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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 9:37:33 AM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
My Darling and I explain things to people in the way that feels right to us.


There is nothing wrong with explaining things in the way that feels right to you.  However, there are consequences to that choice.  You may lose a good fit to your family because you do not want to communicate in other ways. 

That is your choice, just like it is Scooter's and Jewel's choice to make.  It seems that this person being stuck on the long term commitment choices is a consequence of the way they have chose to present their family.  If they want a different consequence with this person then they are going to have to choose a different way to communicate.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 9:39:11 AM   
Carmeldelight


Posts: 139
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Status: offline 		I could not give up my job. My Sir knows that I fought too hard and long for my position in the transportation industry.  We have good communication between the two of us, so I would not worry about him yelling at me because; Sir knows that I will just shut down.   I know that Sir would make me stop spending $500.00 per month on clothing. That I know I would have to give. Right now it is a secret which I hide from Sir. Hell I love looking good for Sir. That is what I would have to give up rather than that I cook for Sir now. The two of us would have to trade our Queen size bed for a King size one. Sir would have to give up his apartment because I refuse to give up my co-op. I have a two bedroom co-op so his children would have their own room when they came over.


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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 9:41:10 AM   
Twicehappy2x


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
My Darling and I explain things to people in the way that feels right to us. If we lose someone because of the way we've explained things, I just write that off to "better to find out now that we'd have to walk on eggshells with everything we say."


AMEN!
And thank you and MaamJay both.
 
Pretty much he has been told either take the step of coming to dinner and try to communicate or forget it. It is a shame though.
 
But this thread has provided many an interesting thought an offered much to think about, always a good thing.

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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 9:46:28 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Status: offline 		I'm going to both agree and disagree with you. Yes, it's true that with any decision to communicate, what you say and how you say it is going to impact future actions. Where I'll disagree is that, by being honest and up front, they are losing someone who would "be a good fit" for their household. If the person can't deal with the way they communicate NOW, how could they possibly be a 'good fit'? The folks who are a good fit for us are the ones who aren't going to wig out about how we discuss both today and the future... so in my mind, Jewel, Scooter, and Twice aren't losing out on anyone who would be a good fit for them... it's just that final 'trimming dead weight' stage.

In my experience, people who had issues with our communication style during the vetting process have gone on to have issues with our communication style throughout their term of service when we've 'softened things up' so that people weren't so "uncomfortable" with us during negotiations -- so why should I fake it and buffer my communication to make them feel all comfy-cozy, let them into our lives, and then have them tell us that we're NOTHING like we seemed when we were in negotiations? Or should we just have to keep on buffering things and playing it safe and cozy in our communications and completely stifle ourselves so that they stay comfy... even if it's driving us batty? Nope--get it out of the way from the get-go... that's my choice.

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 11/23/2008 9:47:48 AM >

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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 9:47:56 AM   
Twicehappy2x


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Status: offline 		To nobody in particular;
 
Below is a link to a thread Jewel started due to the same guy/issues. Might give a better perspective as to some of the problem.
 
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2296360/mpage_1/tm.htm

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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 9:54:33 AM   
Twicehappy2x


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

The folks who are a good fit for us are the ones who aren't going to wig out about how we discuss both today and the future

so why should I fake it and buffer my communication to make them feel all comfy-cozy, let them into our lives, and then have them tell us that we're NOTHING like we seemed when we were in negotiations?


And again i'll say AMEN.
 
Much like the problems you were having over the prospective household members who ran when they discovered your grown ums lived with you and were aware of your lifestyle, if they could not accept that, they were a bad fit. Better to find out right away.
 
Yes, we are upfront, and for exactly the same reasons. "You never mentioned that!"
 
While it is true that time spent can alter some things, it is also true there are things it cannot. We are simply aware of what we are willing to negotiate on and what we aren't.

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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 9:57:17 AM   
kyraofMists


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Status: offline 		Well, I don't consider choosing the style of communication that is effective for the person I am dealing with as being fake.  I don't have just one way to communicate.  I communicate in multiple ways and it depends on what I think will be the most effective with the person I am dealing with.  It isn't about not being who I am or being fake; it is about effectively communicating. 

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 10:00:31 AM   
KatyLied


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quote:

It isn't about not being who I am or being fake; it is about effectively communicating. 


