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RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/24/2008 3:13:04 PM

hopelessfool

Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

okay you CANT top from the bottom. Honestly if the Doms in control theres no way the sub can take it away with out withdrawing consent. This isnt topping from the bottom this is withdrawing consent. If the dom isnt doing his god damned job well someone has to step up and do it for him and who better the the girl he claims to be topping? I mean You cant take control that isnt given to you. There for You cant top from the bottom because its either consentually given its just the dom playing emotional manipulation games to try to get the sub to agree to things they dont want to. Weak doms use this, why they cant control a sub any other way. So they play on their fears of am i submissive enough really? to get what they want as they are underhanded sneaky sons a bitches...

-mutters and looks around- Im not jaded I SWEAR....

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 21

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/24/2008 3:24:41 PM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

Honestly if the Doms in control theres no way the sub can take it away with out withdrawing consent.

Yes, but the OP is concerned with establishing separation of authority in the first instance. It seems to me that while the OP may have consented in words, she was game for disputing this authority with her actions.

Now, perhaps she's hit the first brick wall - he may have made it clear that his authority is not up for negotiation. The ball is in her court; she can go cap in hand to him and so they begin to establish who exactly is leading.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to hopelessfool)

Post #: 22

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/24/2008 4:56:45 PM

sexisubi

Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

okay you CANT top from the bottom.

Weak doms use this, why they cant control a sub any other way. So they play on their fears of am i submissive enough really? to get what they want as they are underhanded sneaky sons a bitches...

-mutters and looks around- Im not jaded I SWEAR....

i would disagree, there are ways to top from the bottom. For example, you meet a Dom, have gone on dates done the steps of dating and he comes back to your place (no its not for a cup of coffee.) You do your thing He does His (or She does Hers) and you end up leaving the situation thinking it should have been rougher harder meaner whatever! next time you meet you tell Him/Her, but things dont change all of the suddon you two are on the floor and you're telling them what you want done... at this point the play should stop right, obviously the Dom is no longer the Dom, you are? Or, to excert they can tell you to shut up and they get rougher and then it's too rough, you ask them to stop... and now you're both frustrated.

Subs take it, Doms give it, subs express limits and live by those limits. When you first meet a Dom you're in training anyway you're not submitting just yet, if you are that's kinda silly. You're getting to know eachother, emotionally, mentally, phisicly, and understand the limits. Perhaps the sub didn't see the next time they did things that things not only changed but it was a progression on what they did before... anyway i don't think it's a tactic... i know i have done the above senario before and walked away unhappy and no that didn't continue but i know there are subs out there that do it too, or still do it. Some of my Dom friends do tell me of these moments, and they are not fun to either party. At this point communication is key and timing is everything. So, even though i see that you might have never had an experiance where you have topped from the bottom (even though it's almost impossible or hard to find anyone who hasn't) it is possible to do it.

(in reply to hopelessfool)

Post #: 23

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/24/2008 6:43:48 PM

sultryone

Posts: 46
Joined: 10/9/2008
Status: offline

Wow, some excellent advice here and different views. Thank you.

I have no idea where our relationship is going to go. We are both pretty new and learning. I suppose things like this happen so communication can start on specific areas, so in that sense I hope that is what happens.

Thank you again everyone for your advice and posts, it is so helpful.

sultry

(in reply to sexisubi)

Post #: 24

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/24/2008 6:51:40 PM

FlamingRedhead

Posts: 451
Joined: 3/4/2007
From: Georgia
Status: offline

To me, "topping from the bottom" is referring to a scene in which the bottom is directing the actions of the top, and as someone else pointed out, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

You have to decide to give up control. You will only be able to do that after he's gained your trust. Depending on whether or not you have trust issues, this could take awhile. You may have to test him to make sure he's able to handle you.

It "only" took me a year and a half to trust my dominant, and we were split up for the last 6 months. My testing nearly destroyed what trust he had in me. Granted, I may be a "special" case.....special with a capital R. *lol* The fact is that I kept trying to control the relationship, and it was like hitting a brick wall, to borrow someone else's analogy. I can be extremely stubborn. It was very frustrating to put it mildly. Okay, it drove me fucking ape shit! He either wouldn't even acknowledge me, or he'd tell me to fill up my boots and keep on trying if I thought I was big enough to take him on. *shivers* Anyway, we got back together, and I found myself doing it again. The reaction was the same, but instead of driving me crazy, it's now comforting. He's in control, and it's okay. *smiles*

Hopefully, you're a quick learner.

