RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked?

RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (Full Version)

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KnightofMists -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 8:26:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag By introducing the ideas and conditions of a of long term relationship, you've inadvertantly triggered a mental process in the submissive where he is already trying to decide now if he can commit to a long term relationship (and your conditions for it) or not. Without the trust, comfort and relationship that normally would go with that, its no longer a mystery as to why he feels uncomfortable and is balking. Take a step back and relax things and he may become more responsive. Get his focus back on short term goals. I would even suggest that persistence towards these things that are are triggering this discomfort and balking will cause the person to wonder it there feelings are going to be treated the same way if they are part of the family. In alot of cases... some very quaility individuals will be lost because the person will find their approach to be inconsiderated to the feelings and needs of the submissive.

shyslavef -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 8:28:37 AM)
i rarely ever post but came across this thread. i'll admit, i haven't read each and every post but have read enough to get the idea. i don't think talking about future long term arrangements is a bad thing. It saves a lot of time and possibly heartache in the end if you don't lay all of the cards on the table in the beginning. One of my no no's was i would never move my daughter out of the school district she was in. i didn't want to take her away from everything and everyone she ever knew. That all changed when i met my now Master, her and i eventually did make the move but i did it with her making the decision also. Something i thought would be a deal breaker ended up working out for us. He couldn't move because of his job and the only thing keeping me where i was was my daughter. It was the best decision we ever made, she's happier now than she ever was and so am i. We didn't move far, but we still moved.

KnightofMists -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 8:33:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists Given the current economic climate... selling the house might not such a good idea at present... to even intially sell the house even though they compromised afterwards doesn't reflect well on their decision making... not to mention that the job goes out the window and he becomes completely financially vulnerable in tough economic times. He was most emphatically told NOT to even think of selling his house (Jewel's exact words were, do not even get rid of one book) until he was sure and we were sure this was the right relationship, until after he had lived in for at least a year. Even at that he was told selling the house would be HIS choice, that he could use it as a rental to make money as long as he wanted to. He was also told to transfer his job, not to quit it until then either. The sticking point is that if he and we decided after an appropriate period of time, that this was the right relationship he would eventually have to give up his job. your using a sludge hammer when a much smaller hammer will do.... for example. You state " It is our desire and dream to have a fourth relocated to live with the three of us" He states " well what about my job and house and everything else" You state " Those decision will have to be made if relocation is going to happen.... but don't you think we should get to know each other first and see if relocation is even an option... maybe we are just going to be friends and we are ok with that too" put the expectation out there but keep the options open and reasonable for the state your at!

Mercnbeth -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 8:35:27 AM)
quote: By introducing the ideas and conditions of a of long term relationship, you've inadvertently triggered a mental process in the submissive where he is already trying to decide now if he can commit to a long term relationship (and your conditions for it) or not. Without the trust, comfort and relationship that normally would go with that, its no longer a mystery as to why he feels uncomfortable and is balking. Padriag, Hope you don't mind me expanding on this important consideration. Also being "processed" are assumptions. I don't care how great and specific a writer or talker you are; nobody is capable of clearly expressing in words the reality of a 24/7 relationship. What you 'think' is going to happen sometimes gets in the way of a decision which would allow you to experience. I'd agree you have to discuss generalities, but when it comes to specifics its better to experience them to establish a common definition for the words being used.

KnightofMists -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 8:37:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Also being "processed" are assumptions. I don't care how great and specific a writer or talker you are; nobody is capable of clearly expressing in words the reality of a 24/7 relationship. What you 'think' is going to happen sometimes gets in the way of a decision which would allow you to experience. I'd agree you have to discuss generalities, but when it comes to specifics its better to experience them to establish a common definition for the words being used. Excellent point!!!!

