RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 5:49:44 AM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

Sounds like he got cold feet about relocating when he began to imagine the reality of it.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Profile

Post #: 41

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 6:04:54 AM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline

Hi Jewel, I responded to this on twice's thread, and it's late so I won't say it all again. Only to say I think this could be a hard one to get past, sorry!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to TNstepsout)

Profile

Post #: 42

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 6:06:48 AM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

t

I've even told him that if he decided to move here he could continue working until he was comfortable with giving it up. And that he didn't need to sell his home... he didn't need to give up anything that could be construed as his personal security. That's as far as I will compromise. Even that is a stretch for us, Scooter is retiring in a few months and we would really like to be able to travel and it just would feel toooo wrong for us to go on month long vacations and have to leave someone at home because of an outside job.

Ok I misunderstood from your first statement. You ARE requiring that at some point he will have to give up his job and be financially dependent on you and your husband? If he knows that he absolutely can never, and will never be able to do that (hard limit) he would be deceiving you if he agreed to it.. It sounds like he's trying to be honest with you and hoping you will change your mind about it. It's a really huge step, especially in these uncertain times. Even though it's not immediate, he knows it is your ultimate goal and it's non-negotiable. So you have a point in the contract that neither of you are willing to negotiate, so I can see why he keeps bringing it up. That means you aren't compatible.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Profile

Post #: 43

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 8:06:46 AM

SthrnCom4t

Posts: 343
Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline

I think everyone prior has offered up some great points, so I won't repeat. He needs to be willing to explore the issue in depth. Process the fear/sticking point, not just in the now, but over some time...as that generally gives a different perspective. Its like standing up close to a wall where a circle has been drawn. Most of your view is taken up by the inside of the circle. As you step away, you see more wall, until eventually, the circle is just a small percentage of your entire view.

Whenever I'm experiencing a strong emotion that is not exactly pleasant, I remind myself of the above visualization. Time definitely is helpful in the 'stepping back' process. A good night's sleep is a charm; 24 hours simply amazing in difference.

Unfortunately, not all of us, when finding a landmine/fear, want to analyze the hell of out so it can be disarmed. Some just want to treat it like a rattlesnake and let it be. (and move away as quickly as possible)

When a boy is willing to trust in 'our' process; trust that I'm not going to push him to do anything he can't handle...then we have something to work with. If he's not in that space, then to me, that's a sign that we aren't compatible for the long term, and I wish him good luck. (Usually after he's been MIA for a week or more - some of the excuses they come up with for 'disappearing' can be quite inventive. I realize they have just found an island of safety, however, I've now seen their default behavior, so unless there is a huge opening of dialog/expression, I'm done anyway).

Jewel - this one might have to be the fish that wiggled off the hook just prior to you getting him in the boat. I'm truly sorry, I know how disappointing that can be.

Sthrn
Honorably served by OttersSwim

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Profile

Post #: 44

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 8:21:49 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Sounds like he got cold feet about relocating when he began to imagine the reality of it.

This was my hit, too. I would have taken a deep breath, stepped back, and said (to him and myself), "What is this really about?" I think you were arguing about the symptom, not the cause.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to TNstepsout)

Profile

Post #: 45

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 8:42:12 AM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

First, let me address the idea that yes, he will eventually have to quit his job. But... and this is a biggie and I've said it before... All of his money, from everything, the sale of the house, his 401k and whatever income he has made in the mean time will still be his. I do not expect a penny from him. He is in his 50's and I'm sorry, but you can't ask for a better retirement then having absolutely no bills and keeping all of your income. We'll even provide the medical insurance. I'm sorry, but I don't believe it's cold feet, I don't believe it's insecurity, I honestly believe it's simply a point he can't seem to see past... And yeah, it's definately a fish that got away story.

I guess the main reason for starting this thread was to try and understand what happens, how and why it does. And so that I don't feel alone in this... lol

Thank you all for your input and different view points, all are equally valuable.

