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RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 12:17:07 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		It took me awhile to get past that hurdle. I can be a painfully slow learner.

But, now that I've got it........regardless of how yummy they look, if I know they won't fit I have to pass. Why torment myself or her.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 12:25:35 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		goodness sakes, i look away and miss all the needleplay...dammit!!!

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 12:27:59 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		That'll learn ya.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 12:46:56 PM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline 		i'm not sure if i would call myself service-oriented
i like doing things FOR him regardless of what they are. folding his laundry or oral "service" or lopping down seedlings or whatever it is, i dunno =p i reeeeally like brushing his hair. it's not that he can't do it himself, i just really like to do it. so he lets me :)
suppose im still figuring out all the little facets of what being a "sub" means to me
but if i'm doing something for him, i want to do it to the best of my ability, whatever it is that i'm doing. and that is usually what makes me happy about it, i guess. i don't feel that i need a particular "reward" for it because i like the idea of making his life nicer =p
but i don't think i would necessarily say that i'm JUST service-oriented because i like all sorts of things, service is an important part of it for me, though.
just a ramble =p hehe

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 1:04:55 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

i see something that needs to be done, and i simply do.  doesnt matter if its at work or at home.  im still lost on the ~expectation of reward~

if you mean monetary.. nope.
if you mean sexual... again no
if you mean a kind word or a smile or a "thank you".. why not?  i find it hard to believe someone who is service oriented doesnt want to at least feel their efforts are recognized.

can someone take two minutes and explain the reward aspect to me?

Okay... here's the short version.

A reward is any stimulus that makes us feel good or satisfied.  Some things are natural rewards, like food when we are hungry.  Other things are conditioned rewards, things we learn are satisfying through experience.  For example, some people find hip hop music satisfying, others can't stand it... for some it is a conditioned reward, for others it is not.

Some people find reward in performing service, this is a conditioned or learned reward.  Just doing something constructive or helpful makes them feel good about themselves... there's the reward.  In this case the reward is internalized, in otherwords nobody has to give them anything for them to feel satisfied, performing the task itself is its own reward.  Not everyone is like this, some would only perform service if they were given a reward, for example... someone who does their job just for the money, but doesn't particularly enjoy the job.  That's an example of someone doing something for an external reward (the paycheck).  Usually the difference is simply experience... in one case past experience taught an individual to find performing service rewarding, in the later case the person's past experience did not teach them this.


just to add to this....

External rewards have in general a deminishing return to them.  For example... today you are rewarded with pay to your job.  You recieve a raise and are all happy and content. In time you find that the reward is less significant and you begin to want that raise again.  In time, you might find that the standard raise will be an inadequate amount as well. 

Internal rewards are by far the most effective long-term motivating force for people.  You can cultivate internal rewards within a person... but it is not easy.  Secondly... as another note... external rewards actually can damage internal rewards.  It is not a wise thing to external reward someone that generally has internal rewards for those behaviors.  It's very much like killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.


I agree with both of you and the same goes for external punishments as well. Both are short sighted and provide correction to only one single incident, sometimes at the expense of the whole. I decided awhile back that I was going to more or less do away with both and focus on the bigger picture, rather than sole incidents. Hence, the question isn't so much "How do I fix this issue?", but rather "How do I help a new potential partner internalize their role and take responsibility for doing their part in the relationship without external influence from me?"

It's kind of like having a leak in your motor oil. You can keep pouring bottle after bottle of motor oil into the engine to keep it running while the leak possibly gets bigger and worse or you can take the time and fix the leak.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 1:12:18 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline 		Actually your version is kinda like getting the car to fix it's own leak without you personally turning a wrench. Bad analogy  I think but I get what you mean :>

When you say external help from you..you are speaking of physical rewards or punishments and not verbal?(as in verbal support and so on) If that's the case, I wonder how you would go about helping someone without so much as a verbal or physical push.

edited: I think I'm caught up on the word external as I see every thing we do to help another as coming from the outside, in.

< Message edited by Icarys -- 11/25/2008 1:16:04 PM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 1:29:20 PM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Most subs are some mix of those types, with a prevalence towards one or the other.