Padriag -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 8:38:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x He was also told to transfer his job, not to quit it until then either. The sticking point is that if he and we decided after an appropriate period of time, that this was the right relationship he would eventually have to give up his job. The sticking point exists because you've got him thinking about these things well before he should be. To reiterate what I said earlier... quote: By introducing the ideas and conditions of a of long term relationship, you've inadvertantly triggered a mental process in the submissive where he is already trying to decide now if he can commit to a long term relationship (and your conditions for it) or not. Without the trust, comfort and relationship that normally would go with that, its no longer a mystery as to why he feels uncomfortable and is balking. There is a process that occurs when people begin forming relationships. Various events need to happen in the correct order or the probability of a relationship successfully forming become greatly reduced. The very first thing that must happen is attraction, which apparently happened. After that comfort has to be built, followed by trust and then commitment. You've inadvertantly skipped comfort and trust building and skipped right to commitment by introducing all these commitment choices too early in the process. The result is anxiety which is stalemating the process.

Twicehappy2x -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 8:39:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x We are always upfront about what we want/need in the long run. While i do understand this might be upsetting to some, for us we decided it would not do to get to the point of wanting to meet unless all the cards were on the table. But your not just putting your cards on the table... you trying to negotiate to come up with a compromise with a stranger... If you a submissive person tried that with me.. I would think they are nuts!! and say good bye fast! quote: Doing this just makes sense to us as it saves misunderstanding later on. Having spoken to more potentials than we can count and having had at least 12 make it to the front door, we've become very aware of a lot of those "ooppps" in the process. It doesn't matter how many get to the door... all that matters is the one that enters! Actually the negotiation part happens every time we speak to him, at HIS repeated insistence, because this one item became the sticking point as to why he would not visit. And for you not caring how you got them through the door may not matter, to us it does. We do not want to hear a year down the road, "you never told me this". Otherwise we could have five or ten a week walk in the door. The first few would show up because, hey, there are two women in the house i can sub to or one of each, woohoo a chance to switch. The next few would be married but looking for a play partner. The one after that might be a sissy maid, or perhaps looking for a place to crash or maybe they do drugs or better yet the are thinking, a Dom and a Domme, i get one of each, that's not going to happen, Scooter is straight, period. We are up front about everything, whom will be having contact both scene and sex wise with whom, our living arrangements, about pets, about smoking, about drugs, about our health conditions, about what we want. We lay out on the table what they will be expected to do and what is negotiable. For us this is the way we have chosen to do things. It may not work for some but for us it works best.

Padriag -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 8:42:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists your using a sludge hammer when a much smaller hammer will do.... for example. You state " It is our desire and dream to have a fourth relocated to live with the three of us" He states " well what about my job and house and everything else" You state " Those decision will have to be made if relocation is going to happen.... but don't you think we should get to know each other first and see if relocation is even an option... maybe we are just going to be friends and we are ok with that too" put the expectation out there but keep the options open and reasonable for the state your at! That's an excellent example. It answers the question without dismissing it... but also delays any decisions until later after comfort and trust have been built up when these kinds of questions can more appropriately be addressed.

KnightofMists -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 8:48:08 AM)
you clearly don't understand the comment when I said...maybe you should actually read the statement! quote: It doesn't matter how many get to the door... all that matters is the one that enters! I don't care how many get to the door... and statement doesn't mean that I don't care how the One gets through the door... in fact... JUST the opposite... It means the ONLY thing that matters is the one that is coming through that door and all that it takes to find and get them there. I don't care about your 12 at the door or the hundreds you rejected for this or that. Bottom line... there is nothing wrong with having expectations and desires and wants and standards..... but there is a way to communicate it effectively and there is a way not to. .