And I also agree with Michael.

_____________________________

I'm so addicted to
All the things you do
When you're going down on me
In between the sheets
Or the sound you make
With every breath you take
It's unlike anything
When you're loving me

(in reply to sultryone)

Post #: 25

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/24/2008 9:02:55 PM

StrongSpirit

Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline

I am reminded of Sherlock Holmes. He had a brother that was better than he, but did not enjoy detective work.

It is possible for someone to be an effective dominant person but not enjoy it. We sometimes call these people vanilla corporate tools.
It is possible for someone to be enjoy dominating others, but suck at it. We sometimes call these people 'wannabes'.

Same with submission.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 26

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 3:24:01 AM

hopelessfool

Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

okay you CANT top from the bottom.

Weak doms use this, why they cant control a sub any other way. So they play on their fears of am i submissive enough really? to get what they want as they are underhanded sneaky sons a bitches...

-mutters and looks around- Im not jaded I SWEAR....

i would disagree, there are ways to top from the bottom. For example, you meet a Dom, have gone on dates done the steps of dating and he comes back to your place (no its not for a cup of coffee.) You do your thing He does His (or She does Hers) and you end up leaving the situation thinking it should have been rougher harder meaner whatever! next time you meet you tell Him/Her, but things dont change all of the suddon you two are on the floor and you're telling them what you want done... at this point the play should stop right, obviously the Dom is no longer the Dom, you are? Or, to excert they can tell you to shut up and they get rougher and then it's too rough, you ask them to stop... and now you're both frustrated.

Subs take it, Doms give it, subs express limits and live by those limits. When you first meet a Dom you're in training anyway you're not submitting just yet, if you are that's kinda silly. You're getting to know eachother, emotionally, mentally, phisicly, and understand the limits. Perhaps the sub didn't see the next time they did things that things not only changed but it was a progression on what they did before... anyway i don't think it's a tactic... i know i have done the above senario before and walked away unhappy and no that didn't continue but i know there are subs out there that do it too, or still do it. Some of my Dom friends do tell me of these moments, and they are not fun to either party. At this point communication is key and timing is everything. So, even though i see that you might have never had an experiance where you have topped from the bottom (even though it's almost impossible or hard to find anyone who hasn't) it is possible to do it.

So I tell my partner I prefer X of Y and Thats topping from the bottom. I beg or hell during a scene, THATS topping from the bottom. No thats not, topping from the bottom is taking away the control from the Top in the relationship. Hes still in control must learning what i like and what i dont IF I was saying go clean the bathroom and ill sit here and he did it, it wouldnt be topping from the bottom either, it be a role reversal where im now the Dom and hes the sub Topping from the bottom is nearly 99 percent used as an emotional manipulation tactic, or from a dom who CANT get his girl to submit. Ive never had that issue with my partners. Why? I submit to men who arent going to stoop to emotional mantipulation to try to control me.

Im still trying to figure out my dom trying to make a scene or relationship mutually benificial by taking my input on what i like and dont as topping from the bottom. The Ideas of whats done dont always come from the Dom, I mean its a Relationship it has to be good for both.... So How is any of what you described topping from the bottom.

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to sexisubi)

Post #: 27

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 3:45:49 AM

sexisubi

Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool
So I tell my partner I prefer X of Y and Thats topping from the bottom. I beg or hell during a scene.

If you and your Dom, are connected to a point where that is ok fine, but in my expereince it's better to wait for the scene to be over, your prefrences are youre prefrences but i do think this is topping from the bottom because no longer is it Him telling you what to do. 'Oh, dont want you to do it that way! i like it this way can we do it this way.. wait wait stop i dont want you flip me over... oh this is making my hands hurt a bunch could we just untie them.. oh wait please dont do it that way do it this way....' god it's enough to make a person go crazy!

Don't direct the scene.. thats controling the scene, if youre in pain and cant do it and you tried it didnt work fine say something let them know (Sir Master Madam Miss Mistress) please this hurts a bit please losen the ropes and beg for it and they do it fine you have to use the safe word understandable. However if you do this on a constant bases then you are unfortunetly topping from the bottem. You are controling the scene, and there for being Dom.