Gasp ! I've finally figured out exactly what type of sub i am.....
 
A ;    Harleywashcooksexgreasemonkeyblowjobspankmefloorwaxerdishwashersubmissive.....with reasonable secretarial skills.

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The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 1:30:12 PM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Most subs are some mix of those types, with a prevalence towards one or the other.


Gasp ! I've finally figured out exactly what type of sub i am.....
 
A ;    Harleywashcooksexgreasemonkeyblowjobspankmefloorwaxerdishwashersubmissive.....with reasonable secretarial skills.

HAHA! that is positively gnarly :D

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 1:31:28 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Most subs are some mix of those types, with a prevalence towards one or the other.


Gasp ! I've finally figured out exactly what type of sub i am.....
 
A ;    Harleywashcooksexgreasemonkeyblowjobspankmefloorwaxerdishwashersubmissive.....with reasonable secretarial skills.

You don't do windows?


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 1:32:27 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

You don't do windows?

Nobody's perfect.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 1:34:19 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

You don't do windows?

Nobody's perfect.

If she doesn't it would really blow it for me. (no pun intended)
For those who have trouble following others.
Harleywashcooksexgreasemonkeyblowjobspankmefloorwaxerdishwashersubmissive.....with reasonable secretarial skills.


< Message edited by Icarys -- 11/25/2008 1:39:15 PM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 1:43:48 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline 		Ahhh well..you try and you die lol.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 1:52:34 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Actually your version is kinda like getting the car to fix it's own leak without you personally turning a wrench. Bad analogy  I think but I get what you mean :>

When you say external help from you..you are speaking of physical rewards or punishments and not verbal?(as in verbal support and so on) If that's the case, I wonder how you would go about helping someone without so much as a verbal or physical push.

edited: I think I'm caught up on the word external as I see every thing we do to help another as coming from the outside, in


I think you should reread my post, because how you got that, I have no idea.

I never said I didn't implore verbal or physical pushes, but rather what I choose to do and how I act is with the goal of internalizing a role and responsibility rather than simply correcting a behavior.

If the end result of verbal rewards or physical punishment is the they only do the action in order to receive the reward or avoid the punishment, then the end result is that both have to be constantly applied to keep the behavior consistent.

I don't particurlary like dealing with a person who drags their feet and does a half ass job with a chore they are only doing less I beat them with a belt. I much rather have some in my relationship who does it for an internal reward of being pleasing and useful to me or does it because it's their responsibility as part of their role in my relationship.

I'm more partial to using a method of correction that doesn't simply provide a fix to the surface issue, but rather helps bring about internal speculation and relevation regarding their own place in the relationship and the negative effects their behavior is causing on me and the relationship in general.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 1:58:02 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

I'm more partial to using a method of correction that doesn't simply provide a fix to the surface issue, but rather helps bring about internal speculation and relevation regarding their own place in the relationship and the negative effects their behavior is causing on me and the relationship in general.


(When you say external help from you..you are speaking of physical rewards or punishments and not verbal?)

That's what the question mark was for..I was trying to understand what you meant by it all..Anyway..

Would you mind expanding on the bold text.

< Message edited by Icarys -- 11/25/2008 2:00:28 PM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 2:16:28 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		MR

Glad to see youre settled in and back with us.

i do have one question about your post and didnt want to bring the whole thing down here...

Do you really find that you have to spend all that much time "helping" your partner internalize her role? Is it that she was vanilla and youre trying to teach her?...or is this just a general idea and not specific to present day circumstance.

