RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border

RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (Full Version)

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popeye1250 -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/25/2008 10:45:46 PM)
Heretic, what war on drugs? There hasn't been one as far as I know. If there were that would involve carpet bombing whole cities in Mexico, Colombia and other countries yes?

TheHeretic -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/25/2008 11:01:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cagey18 And the U.S. can create jobs in Mexico how? We're trying to create jobs in our own country! By encouraging them to become a country where business can do business. I'm not an isolationist. If goods that are being made all over the world and shipped here could be made across the border and trucked directly to the distribution center, it works for both countries.

TheHeretic -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/25/2008 11:07:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Heretic, what war on drugs? Sorry, Popeye. You might have heard of it as the Coast Guard/Customs/DEA Retirement Plan [;)]

UncleNasty -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/25/2008 11:10:24 PM)
No, far from a magic solution. I've been telling this joke off and on fir several years. How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb? One, but the bulb has to want to change. I used to work as a wilderness guide/therapist. Teens were sentenced to 30 days of me in the woods before they graduated from juvie, LOL. Our recidivist rate was quite high. I knew that and could tell which ones I thought least likely to stay out of trouble. It was disappointing. Still, I/we provided them an opportunity to learn and experience new things and to behave in new ways. Coming from the places most of them did they really needed another view of the world. Even if they did reoffend I felt they deserved a glimpse of there being other possibilities in their lives. I hope many/most of them remembered some of their successes and eventually used those to build others and make deeper changes. Most addicts made the choices that led them to addiction at a very young age. They were usually powerless due to youth (anything from 3 - 10 years old), had no idea the significance of their decisions, or where they would lead them. They were making the best decisions they knew how to make given the circumstances and in many cases they made them with a primary motive being their survival. I have never known anyone that made a conscious decision to become a meth addict and loose all of their teeth by the age of 25. I have a great deal of empathy for people struggling under a yoke such as addiction. Wanting to become sober is an easy choice to make. Having the strength and courage to travel back in time and uncover the root causes of that addiction is another matter alotgether. Slaying our own inner demons is probably the scariest thing any of us ever do. And probably the hardest too as most of us kept those parts so well hidden from ourselves for a long, long time. I don't advocate for endless chances. I don't have the clearest of ideas when the chances need to stop. But as I look at our current system I feel there are not enough chances for enough people. And for the record I'm not all that fond of 12 step programs. Certainly many have met with success in them. I just don't like the model. One handed Uncle Nasty

tweedydaddy -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 3:13:04 AM)
Legalise all drugs and tax them to the bollocks. Drugs are only popular as they are naughty. Kids would lose interest and go back to stealing cider. The pushers would all go broke. The smuggling networks would have to switch to dodgy designer handbags. The growers would have to go back to coffee or tobacco. With nothing to fight over the turf wars would stop. Drugs are not that much fun without the frisson of illegality Before they were outlawed, were things really that bad? It's just like prohibition, once legal, the thrill was gone. If the unwinnable war on drugs was dropped, the army of people involved could be put to better use and the national budget saving could easily fund free health care for the whole of the United States, have you any idea how much money this narrow minded, blinkered appraoch is costing you? You could easily afford to treat all the addicts and compensate for any damage the drug culture caused with a fraction of the money the world would save. The only people with a real interest in keeping drugs illegal are the people who make money from it.

Cagey18 -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 6:36:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Cagey, "worsening international relations" with who, Mexico? I already mentioned this in a previous post. Clearly you must realize that it would harm relations with many other countries in the world. Those 158 signatories of the Ottawa Treaty, for example.

Irishknight -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 6:49:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy Legalise all drugs and tax them to the bollocks. Drugs are only popular as they are naughty. Kids would lose interest and go back to stealing cider. The pushers would all go broke. The smuggling networks would have to switch to dodgy designer handbags. The growers would have to go back to coffee or tobacco. With nothing to fight over the turf wars would stop. Drugs are not that much fun without the frisson of illegality Before they were outlawed, were things really that bad? It's just like prohibition, once legal, the thrill was gone. If the unwinnable war on drugs was dropped, the army of people involved could be put to better use and the national budget saving could easily fund free health care for the whole of the United States, have you any idea how much money this narrow minded, blinkered appraoch is costing you? You could easily afford to treat all the addicts and compensate for any damage the drug culture caused with a fraction of the money the world would save. The only people with a real interest in keeping drugs illegal are the people who make money from it. I can't quite agree with all of that. Legalize pot and treat it the same way as alcohol. That is a good idea. Evaluate the other drugs to see which ones actually cause harm to people. Those that don't get legalized. Those that do get labeled as poison and people caught selling them are trated as attempted murderers. I have a friend whose body will never recover from the damage done by meth. That is a poison we should never treat as anything other than poison. I have numerous pothead friends who keep frito lay in business with the sheer magnitude of money they spend on cheetohs. Pot is good for the economy.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 7:26:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vendaval Hello beth, That is some important information I have not seen before. Do you have a link for that? Thanks, Ven Hi Ven!!! this slave's direct source is a book by author/activist Jack Herer, The Emporer Wears No Clothes: The Authoritative Historical Record of Cannabis and the Conspiracy Against Marijuana, 11th Edition, AH HA Publishing, 2000. it is currently out of stock at Amazon, but available for purchase and selected text from chapters are up for free perusal at Jack's website: http://www.jackherer.com/chapters.html there is an electronic version available as well at: http://www.electricemperor.com/eecdrom/ the specific statements this slave referred to in her previous post are included in: Anslinger's Congressional testimony of 1937(transcript included in the appendix of The Emporer Wear No Clothes) and The Marijuana Conviction, Bonnie, Richard & Whitebread, Charles, University of Virginia Press, 1974.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 7:46:31 AM)
quote: ...Pot is good for the economy. indeed. that must be why, the same federal government that steadfastly denies pot has any medicinal value, (the US of A), as represented by the Department of Health and Human Services, applied for(in 2001) and received (in 2003) a patent on cannabinoids as *antioxidants and neuroprotectors.* a portion of the abstract from US Patent #6630507: quote: ...Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases.The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia...