Jewel

PS... Yes, we've quite frequently come across the "if it sounds to good to be true it probably is" thing. But sometimes, just sometimes, it is true.

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Profile

Post #: 46

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 8:44:38 AM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Sounds like he got cold feet about relocating when he began to imagine the reality of it.

This was my hit, too. I would have taken a deep breath, stepped back, and said (to him and myself), "What is this really about?" I think you were arguing about the symptom, not the cause.

I meant to address this specifically RedMagic...can you elaborate? At what point do you believe that frame of mind came into the picture? When would it have hit you? This is a side I know absolutely nothing about and I would appreciate your point of view.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Profile

Post #: 47

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 9:03:42 AM

DavanKael

Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
See, normally I would absolutely agree with you. But this one went so far as to write to twice with the "OMG, she's upset with me... what do I do?" thing. She replied, told him about the single issue that really isn't an issue at all. He never replied to her after that. Then when I finally broke down and wrote to him... his reply was all about that issue.... grrr. No, it had nothing to do with kink. He was concerned about not working. About giving up his house and all that. I told him NOT to consider selling his house (that was his idea in the first place), I told him not to even consider selling so much as a book. He could come here, transfer his job and rent out his house until such a time that he was confident enough to do anything else. In the mean time I told him that any and all income from him would be his and his alone. We don't need the money. So I get this reply... but I don't want to quit working.
I don't normally use emots... but
Jewel

Hi, Jewel----
I read and, I think, offered a comment on Twice's thread earlier.
Let me see if I understand:
This s-type has been under consideration for quite some time now and one of the house rules is that ultimately, s-types don't work.
He's freaking about the idea of not working even though you have conveyed to him that you don't want him to stop working or to sell his house until y'all are sure everything is going to work out for everyone. Seems reasonable.
The statement is "...but I don't want to quit working."
Okay, assuming that that is a straight-up statement and he's expressing a truism that exists for him right now, what does working mean to him? What does not working mean to him?
To some, their work is a huge part of their identity, for others it connotes safety/security, perhaps it is a means of feeling like he is being most holistically himself, I don't know him but you guys do, so what do you think is the self-talk/fear that is underlying this? Have you queried him about this and, if so, what does he say?
Wishing you and yours well,
Davan

I've even told him that if he decided to move here he could continue working until he was comfortable with giving it up. And that he didn't need to sell his home... he didn't need to give up anything that could be construed as his personal security. That's as far as I will compromise. Even that is a stretch for us, Scooter is retiring in a few months and we would really like to be able to travel and it just would feel toooo wrong for us to go on month long vacations and have to leave someone at home because of an outside job.

The biggest point though is the complete fixation on that one point. I can ask him how he feels about this or that, why he feels this way or that way... but none of it gets through that brick wall. Surely someone has experienced it from either side of the kneel and knows a way around it?? Like I said, normally I would have just blown it off but it seems to be bothering him as much as it does me.

Jewel

Hi, Jewel----
I am sorry that you and your family are going through this. It's no new news to you, I know, that no matter how clear and how straight forwrd we are, sometimes things go awry.
I don't know how to get around walls that people insist on putting up and refusing to take down; I bashed my head against several sorts of these in a relationship on which you offered me advice.
If he's having such a visceral, reactionary response, he's not allowing himself to think clearly. I think he needs to do that if he is willing to try to work beyond the walls. This may sounds silly but very basic things like cueing into what your body does when you are feeling anxious (Ie: Jaw clenching, shoulders tightening, etc.) and working against them through relaxation may be part of a step.
Then, really beginning to exercise the self-discovery and willingness to delve into what it means to him to quit his job, revisiting the physical de-escalation things above, so that he can also cue his mind to chill out. Also, you mentioned him thinking you may be mad. Re-assuring him he isn't bieng abandoned is probably an important piece.
I am a believer that any of these types of walls can be scaled if people are willing to put in the work.
Some free-floating thoughts: continuing to work is a kind of control, a safety blanket. If one has no means of support and is abandoned, it would be worse. Fear. Abandonment. Control. These are words that are coming readily to mind.
I'll check back in later and if I come up with anything else I think could possibly be of help, I'll float it.
I sincerely wish you and yours the best. :>
Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Profile