thanks
perse

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 2:39:35 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		wow, you people sure typed alot while i was at work.. lol

god help me, i read every post, some made alot of sense.. some left me with more questions

i love to clean... for others... for myself?  eh, it could look like a bomb went off, and i wouldnt care.  i like the smile my work produced when he walked in the door.  i liked feeling he had the time to do other things after a hard day at work (often 12 hours or more) and could actually relax and simply enjoy. i enter a man's home with the expectation that i am the submissive, and its my job to cook, clean, laundry, ect.  i dont expect payment.. even of a sexual nature.  maybe because i was raised that way.  my father rarely heaped anything on me, even praise.  so i worked hard at what little i could do, as in chores and such, to gain those small words of praise from him.  i still recall vividly at 14 literally slaving over a big family dinner, working 5 hours on it with only verbal help from my mother.  the family came in, we all sat to eat.  not a scrap of food was left over, and my father leaned back and sad... "not bad".. got up and left the table, my brothers in tow.  as i cleaned the table, my tears started... i had worked so hard.. wanted him to see the job i had done.  my mother smiled at me and said.... "look at your beautiful meal, not a bite left over,  if it wasnt a damn good meal, they would have left it and went out to eat" (god bless my mom because they would have!)

to this day, i will still work as hard to please.  does that make me service oriented as opposed to pleasure oriented?  i dont think so... i love pleasure as well.  i can sit at his feet, by his side, or on his cock and be just as happy... well.. the later... maybe a tiny bit happier.. but then i am getting something directly too.

all this talk of pushing square pegs into round holes can also run the risk of making some feel inferior to others, setting up a belief system that just doesnt hold up to every submissive and their "styles"

if i must lable myself... then i lable myself as a submissive giver... period.. i love to give... i dont accept graciously as often i dont know how.  i love to give things, time, energy, affection... these things i have yet learned how to accept as something i am "due".  instead i find them leaving me embarrassed and at a loss for words.

its really funny... all i want to do is give everything i can to someone who understands how to appreciate what i give and accepts it with a graciousness and a willingness to accept them.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 3:18:41 PM   
Aszhrae


Posts: 1030
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline 		Of all the services girl enjoys other than cooking, is giving a bath and a massage afterwards. Girl doesn't care if it requires scouring the city for a particular type of bath salt or searching everywhere for one particular type of bathing or massage oil. It's worth the effort. Even playing the part of nurse and doing everything that is required of me in service, girl is right there, treating someone as if they had no arms and legs.
They could do it themselves for sure, but to serve in that aspect is just one of my greatest pleasures.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 4:03:08 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
f you are pretty much like most of us that has this component as a part of your make-up, why would you need to make such a declaration?

First off, I want to thank Erin for starting and having THE best topic I've seen in quite awhile. 

Secondly, for me service is part of being a good person, orientation is irrelevant.  So I don't equate the two.  You can be a submissive and have absolutely no desire or orientation to really serve another.  It's about authority, not service.  Therefore, creating a specific heading for service oriented types is perfectly sensible for me.

Finally, a source of friction sometimes occurs when people don't "see" service the same way.  There's a chick locally who will regularly whine about there not being much focus on service, or any service specific social groups around (which I don't quite get- we're supposed to take time away from serving to sit around and yak about serving?).  While I can sit at an event and see one person filling drinks, one person taking out the trash, one person opening doors, one person taking coats and bags, one person taking down names for attendance, one person making announcements in ten minutes and somehow she'll go on later about how there really isn't much service going on?  So I think some people think of service only in the flower grandiose "rubbing my hair on your boots" way and others just take it in stride.  That can make a difference.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 4:04:11 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Fast Reply~

I've often seen Dommes state that they are looking for service oriented submissives. Many of them further define that as someone who is not looking to have their sexual fantasies fulfilled. Do dommes use this term differently???

No, they just tend to have to be a little more "blunt"

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Service Oriented Submissive - 11/25/2008 7:47:16 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

MR

Glad to see youre settled in and back with us.

i do have one question about your post and didnt want to bring the whole thing down here...

Do you really find that you have to spend all that much time "helping" your partner internalize her role? Is it that she was vanilla and youre trying to teach her?...or is this just a general idea and not specific to present day circumstance.

thanks
perse


It's a general idea and one pragmatically formed by the fact that I deal mostly with young girls with minds of their own and an indepedent streak who are relatively new to all this.

But regardless, I've found focusing on the element of "Look, this is your part in your relationship. This is what you do to make things work. Look how bad things are because of your behavior. Look how great things could be if we correct this." to be the most effective approach for me in whatever way I decide to handle a particular situation and individual.





_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 140
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