Of course there are times where if you say something it is not held offensive but if you're saying it during play then you're just killing the mood!

nilla example!

oh honey to the right... 'like this' yeah well wait left.. mmm right again.. ooh uh no dont lift my leg i cant feel anything that way... babe 'what' pull my hair... thanks. ooh thats better mm ah... oh hunny dont lift the leg remember there you go thanks...

i'm sorry but if i were a Dom or someone who didnt like trying new things oh yeah im walk out.. f that.

So maybe im thinking more on the extreem here while youre thinking more a light sense... if the person said oh dont lift my leg please and that was it... ok one thing big deal... but imagin something being said every minute or every two mins... it could get annoying and frustrating and in D/s topping from the bottom!

(in reply to hopelessfool)

Post #: 28

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 3:56:09 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

Snipped

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

a) She needed someone to stand firm at all times - regardless of whatever scheme she was cooking up.

b) She needed a period of hitting brick walls; a period where everything she tried was batted back to her; a period, to all intents and purposes, to burn herself out.

The reason: she was scared of bearing her soul and finding that the recipient wasn't equipped to handle her - in other words, scared that she was going to get no return on opening the floodgates. She put walls up that the SAS would struggle to get over!

The parts I underlined in NG's posts applied to me, although I didn't have particularly impressive walls for M to get over, I had a natural way of handling life and people around me that was not required with him.

He created an environment in which I could relinquish it, over time. He didn't expect me to trust him until it had been established that I could and he also didn't expect to me abandon the tools that keep me safe, overnight.

As I mentioned before, topping from the bottom was never mentioned. He was in control and simply showed me by his behaviour ..'' It's ok, you don't need to do that here and nor will you be able to''

agirl

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 29

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 4:08:56 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

So maybe im thinking more on the extreem here while youre thinking more a light sense... if the person said oh dont lift my leg please and that was it... ok one thing big deal... but imagin something being said every minute or every two mins... it could get annoying and frustrating and in D/s topping from the bottom!

I don't consider that topping from the bottom, I'd consider it 'trying' to, or being 'annoying and frustrating'. Actually doing so would require the dom to follow your directives. If you're being annoying and frustrating during a scene the dom can just stop, or take steps to stop your annoying behaviour. If he can't control the scene he's allowing himself to be 'topped'. That's his choice.

agirl

(in reply to sexisubi)

Post #: 30

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 4:15:09 AM

sexisubi

Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
I don't consider that topping from the bottom, I'd consider it 'trying' to, or being 'annoying and frustrating'. Actually doing so would require the dom to follow your directives. If you're being annoying and frustrating during a scene the dom can just stop, or take steps to stop your annoying behaviour. If he can't control the scene he's allowing himself to be 'topped'. That's his choice.

agirl

correct but, lets say the Dom stops the play... and walks out...

you would say the sub was trying to top from the bottom?

so there for it is possible for a sub to top from the bottom but the Dom doesn't take it but it can still be a valid complaint, and there for a Dom could say 'you were topping from the bottom.' Even if he did not allow it to happen... it is still used in context and it is still valid, they are still no less Dom, but it is still possible.

< Message edited by sexisubi -- 11/25/2008 4:21:49 AM >

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 31

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 4:25:39 AM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Hell no, if I am not enjoying something in the scene or I would like something else or something more, I aint waiting till the end of the scene to speak up. I am saying so right then and there if I am not enjoying it. If that's nice but in say 10 minutes maybe I'd like to be flogged, I ask.And fortunatly that is EXACTLY what Daddy wants me to do.

I think it is absolutely crazy to wait till a scene is over to speak up over something that was wrong for you or not working for you. Of course I don't put up with shit I don't like just for their sake either. IF you're the type who does then yeah you'll probably wait to speak up till play is done. Me I only play for funs sake Even in my bdsm relationship and even when I had a dominant. so I am different Either that or I just chose dominants who were on the same page as me a.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

If you and your Dom, are connected to a point where that is ok fine, but in my expereince it's better to wait for the scene to be over, your prefrences are youre prefrences but i do think this is topping from the bottom because no longer is it Him telling you what to do. 'Oh, dont want you to do it that way! i like it this way can we do it this way.. wait wait stop i dont want you flip me over... oh this is making my hands hurt a bunch could we just untie them.. oh wait please dont do it that way do it this way....' god it's enough to make a person go crazy!