Post #: 48

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 10:01:59 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

Jewel... it's not just you. We've run into the same thing... even with folks who have been part-time, casual servants around our household for a while. Something comes up in a conversation, and first thing you know, they're off and running. Heck, we had one boy over who had been around for a few months. He was helping us out with our library in NC (which a few folks here who helped us with our move will know how extensive a library we keep). We were talking about something in one of the books (an Ayn Rand) on a philosophical level, and the boy completely flipped out... he looked at us, stopped what he was doing, and walked out the door.... then wrote us later and said that he could NEVER live with people who thought the way that we do about that clip from the book... (and he wasn't even in contention to live with us full-time for other reasons, so we'd never even discussed the possibility of becoming live-in with him), and we never saw him again. He did, however, proceed to write us almost -daily- about how sick our ideas were, and proceeded to tell the community how disturbing we were. He was completely fixated on that one theoretical concept...based on a philosophical discussion and with no possibility of ever being exposed to such or having to face it in real life... so much so that he didn't even think about what he'd see in the 4 months he'd been around us.

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Profile

Post #: 49

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 11:26:19 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

I guess the main reason for starting this thread was to try and understand what happens, how and why it does. And so that I don't feel alone in this... lol

this is where I believe you went wrong

quote:

Then, one day you are discussing “goals” for the relationship

your relationship was email and phone calls... You never met... getting into talking about goals for THE relationship is putting the horse before the cart. You essentially didn't have a relationship of any significance. Was there Emotional Attachment of any degree? I suspect there wasn't... or at least.. the emotional feeling he had with this issue Far out weighted any emotional attachment he had for you and family.

Emotional attachment is a good thing. But... we need to understand a person has emotional feeling about alot of issues. Over the months before Kyra came to see me.. I learned about alot about not just what she thought... but how she felt of many things. I learn about her! thougths and feelings.. I listend to those things... In the end... she felt heard and understood and appreciated.. it motivated her to learn more about me. In the end... we both began having intense emotional attachments to each other before we actually met. We didn't acknowledge those emotions until we met and we didn't talk about relationship goals or plans or what we want with each other either. We learned about who each other was. When the decision was made that we wanted to be in a relationship with each other... then the real hard work began.

editted to add...

just curious... I know you tried to minimize his fear or concern about the house, job etc. BUT, did you ever ask Why he feels the way he does... or where you busy just trying to fix that feeling.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 11/23/2008 11:28:42 AM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Profile

Post #: 50

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 1:08:57 PM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

Of course I asked him why. And like I said in the other thread, I did not discuss long term goals for him and I, I told him right up front what I needed from a sub/slave. From the beginning he knew exactly what I wanted and he also knew that I was willing to wait for it. As far as why? Because he's always worked, that's why. Grew up on a farm and worked his whole life.

No, I don't believe that's where I went wrong. I wouldn't dream of talking to someone and attempt to start a relationship without first being up front about where I wanted it to go. And yes, I've always been that way. If all I want is a one night stand, or just sex and nothing else, I've always been completely up front about it. You're suggestion would be what? No, there was no emotional attachment from my side... and I told him that too. I told him that as far as I'm concerned he wasn't anything more then words on a screen and that, honestly, neither am I to him. As far as I'm concerned telling someone up front that eventually I want someone that can stay at home and not work outside the household is no different the me saying I'd prefer someone that is willing to join a poly home. I wouldn't court someone that states that they will NOT do poly and I will not keep need to know information from someone that I do court. I honestly believe that them knowing up front that I do want them to "retire" from working outside the home is so much better then waiting until they get here, get comfy and everyone gets attached to each other and then suddenly start pressuring them about their job. If they are aware up front of what it is that I/we need in a relationship then they always have the opportunity to say no, not for them. He had that opportunity, countless times, and yet he kept saying that he was ok with it... and now suddenly he is stuck on that point. He told me that when we are talking about it he's fine with, then after we finish talking he suddenly isn't ok with it... So yeah, we've talked about it. We've beat that horse to a bloody pulp. And if he wants to talk about it more, then we will. But we can only talk about it as much as he wishes to talk about it. I will not push him to do something he isn't comfortable doing.