Twicehappy2x -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 9:04:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists You state " Those decision will have to be made if relocation is going to happen.... but don't you think we should get to know each other first and see if relocation is even an option... maybe we are just going to be friends and we are ok with that too" Tried that one repeatedly, we have asked him, "come down for dinner, what is the worst that can happen, you make friends". And he goes right back to"what about my job, my house". Told him we hate the idea of anybody spending Thanksgiving alone, we are having a few folks who might also otherwise be alone, so join us for dinner that day so you will not be alone. And we hear "ok, but what about my house, my job". It is like the is a hole in the ground. Walk around it for now we say, we will come back and fill it up later. So he repeats, there is a hole in the ground. Ok, fill it up now if it will make you feel better we say. Then he repeats, there is a hole in the ground. Ok, we will fill up the hole for now we offer. Then he repeats, there is a hole in the ground. Put a board over it for now, we say, he repeats, there is a hole in the ground. He appears to be stuck only on the fact that there is a hole in the ground. Substitute"what about my job, my house" for the hole in the ground and you have a good idea what we've been trying to deal with. I think some where along the way everybody has decided or come up with the idea we told this guy"chose now!". Which is just not the case. When he went to, own his own, calling everyday and wanting more, wanting to know, how will i live, what about my house, how much will i be expected to contribute to the household, then we laid out the "this is what we will expect in the long term". And right or wrong for anybody else, anytime talks get to this point, we will always be very upfront. Why waste his time or ours if there are insurmountable differences or issues. I think Padraig had it right, there is a reason he has gotten stuck. And unless he will discuss things will not go any further. We cannot address his feelings on the subject if all he does is continue, no matter what we try, to reiterate these two questions, ignoring every thing else including our oft repeated attempts to compromise on them. If he will not offer us the time/effort/opportunity to meet and get to know each other in order to see if these decisions even need to be made, there is not much we can do.

Padriag -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 9:11:00 AM)
I don't think you told him to chose now, it seems fairly clear you haven't. But it also seems fairly clear that he is struggling with choices about long term commitment when he shouldn't be. It is possible that your putting all the cards on the table triggered that. Its also possible there are issues from his own past that triggered it, or more likely a combination of the two. Regardless, if you can't get him to relax and change focus, then I don't see this progressing and that means walking away. In fact, walking away might be your only way to get him to rethink things at this point.

kyraofMists -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 9:11:20 AM)
~ fast reply From reading your posts, it seems that compatibility is a huge criteria in excluding potential partners. That you don't even really start getting to know them in a face to face environment until they show they will be compatible in the long term. If my Lord had used this approach, then we would never have met and would not have the wonderful relationship that we have now. There were some major incompatibility issues between us. For example: I was looking for a monogamous relationship. He is poly. I did not want kids in my life. He has four He disliked cats. I had three and they are a part of me. Where I go, they follow. I didn't think I was a masochist. He is a sadist. I did not want to be a slave. Only a slave would live in his house. I lived in the almost the southern most part of the US. He lived in Northern Alberta, Canada. For most people, all of these would be deal breakers and yet the three of us fit so perfectly together. The character of the who we are was more important to us. Your approach may be working to keep out the ones you don't want in your life. But it does not appear to be getting the one you do want into your life. Maybe it is time to consider altering your approach so that it gets you what you want. Knight's Kyra

Twicehappy2x -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 9:12:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists Bottom line... there is nothing wrong with having expectations and desires and wants and standards..... but there is a way to communicate it effectively and there is a way not to. My apologies if i misunderstood your comment. But communication is an individual skill. We have approached his "stuck" point from every angle we could think of. Communication goes both ways, if he refuses to tell us what is the actual issue, or "hear" everything that has been said on the subject, like i said earlier, our hands are just tied.

KatyLied -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 9:18:22 AM)
quote: But it also seems fairly clear that he is struggling with choices about long term commitment when he shouldn't be. Really? I would be struggling with the thought of long term commitment toward a group of people I've not met in real life. I would not even consider it.