Don't direct the scene.. thats controling the scene, if youre in pain and cant do it and you tried it didnt work fine say something let them know (Sir Master Madam Miss Mistress) please this hurts a bit please losen the ropes and beg for it and they do it fine you have to use the safe word understandable. However if you do this on a constant bases then you are unfortunetly topping from the bottem. You are controling the scene, and there for being Dom.

Of course there are times where if you say something it is not held offensive but if you're saying it during play then you're just killing the mood!

nilla example!

oh honey to the right... 'like this' yeah well wait left.. mmm right again.. ooh uh no dont lift my leg i cant feel anything that way... babe 'what' pull my hair... thanks. ooh thats better mm ah... oh hunny dont lift the leg remember there you go thanks...

i'm sorry but if i were a Dom or someone who didnt like trying new things oh yeah im walk out.. f that.

So maybe im thinking more on the extreem here while youre thinking more a light sense... if the person said oh dont lift my leg please and that was it... ok one thing big deal... but imagin something being said every minute or every two mins... it could get annoying and frustrating and in D/s topping from the bottom!

< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 11/25/2008 4:27:44 AM >

(in reply to sexisubi)

Post #: 32

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 4:31:50 AM

sexisubi

Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Hell no, if I am not enjoying something in the scene or I would like something else or something more, I aint waiting till the end of the scene to speak up. I am saying so right then and there if I am not enjoying it. If that's nice but in say 10 minutes maybe I'd like to be flogged, I ask.And fortunatly that is EXACTLY what Daddy wants me to do.

I think it is absolutely crazy to wait till a scene is over to speak up over something that was wrong for you or not working for you. Of course I don't put up with shit I don't like just for their sake either. IF you're the type who does then yeah you'll probably wait to speak up till play is done. Me I only play for funs sake. so I am different.

my example was not to discurrage talking during play at all, i was simply saying doing it on a constant bases can be considered annoying and in D/s topping from the bottom... not really that you can't say i want to be flogged or ooh fuck me harder! not like that at all... i mean telling them how to do -everything- (not one thing not two things but all things!) during play i think that is a bit annoying. if they are hitting you and you say hit me harder... thats not annoying hell that is kinda sexy! but to sit there and say 'I want to you to fuck me this way no not that way this way no not that way look... like this... there you go no wait now stop i want to be flogged and they stop doing you just to flog you then youre like now i want you to do this... and this.. and then this.. no not like that like this!' and you do that during the entire time.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 33

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 4:41:00 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
I don't consider that topping from the bottom, I'd consider it 'trying' to, or being 'annoying and frustrating'. Actually doing so would require the dom to follow your directives. If you're being annoying and frustrating during a scene the dom can just stop, or take steps to stop your annoying behaviour. If he can't control the scene he's allowing himself to be 'topped'. That's his choice.

agirl

correct but, lets say the Dom stops the play... and walks out...

would you say the sub was trying to top from the bottom?

I'd probably say she was making it quite clear vocally that things weren't how she liked them. It's up to the dom how he reacts to that.

If I say....''No, not there, god no. Enough master.........oh, not on my thighs, arghhhh.....don'tttttt.... don't tie my ankles too........I hate ittttt....''....

...It's not topping from the bottom, it's me expressing what I'm feeling.....there's not a chance in hell that he'll stop what he's doing just because I'm being vocal.....he'd plant a pan scourer between my flapping lips and carry on.

Some people would call it 'trying to top from the bottom' but it wouldn't be thought of that way here, no.

agirl

(in reply to sexisubi)

Post #: 34

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 4:56:24 AM

sexisubi

Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
I'd probably say she was making it quite clear vocally that things weren't how she liked them. It's up to the dom how he reacts to that.

If I say....''No, not there, god no. Enough master.........oh, not on my thighs, arghhhh.....don'tttttt.... don't tie my ankles too........I hate ittttt....''....

...It's not topping from the bottom, it's me expressing what I'm feeling.....there's not a chance in hell that he'll stop what he's doing just because I'm being vocal.....he'd plant a pan scourer between my flapping lips and carry on.