True.  I went to a seminar a few weeks ago on effectively communicating with different personality types.


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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 10:06:24 AM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied
True.  I went to a seminar a few weeks ago on effectively communicating with different personality types.


I would have really enjoyed that seminar.  There are some people that I have not learned the skill of communicating effectively with.  I am also a big fan of it this way isn't working for me, then I need to find another way.

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 10:31:45 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		I wonder if some are mistaking different styles of communication for different situations, as communicating different information for different situations.

To simplify, I would not explain who the girl coming to stay with me was and why she is coming the same way to.......a 4 yo, my adult children, my father, my boss, etc...

Each person is going to get an explanation that fits them. No explanation will be a lie, just worded in a way that fits their individual comprehension and "need to know".

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 11/23/2008 10:32:32 AM >

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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 10:35:11 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Status: offline 		Also one thing I've noticed is that I'm kinda unique in my choices in profession.  Early on I figured I'd be very much a career type person, though likely not a typical career.  Then I fell in love!  Then I loved my family!  Then I moved and had a chance to take care of a home for two months!

It was then I realized my priorities had shifted.  So while I COULD pretty much do whatever I wanted, with my smarts and my resources, I could get whatever necessary education, and could play the game and make all those bucks and be in charge of all those people...that's not what I want.  Those aren't my priorities.

What's more, I do still continue to work because I've decided a path that allows me the comforts of what I like, but not financial independence- but I have no real attachment to my job.  I do it well, I like doing a good job, but I finish really quickly, surf around a lot, hardly ever do overtime, and go home and enjoy my life. 

I run into a lot of friction with other people, mostly older generations, in job perspectives.  They are REALLY proud of their jobs, REALLY have a lot of attachment to them, REALLY put in the extra hours and work the teams- even as subs and slaves, it's very important for them to perform and progress in their career path. 

There's nothing wrong with that- simply that it's a totally different focus in life and fulfillment and I would say nearly impossible for someone to make a dramatic shift in values.  Again, it shocked the heck out of ME when I realized I'd be darned fulfilled not working for money and "career."

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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 10:43:39 AM   
NihilusZero


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Status: offline 		Coming into this one late too...

I'm not sure I agree with the mentality of pussyfooting around an issue that will inevitably have to be dealt with because the other person may fall into some epiphany that they can do it when their steadfast a priori presumption is that they cannot or will not.

I think that leads into very dangerous areas... It's not because, just maybe, you will unexpectedly find that the other magically is compatible with the status that you eventually seek, but because you are in fact placing expectations on them by not placing immediate expectations. In theory, sure, it sounds easy to just play the "well, if nothing else you'll work out as a friend" game...but emotions often do not follow suit when the theory is pushed into practice. You develop chemistry...you develop attachment and then you suddenly have yourself a wishful hope that someone who cannot admit readiness for X may be okay with it if it's softly rolled out onto the table. And even then, it's a maybe...at which point a whole lot of internal investment has been paid for a situation which you'll have to demote into a 'friends' box in the end.

How much money do you spend on the lottery on the chance that you'll hit the unexpected jackpot rather that forsaking the game and concentrate on something that you know will give you the payout you expect?


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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 11:08:13 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
I'm not sure I agree with the mentality of pussyfooting around an issue that will inevitably have to be dealt with because the other person may fall into some epiphany that they can do it when their steadfast a priori presumption is that they cannot or will not.


I don't believe anyone is suggesting that there should be any pussy footing around!... Be direct be honest... but shit don't start getting into conversations well beyond the status of the relationships in the first place.


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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 11:28:25 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

... but shit don't start getting into conversations well beyond the status of the relationships in the first place.

Why not? Isn't that the point of any deep bonding interaction? To ascertain how likely an individual will be at fulfilling your end-point type of relationship?

Maybe for most people the slow courtship and discovery process is an expected thing, but I don't see why we wouldn't filter through the possible partner options by finding out who has at least something similar to our eventual expectations.

I totally understand that getting into a relationship shouldn't mean immediately transitioning into full-out ideal dynamics...but I think discussing things ("This is where I would ideally like to arrive at, potentially with you") at least makes sure both individuals are looking in the same direction.

Talking about eventual expectations doesn't mean they have to be enacted at that very moment. I think some people have a tendency to get scared off by the pressure of that, though...and, personally, I don't really feel comfortable with it. It usually smells of someone being unsure of what they want (because even people who are pretty sure but have thought about it leave themselves a window of potentially having their minds changed).

