to tell you. Flashbacks and Fugues do happen and if you are not familiar with the person how the hell will you know they are not just sub spacing but are instead lost in an internal hell.

Not to say casual play isn't good from time to time, but it isn't all that casual to be honest.  You aren't looking for a relationship, but you also don't just grab a whip and flail away at anybody hanging around a cross unless they are standing there with a sign saying 10 strokes for $1.00. There is some conversation, negotiation and an agreement that both walk away afterward with no strings attached. sort of a temporary verbal contract to play and hold the other free of blame.

poenkitten



This is simply deeply sensible.  I think only a fool would not take this to heart.




aerynstark -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/21/2008 12:14:17 PM)

I've done lots of casual sm over the years but if I'm going to have a domme I need that connection. I don't wanna be tossed around just cause I'm submissive. I need someone to actually care about me and their commands and playing comes from that place. I am a very hard bottom, and i physically and emotionally enjoy getting flogged paddled etctera. Since I actually take joy from things that cause others pain...I'm not getting my thrills from hurting. So when there's no connection at all I have a lot of difficulty....many times my first scene with someone will be lighter than future scenes but it also depends on how long I have known them. I want the domme to care about me.....if she or he does not and I'm just a toy....that doesn't work for me. And if I feel like that in a first scene I will probably not be comfortable playing with them again.




MadRabbit -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/22/2008 11:28:49 AM)

Better late than never, I suppose...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep
Your philosophy is certainly in direct counterpoint to my own.
 

That wasn't what I read in KoM's post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep
I find it interesting that you feel that you do not get what you want by taking the time to know your sub well.
  

I would say that taking the time to understand your partner can provide information that can help achieve certain things that one wants assuming that there is an obstruction between the dominant and what he wants.

I can do hours of reasearch about McDonalds, but when I go up to the counter and say "Give me a Big Mac", I still get the same Big Mac. In that case, all I needed was 5 minutes of reasearch on how to properly order a Big Mac to get what I want.

quote:


A violinist wants to play a certain piece.  To do so, he must know and respect his instrument.  A strange instrument does not respond to his touch the way *his* instrument does.


Comparing an instrument that requires extensive knowledge and practice to be able to use to an autonomous human being who is perfectly capable of responding and fulfilling a simple command with no knowledge or skill required on the part of the commander is a bit of a false analogy, in my opinion. 




MadRabbit -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/22/2008 11:32:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep

Which play is better and more satisfying to you?  Do you prefer to have the totally disposable little toy?  Or, do you find that breaking in one that you actually care for as a person is more of a challenge and produces more of a gain?  I suppose that the way that I phrased that indicates my preference...


Neither. It's a loaded question.




kristileigh -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/22/2008 11:37:10 AM)

i really don't believe i could of trusted Master if there was not a deeper bond.




MadRabbit -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/22/2008 11:38:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep
You have shown nothing but the most sincere contempt in what you have written repeatedly. 


I don't blame him really. It's one thing to express personal preference and to list reasons as to why you disagree with a particular practice or style, but to make such universal statements that don't take in the account experience beyond your own as to "How Things SHOULD Be" is nothing short of contemptable.





MadRabbit -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/22/2008 11:41:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

the Crazy Bunny and the Crappy Dom haven't even bother to post to this thread... good thing too...... it wouldn't of been a dual..  it would of been a firing squad.


OK now THAT'S funny! Where the heck is that crazy bunny anyway???


Holiday season at the butcher deptartment and moving into a new place.




Aszhrae -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/22/2008 4:54:00 PM)

quote:

I had written on another thread about the need to see your sub as not just a toy. Fellow Doms, don't get me wrong, she is there to serve and to please, but, to truly get the most out of her I believe that there must be a mental connection when vertical before play begins. As such, she trusts you more and you explore her more fully. I find that I simply get bored with subs who have nothing to themselves. So my question to the Doms and the subs out there is:

To the Doms:

Which play is better and more satisfying to you? Do you prefer to have the totally disposable little toy? Or, do you find that breaking in one that you actually care for as a person is more of a challenge and produces more of a gain? I suppose that the way that I phrased that indicates my preference...

To the Subs: Would you rather be chewed up and spit out or, would you rather have a Dom who sees you and into you where you have developed a more serious bond?

To both:

Obviously both have thier place depending on the scene and the appetite, but which really makes it for you?
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep

I had written on another thread about the need to see your sub as not just a toy.  Fellow Doms, don't get me wrong, she is there to serve and to please, but, to truly get the most out of her I believe that there must be a mental connection when vertical before play begins.  As such, she trusts you more and you explore her more fully.  I find that I simply get bored with subs who have nothing to themselves.  So my question to the Doms and the subs out there is:

To the Doms:

Which play is better and more satisfying to you?  Do you prefer to have the totally disposable little toy?  Or, do you find that breaking in one that you actually care for as a person is more of a challenge and produces more of a gain?  I suppose that the way that I phrased that indicates my preference...

To the Subs:  Would you rather be chewed up and spit out or, would you rather have a Dom who sees you and into you where you have developed a more serious bond?

To both:

Obviously both have thier place depending on the scene and the appetite, but which really makes it for you?



Reading through the thread and of the various opinions given in reply.
The first choice for being a sub is not an option. The second choice for girl is, but to have such a bond, girl needs to have certain things occur first: agreed that its LTR, that girl has offered TPE and that girl has considered RACK, the final thing and most important is that the dominant can be allowed into girl's head. There is no place for being a toy, to be used and discarded. Girl has too much respect in the dominant to be treated in such away. After all, if the dominant would simply discard girl after they have been 'filled up' that really doesn't say much about the dominant and even less of girl.




Aszhrae -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/22/2008 4:55:10 PM)

oops :( not sure how that last post occurred??




Padriag -> RE: A semi philosophical question. (11/22/2008 5:56:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorJeep

A violinist wants to play a certain piece.  To do so, he must know and respect his instrument.  A strange instrument does not respond to his touch the way *his* instrument does.

Poor choice of metaphor... having dated a violinist for quite some time what she would have pointed out is that no two instruments are exactly the same... and some are simply better than others.  You just aren't going to get the same tonal quality out of a $400 instrument you will out of a Stradivarius.  But, a good violinist can coax a great deal out of almost any instrument they pick up.

Oddly enough, if you apply that corrected metaphor to the topic it works out something like this.  No two submissives will respond exactly the same.  Some are more responsive than others... dare I say... better.  But... a good Dominant can "play" almost any submissive.

Which is better... that depends as much on the submissive and the dominant as it does on the relationship.  You suggest that having a deep knowledge and relationship with a submissive guarantees you get more... but you are wrong.

A very responsive submissive whom you hardly more will still respond more and "out perform" an unresponsive submissive you know very well.  If the submissive just isn't capable of offering as much, then no matter how well you know them, or how much skill the dominant possesses, you just won't get anything further out of them.  Put another way, try as you might, an apple is still an apple... and you aren't going to get orange juice from it.

However, I personally find all this a bit silly.  Ultimately it is all subjective because of that endlessly complex variable known as human preference.  Some will prefer only playing with those whom they have relationships because regardless of whether they get "the most" out of it, its their preference... some will prefer "toys"... some both or neither who whatever other possibilities exist (and they are about as endless as people themselves).  It is amusing how some are always so concerned with what others do, when really, it just doesn't matter.  Much more beneficial to worry about what works for ourselves and focus on that.




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