Some people would call it 'trying to top from the bottom' but it wouldn't be thought of that way here, no.

agirl

i guess it's all how it is said also, the way the relationship is set up is an importent factor also it seems. In my experience if i don't hate something but i can tolerate it i'm not saying anything, i'm going to let Them carry out their fantasy with me, and when it's my turn to be able to carry out my fantasy, i'll be more vocal. However, if it's something new that He/She thought up i'm going to sit back and focus on the things i enjoy. i might whine and beg and plead for them to untie me, i might beg to be whipped, i might be gagged because i talk too much, but i certainly am not going to push them away and say 'No not like that... You're doing it wrong! It has to be like this.' Which believe it or not is done, and when you're just starting a relationship with a Dom where He is learning about you and you are learning about Him, it's rude in my opinion if it's done forcefully.

If it is done with grace or whining/ begging/ pleading still showing that They are top, i don't think there should be a problem with it. However, if it's done with a condisending, talking like i would be talking to you in this blog, meaningless statement, and it happens on a constaint bases.. i would consider it topping from the bottom, even if the Master/Mistress stops the play changes things up tells you to shut your face whatever it is, the sub still attempted to 'top from the bottom.'

Now, i also respect that people will now disagree with me on this topic, and different strokes for different fokes i guess. However, i just feel like the term is valid and is possible, even if it doesn't fully take place and the Dom does not allow it to happen, it still happened.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 35

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 5:28:30 AM

MissIsis

Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline

Communication is essential, as being able to trust the dominant. Sometimes, these 2 things take time, but I definitely think they go hand in hand. There are 2 things that can go on when I think of topping from the bottom. In one, the submissive is trying to take control. If something is even slightly uncomfortable, & the dominant isn't doing what the submissive thinks he or she should be doing, they will tend to either call their safeword, or insist on stopping, or even try to insist on where they want the ropes tied, how hard to be spanked, exactly what toys to use & where, & the list goes on. That to me is a submissive trying to top from the bottom.

In the second, the submissive knows for a fact that the dominant doesn't know what they are doing & is putting them in some kind of danger. This could be as something like a knot pinching a nerve, or the temperature of the enema water being too hot. Is the dominant aware of the amount of heat needed to produce what type of burns? Some tops aren't. Are they doing needle play? Is the bottom aware that the needles are sterile?

And sometimes, there is a fine line between topping from the bottom & communicating safety issues. If I am going to attempt any kind of edgy play, I like to have some sort of conversation with my submissive about it before the time for me to ever do it is ever going to happen. This doesn't necessarily include when it will happen, but if I want my submissive to trust my judgment, it has to be established before I go to that place with them. And then there is past trama that sometimes doesn't come up till we are in the middle of an intense scene. I would definitely want to know about it. I feel I am empathetic enough that I would know if something was wrong, & I am not so insecure as to not stop there & deal with it. Things do come up from time to time. But if for some reason, I don't notice, I would hope my submissive would speak up. I don't consider these things topping from the bottom.

As for submissives who describe themselves as Alpha, or the ones that say they need someone to force their submission from them, I tend to stay away from them. It isn't that I don't enjoy a challenge now & then. And honestly, I enjoy intelligence in my submissives, & sometimes, even a little assertiveness, but there is a time & a place for everything. I just think that if someone is submissive, & they want to get to that place, they have to have a willingness to let go, & show that to me. At some point, I need to know they trust me enough. If they are insistant on undermining everything I try to do, I tend to assume they really are only looking for someone to feed their kinks. I am not into breaking anyone. I like spirited & strong people who enjoy their submission. If they keep trying to control the scene for reasons other than safety, be in physical or psychological, I will assume they are just not the right submissive for me.

(in reply to sexisubi)

Post #: 36

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 5:54:30 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
I'd probably say she was making it quite clear vocally that things weren't how she liked them. It's up to the dom how he reacts to that.

If I say....''No, not there, god no. Enough master.........oh, not on my thighs, arghhhh.....don'tttttt.... don't tie my ankles too........I hate ittttt....''....

...It's not topping from the bottom, it's me expressing what I'm feeling.....there's not a chance in hell that he'll stop what he's doing just because I'm being vocal.....he'd plant a pan scourer between my flapping lips and carry on.