My issue with starting this thread was that maybe someone has been there, done that, and can't help me navigate around it. I honestly believe it bothers him(not the fact that I want him to quit working, the fact that he is having so much trouble getting a handle on it) as much as it has bothered me.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Profile

Post #: 51

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 1:25:33 PM

FullfigRIMAAM1

Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
you can't ask for a better retirement then having absolutely no bills and keeping all of your income. We'll even provide the medical insurance. I'm sorry, but I don't believe it's cold feet, I don't believe it's insecurity, I honestly believe it's simply a point he can't seem to see past... And yeah, it's definately a fish that got away story.
Jewel

Were I born a boy, and submissive, I would absolutely jump at the chance to live like this, with my reserve intact, and simply serve without being in the rat race. Alas, I don't possess the required equiment or inclinations unfortunately.

M

_____________________________

The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Profile

Post #: 52

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 1:53:45 PM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Sounds like he got cold feet about relocating when he began to imagine the reality of it.

This was my hit, too. I would have taken a deep breath, stepped back, and said (to him and myself), "What is this really about?" I think you were arguing about the symptom, not the cause.

I meant to address this specifically RedMagic...can you elaborate? At what point do you believe that frame of mind came into the picture? When would it have hit you? This is a side I know absolutely nothing about and I would appreciate your point of view.

Jewel

I can't speak for Red Magic, but what I meant by it was that the fantasy of being a live-in slave was wonderful, but when he faced the idea of actually selling his home and belongings, quitting his job, finding a new job and relocating the reality of what he was considering sank in. It's a huge step to go from being independent to being completely dependent on another person. Especially one you do not yet know well. I know you said it wouldn't be immediate, but maybe when he really started thinking about what that meant, he realized he couldn't do it.

Giving up your financial independence is not something to be taken lightly. It's not something I would ever do, even in a marriage. Never ever EVER! I know you say he would have the proceeds from the sale of his home, 401k etc..., but maybe he's thinking at his age that if something happens to the relationship with you, he would be looking for a job in a really tough job market, at 50+, with a gap in his resume he will need to explain. How long could he survive on the proceeds of his home and 401k before they are depleted (or significantly reduced). How would that impact his ability to retire? How much is his income now vs. a new job in a new city? That's what I mean by reality vs. fantasy.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Profile

Post #: 53

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 1:59:30 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

He had that opportunity, countless times, and yet he kept saying that he was ok with it... and now suddenly he is stuck on that point.

mmmmmmmmmm this comment is very much in contradiction to what you said in your OP

quote:

The contact is daily and everything seems more then perfect. Then, one day you are discussing “goals” for the relationship, one goal in particular catches his attention and SNAP… you can almost hear that internal switch going “pop”. They say it isn’t something they think they would be able to do

Your OP as clearly suggested that you hit a brick wall on a given issue that you clearly express that you became immediately aware of .... But now with your latest post you are implying something very different. Difficult to understand what really happen here when a person reads this type of inconsistency. He might be having the same difficulty with mix messages.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Profile

Post #: 54

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 3:39:39 PM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

I became immediately aware of it as soon as he was aware of. And, honestly... those are details that I left out on purpose. I'm not seeking advise on what many may or may not think I did wrong... albeit plentiful. I was asking in a non-specific way if anyone else had ever been in a similar situation. Presumption is never a good thing. The topic at hand is still... has anyone, no matter what side of the kneel you are on... ever been in that situation?