popeye1250 -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 9:51:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cagey18 quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Cagey, "worsening international relations" with who, Mexico? I already mentioned this in a previous post. Clearly you must realize that it would harm relations with many other countries in the world. Those 158 signatories of the Ottawa Treaty, for example. Cagey, "harm relations?" Is that like "offending someone?" Last time I checked it's not against the law to "offend" someone. And is S. Korea a signatory to the "Ottawa Treaty?" (They) have U.S. mines defending their border with N. Korea. Cagey, no country can run their own govt. based on trying to second guess what people in foreign countries may "think!" It is very clear that what Bush did surely didn't work along that border. If someone enters the U.S. other than through a legal port of entry they've just committed a federal felony, it's that simple, the law is very clear on this. What you're trying to say is that if we enforce our laws on illegal immigration then (that) may "harm international relations" with other countries? So in other words those foreign countries have the full intent of breaking our laws? Treaties don't usurp laws.

cuckyboy4U -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 10:26:25 AM)
it's amazing how the general public is in the total dark about the drug trade. The U.S. DOES NOT want to get rid of the drug trade. Every retired CIA agent I've ever heard speak on the subject has outlined this clearly.

philosophy -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 10:39:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 no country can run their own govt. based on trying to second guess what people in foreign countries may "think!" ...you may not have phrased that very well Popeye. Every government needs to second guess what other people in foreign countries think. That's why the USA has the CIA and the UK has MI6. Intel from foreign countries clearly has a knock on effect on the homeland. A good read on the thinking on other countries allows a foreign policy to be pro-active as opposed to reactive. There is an inescapable link between domestic policy and foreign policy.

popeye1250 -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 11:05:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 no country can run their own govt. based on trying to second guess what people in foreign countries may "think!" ...you may not have phrased that very well Popeye. Every government needs to second guess what other people in foreign countries think. That's why the USA has the CIA and the UK has MI6. Intel from foreign countries clearly has a knock on effect on the homeland. A good read on the thinking on other countries allows a foreign policy to be pro-active as opposed to reactive. There is an inescapable link between domestic policy and foreign policy. Phil, that may be true as far as intelligence goes but not as far as securing our borders, enforcing our immigration laws and dealing with drug smugglers and terrorists goes. All countries have the right and duty to it's citizens to stop those things.

Cagey18 -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 11:41:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 All countries have the right and duty to it's citizens to stop those things. Including, apparently, the right to blow up men, women, and children who set foot on their soil--based on the internationally-accepted standard of "if it works for South Korea..." And who gives a fuck what other countries think? Heaven forbid they might be "offended". [8\|]

UncleNasty -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 12:12:23 PM)
This issue could be handled in much less violent ways than snipers and mines. As popeye has kindly informed us entering into our country illegally is a federal felony. I think we need do nothing beyong utilizing and consistently enforcing laws we already have. Seems pretty simple to me. One handed Uncle Nasty

Cagey18 -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 12:25:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UncleNasty This issue could be handled in much less violent ways than snipers and mines. As popeye has kindly informed us entering into our country illegally is a federal felony. I think we need do nothing beyong utilizing and consistently enforcing laws we already have. Ya think?

Vendaval -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 12:55:22 PM)
Thanks so much, beth! Happy Thanksgiving to you and Merc.

UncleNasty -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 1:39:42 PM)
Yeah, cagey, I do think, and pretty much any time I can. Though admittedly it does give me a headache from time to time. One handed Uncle Nasty

Irishknight -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 4:33:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UncleNasty Yeah, cagey, I do think, and pretty much any time I can. Though admittedly it does give me a headache from time to time. One handed Uncle Nasty That is why everyone loves Uncle Nasty.

Politesub53 -> RE: Escalating drug wars in Mexico and the US border (11/26/2008 4:38:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckyboy4U it's amazing how the general public is in the total dark about the drug trade. The U.S. DOES NOT want to get rid of the drug trade. Every retired CIA agent I've ever heard speak on the subject has outlined this clearly. What reason did they give ?

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