Why do I want to devote extra time and effort into a potential relationship with someone who may decide that X is for them, when it's something I'm going to need eventually?

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"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 11:34:49 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

... but shit don't start getting into conversations well beyond the status of the relationships in the first place.

Why not? Isn't that the point of any deep bonding interaction? To ascertain how likely an individual will be at fulfilling your end-point type of relationship?



I think it is more important to find out if we are going in the same direction first.  Otherwise, stating to a complete stranger... "Bitch Kneel and Serve me" ... would be a very accepting mating ritual in our lifestyle.



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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 11:42:08 AM   
KatyLied


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quote:

Isn't that the point of any deep bonding interaction?


Before you've met and spent time with them?  No.  Please don't let your desperate show.


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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 11:44:20 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I think it is more important to find out if we are going in the same direction first.  Otherwise, stating to a complete stranger... "Bitch Kneel and Serve me" ... would be a very accepting mating ritual in our lifestyle.

But this highlights the point I'm trying to make. The difference between enacting it right off the bat (which is a bit silly) and talking about whether "Bitch, Kneel and Serve me" is a dynamic both parties want (eventually).

To the point of the OP, though...the prospect of potentially sacrificing living abode and career/job would be one of those things that would determine of there is a "same direction", no?

Or maybe I'm discussing a slightly different topic than what has actually been debated here (which is entirely possible since I didn't trudge through all pages of the thread).


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 11:49:06 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Isn't that the point of any deep bonding interaction?


Before you've met and spent time with them?  No.  Please don't let your desperate show.


Your pseudo-clever dig at the end is unbecoming.

Perhaps entertain the idea that the entirety of the details of the thread are not in the expanse of things I'm aware of having just come into the thread. And even then there is no fast and loose set of regulations for when is the appropriate time to assess someone's ability to fulfill what you seek.

Perhaps your concept of emotional prudishness, however, feels more solidified at being able to send an aloof snicker at others outside of your 'proper' parameters (even when the assumption is erroneous)?


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"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 11:50:08 AM   
YourhandMyAss


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Status: offline 		Yes it is certaintly nice to have someplace to house visiting family, specially if it's gonna be a long visit of a week or more, We don't get familly much fortunatly, but when we do my mom choses to up sleep o n the couch and giving up  her bedroom, since she feels it's the proper thing to do And let me tell you her choice in couches sucks as far as comfort and sleepability goes lol..
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

I still own an apartment an have no intention of ever giving it up. Not because i foresee ever needing it, simply because it is very useful for visiting myself or for other family members to use when they are in town to visit the majority of my family.
 


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RE: 24/7 living arrangements? What would you consider i... - 11/23/2008 12:00:19 PM   
Padriag


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I think it is more important to find out if we are going in the same direction first.  Otherwise, stating to a complete stranger... "Bitch Kneel and Serve me" ... would be a very accepting mating ritual in our lifestyle.

But this highlights the point I'm trying to make. The difference between enacting it right off the bat (which is a bit silly) and talking about whether "Bitch, Kneel and Serve me" is a dynamic both parties want (eventually).

To the point of the OP, though...the prospect of potentially sacrificing living abode and career/job would be one of those things that would determine of there is a "same direction", no?

Or maybe I'm discussing a slightly different topic than what has actually been debated here (which is entirely possible since I didn't trudge through all pages of the thread).


Yes and no... there's a subtle point to be made here.  On the one hand, yeah, you need to figure out if the other person is going in generally the same direction as you.  However, how exactly someone goes about that can make all the difference in the world.  Being too blunt, too direct, or too aggressive can ruin the whole process.  Some topics shouldn't be seriously discussed until after other issues have been addressed.

Put another way, you wouldn't discuss what kind of cake to have at the wedding with someone you just asked out and haven't had the first date with yet.  Its moving too fast and getting events out of order.

Instead, we go on the date, we talk to the other person and get to know them.  During that, we start to figure out what their goals are, how well that matches with ours, whether we really like them or not or if we just want to fuck them and move on.  If it clicks, we move on in the process, we build comfort and trust, we escalate attraction, next thing you know you're picking out cake. 

But odds are you don't get there without taking all the steps.  You might, but its going against the odds.

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