TN.. you hit a really good point there. I don't really know what his 401k looks like, nor do I know how much equity he has in his home and it may well not be enough to give him the comfort required to look at retirement if on the chance we didn't work out then he would have a tough road to go. And the new job thing would actually be the same job, just a different location, he works for a large company that has a location close to us. I do appreciate your input... it's difficult to see the other side of things sometimes. For the next question though... lol How do you work around those issues? At least bring them down to a dull roar so you can talk over them?

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Profile

Post #: 55

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 4:07:00 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
I meant to address this specifically RedMagic...can you elaborate? At what point do you believe that frame of mind came into the picture? When would it have hit you?

As soon as things stopped making logical sense. People do things for reasons, and avoid things for reasons. The trouble is, they don't always know what those reasons are, until they verbalize them to others. If you are talking with someone whose judgment you trust so much that you are offering him a place in your home, and suddenly "out of the blue" things are non-rational and non-sensible, you are not in possession of all the facts. As others have said, it is time to start asking, "Why?" not "What?" You have to get underneath what is being said. What is his motivation, what are his hopes, dreams and aspirations? And... it's not good enough to say, "He already told me that stuff." He told that to you when everything was making sense. Something's different now, and you have to re-visit what you thought you already knew.

Better luck next time.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Profile

Post #: 56

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 4:17:22 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

You can't talk to him if he isn't talking. If he can't express what he is feeling for whatever reasons, you can't get answers he may not even understand. I think most of us could understand someone having fears about a move or major change or even a relationship. It is the lack of communication that I would be concerned about.

I have been in a similar situation. Not with anyone here I think I might need to add. lol Even to the point of our year long relationship being changed and ended because of fears he had. It would have been nice to know before I changed a lot in my life! lol The thing in this situation that reminds me of what I went through is the fact that no matter what is said... he is hearing something else. That isn't a typcial in general fear. That is found deeper inside of the man in my opinion and from what I have experienced and what is being said here. If they can't talk about it or hear the things you are actually saying... then it is far more serious than second thoughts or concerns even.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Profile

Post #: 57

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 4:23:57 PM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

You can't talk to him if he isn't talking. If he can't express what he is feeling for whatever reasons, you can't get answers he may not even understand. I think most of us could understand someone having fears about a move or major change or even a relationship. It is the lack of communication that I would be concerned about.

I have been in a similar situation. Not with anyone here I think I might need to add. lol Even to the point of our year long relationship being changed and ended because of fears he had. It would have been nice to know before I changed a lot in my life! lol The thing in this situation that reminds me of what I went through is the fact that no matter what is said... he is hearing something else. That isn't a typcial in general fear. That is found deeper inside of the man in my opinion and from what I have experienced and what is being said here. If they can't talk about it or hear the things you are actually saying... then it is far more serious than second thoughts or concerns even.

Thank you, that made more sense then I can say.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to Lockit)

Profile

Post #: 58

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 4:31:36 PM

Celene

Posts: 158
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet

As sad a situation that it creates, and despite the disappointment which follows,

consuming liver and onions shall always be delegated to the forbidden zone.

Brussel sprouts, negotiable.

chia* (the pet)

Now I'm fixated on this brilliant pet.
Liver and onions is a hard limit. Well at least the liver.

(in reply to chiaThePet)

Profile

Post #: 59

RE: Fixation, it's more common then I thought - 11/23/2008 7:12:42 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

I think that meeting in person should come quickly if possible and that it is better to take small steps than big leaps. My sense too is that he has some deep seated fears but only he can answer what and why. Maybe part of his block is the disconnect of moving from phone phone calls and e-mails to real life. He cannot visualize past that point and does not want to make a big committment until meeting and knowing all of you in person. IMHO.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Profile

Post #: 60