Twicehappy2x -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 9:23:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross It's also hard because you guys really do seem to just fit together perfectly and naturally. That would be intimidating to any third, let alone a fourth! You are soooo right on this one. We have had this issue, a new person comes in and sees the three of us function as a unit and it is hard for them to imagine where or how they would fit. And our wanting a fourth does make it harder, they have to fit, not one or two but three people. We realize this and try to ease into it a bit at a time. What we try to do when a new person comes is allow a great deal of time with Jewel for them alone. I try to reassure them that no, not only are they not stepping on my toes as far as taking care of her, but that they will be freeing up my time to take care of other things i need to do. Then we make sure they get some one on one time with each of us as well as with the group as whole. It is hard for anybody wanting to join an established couple, much less to join a few (our term for ourselves, instead of a couple we are a few). To be on the outside of the circle looking in and trying imagine their place in the group. But the truth is that while we function extremely well that Jewel wants/needs a sub of her very own. It would be good for Scooter to have a guy around to do guy stuff with, and i also would enjoy having another her to do/giggle over/gripe about the subbie stuff.

Padriag -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 9:24:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied I would not even consider it. That's exactly the point. Most people wouldn't at this stage, its too early in the relationship (which barely exists at this point).

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 9:24:37 AM)
Ok, I haven't read the whole thread... I have read the past couple of pages, though, which caught on to something that is near and dear to my heart... dealing with the folks who flip out when it looks like they might have to change their lives. Like you, my Darling and I are pretty explicit about our current and possible future expectations. We tell folks up front that the 'vetting' period for us is at least a year of individual domiciles before we'll even talk about live-in... and then only for those folks who we see as being potentially a good fit for our family overall... We still have folks who hedge or who disappear because we're too intense for them. So be it. If our intensity is an issue from the get-go, that person is -never- going to survive a year of serving us to even get as far as discussing live-in options. If this guy is so worried about his house and job, he's not the guy for you--if he doesn't think it's possible to just develop a friendship and see how it goes, it's his loss. I disagree with Padriag and KoM on this one. My Darling and I explain things to people in the way that feels right to us. If we lose someone because of the way we've explained things, I just write that off to "better to find out now that we'd have to walk on eggshells with everything we say." My suggestion would be to let this guy go and keep looking. He can keep his house and job...and his fear of commitment... and your family can find someone who isn't going to have a panic attack at the idea of maybe having to change his life a bit to get something so extraordinary.

KatyLied -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 9:25:23 AM)
quote: That's exactly the point. Most people wouldn't at this stage, its too early in the relationship (which barely exists at this point). Sorry, I clearly misunderstood your post. [:)]

Padriag -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 9:29:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied quote: That's exactly the point. Most people wouldn't at this stage, its too early in the relationship (which barely exists at this point). Sorry, I clearly misunderstood your post. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/image/s1.gif[/image] No harm, no fowl... pity... I was in the mood for some chicken. [;)]

Twicehappy2x -> RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider if asked? (11/23/2008 9:36:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied quote: But it also seems fairly clear that he is struggling with choices about long term commitment when he shouldn't be. Really? I would be struggling with the thought of long term commitment toward a group of people I've not met in real life. I would not even consider it. The struggle is pretty much of his own making at this point, since he is the one who refuses to try and meet even as friends. I sometimes get the feeling from this sub that unconsciously he believes his money is all he has to offer us. Which is the one thing we just do not need from him. And that Jewel telling him she does not want/need/would not take his money threw him for a loop. And i will point out that while many folks on her do take their time, and really should if that feels right to them, thast there are many who jumped right away and are happy many years after with their choices, me included. Now i am not saying this is what this guy was asked to do, far from it, nor was the possibility of his doing so ever discussed. I spoke with my first on the phone once (this was way before the internet when bdsm folks met through the dirty little news mags) after i saw his bike on the street and admired it in front of a mutual friend. We went out once, at the end of that date i got his Property of tattooed on me. Eighteen and a half years later he died on me. And that is the only thing he ever did that truly pissed me off. I met Scooter here on CM, talked to him and Jewel for about a week, flew 2000+ miles to meet them. I've been here for three years, am happily awaiting Scooter's retirement and they both know either of them dying is a hard limit for me.

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