Some people would call it 'trying to top from the bottom' but it wouldn't be thought of that way here, no.

agirl

i guess it's all how it is said also, the way the relationship is set up is an importent factor also it seems. In my experience if i don't hate something but i can tolerate it i'm not saying anything, i'm going to let Them carry out their fantasy with me, and when it's my turn to be able to carry out my fantasy, i'll be more vocal. However, if it's something new that He/She thought up i'm going to sit back and focus on the things i enjoy. i might whine and beg and plead for them to untie me, i might beg to be whipped, i might be gagged because i talk too much, but i certainly am not going to push them away and say 'No not like that... You're doing it wrong! It has to be like this.' Which believe it or not is done, and when you're just starting a relationship with a Dom where He is learning about you and you are learning about Him, it's rude in my opinion if it's done forcefully.

If it is done with grace or whining/ begging/ pleading still showing that They are top, i don't think there should be a problem with it. However, if it's done with a condisending, talking like i would be talking to you in this blog, meaningless statement, and it happens on a constaint bases.. i would consider it topping from the bottom, even if the Master/Mistress stops the play changes things up tells you to shut your face whatever it is, the sub still attempted to 'top from the bottom.'

Now, i also respect that people will now disagree with me on this topic, and different strokes for different fokes i guess. However, i just feel like the term is valid and is possible, even if it doesn't fully take place and the Dom does not allow it to happen, it still happened.

Using your example of....

'No not like that... You're doing it wrong! It has to be like this.' Which believe it or not is done, and when you're just starting a relationship with a Dom where He is learning about you and you are learning about Him, it's rude in my opinion if it's done forcefully.

...If I actually felt the need to say that, I'd be in the wrong place or with the wrong person and more fool me for placing myself there.

If I know better than whoever is 'topping me' then why would I let them 'top' me in the first place?

Plenty of people focus on the phrase because the sub isn't playing the game and 'letting' them be dom. I think it's all a bit silly.

agirl

(in reply to sexisubi)

Post #: 37

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 7:11:20 AM

mc1234

Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

As counter intuitive as it seems, many submissives are control freaks and in a power vacuum or in a chaotic situation, they exert control as a way of creating security for themselves. At the same time, a submissive, as opposed to a dominant, secretly wants to let go of that control. For some that is easier than others but it also requires that SOMEONE pick up the ball and provide direction/leadership/security. And that is where D/s relationships can run aground. If the submissive and dominant do not see or at least clearly communicate what that direction/leadership/security look like to each other and the dominant is busy creating an environment that doesn't meet the needs of the submissive (or get her buy into his vision of it) then the submissive is not going to feel safe and is going to seek out control.

That said, to me, there really is no such thing as topping from the bottom on some level. If you allow her to run things, you aren't the dominant. If you feel she is winning (ie topping in THIS context) then you don't see her as a partner. If you are worried more about who is running things than whether the two of you are happy, your focus is wrong. If you are so myopic/self centered to think that if a submissive gets something she wants that she is topping, you need to go back to GO and start over.

Lastly, if the person truly wants to submit then they do need to learn to let go of control but, as I stated above, sometimes it is simply a matter of finding a partner who just doesn't make you wet but also makes you feel safe and sadly, those two do not always come together.

Michael, thank you for the above. You just put all those jumbled thoughts runnin' round my head into a semblance of order and made sense of it for me. I've never been able to explain to myself concisely how I could be so in control yet so need to not have that control. One key component missing is the partner willing to step up to bat, so to speak. If I know that he's going to step in and fulfill a role that needs to be taken care of I can relax in my submission to him and feel safe. Great post.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 38

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 7:17:11 AM

sultryone

Posts: 46
Joined: 10/9/2008
Status: offline

Sorry to sidetrack the conversation here, but since this has happened he wont talk to me about it. He won't answer my calls, txts, msgs here on CM, or anything. This is a brand new relationship (two weeks) and I dont know if this is part of the whole game or what is going on really. At first I was ok that he needed time, but now I'm feeling upset about it and I told him, and still, no response.

Is this the way it's supossed to go? Am I topping if I want to talk about this?

Thank you,
sultry

(in reply to mc1234)

Post #: 39

RE: Topping from the bottom - 11/25/2008 7:20:46 AM

nhite

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline

THAT is amazing astute of you to recognize it!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

As counter intuitive as it seems, many submissives are control freaks and in a power vacuum or in a chaotic situation, they exert control as a way of creating security for themselves. At the same time, a submissive, as opposed to a dominant, secretly wants to let go of that control. For some that is easier than others but it also requires that SOMEONE pick up the ball and provide direction/leadership/security.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 40

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