RE: To Flip or Not to Flip

RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (Full Version)

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Focus50 -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/25/2005 2:09:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 I just can't get past the part of how she has any choice at all when bound.... Focus I get the point of having a choice- when you're going to do a predicament bondage or sort of scene- give them a choice between one thing that you hate and another thing. Do you push the needles in deeper OR do you make the other girl scream by leaning forward? That I get. But I didn't see a clear choice here, or any directive at all. There's no conequences, just a blank situation. I quite like "predicament bondage" which allows a certain amount of movement or choice but, in this scenario, if she's gonna be bound in such a way as to be able to access the switch, then I don't understand the point of the bondage.... lol Focus.

duckssinthewind -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/25/2005 5:54:11 PM)
i figure wires slip, fuses blow, i have 4 1/2 minutes to pray! Then i flip.

veronicaofML -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/25/2005 6:54:50 PM)
what do i do? ask him if he is outta his friggen head holy shit batman...aint no way

MHOO314 -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/26/2005 5:36:28 AM)
Let Me reverse the question, the wires are connected to your c*** and balls-- Flip or not flip?

plantlady64 -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/26/2005 6:18:56 AM)
Hello There, I see a lot of people that claim to have no limits with their Master or Dom. The example set here shows that those are only words in most of the relationships. I see show how few really live the words they let come out of their mouths. It's like there are no limits as long as the Dom/Master doesn't do something you don't like or want to participate in, and does what you want and expect. I say if you've submitted your will over to a Dom/Master and have trust it should be easy to trust your Master knowing they wouldn't do anything that would cause you to die. For me I'm my Masters slave and I would flip the switch. I'd actually want to flip the switch to see what he actually wanted me to feel knowing it would not be the voltage from the wall. I know with all my being my Master loves me, and will never cause me intentional permanent harm. My Master's been a practicing sadist for over 25 years. My Master has the privledge of having me under his will & doing his bidding 24/7. This little test would not have changed that for us. I am his good girl who loves and trusts him in all things. SIncerely, sub suzanne

redheadedfire4u -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/26/2005 6:20:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists It is important to consider that we in relationships are always making this same choice... flip the switch or not. We are faced with considerations of Trust over Risk all the time. Trust V Risk .... Trust over Risk ... Risk ... Trust ... quote: We often claim that trust is the most important aspect of the relationships in D/s, so why is it that the trust wasn't enough to flip the switch. ?? How long would it take for me to trust someone enough to flip, ?? ??How important is it that He can trust in me enough to expect me to flip?? ??To trust enough that I can believe without question that He will not hurt me that it is perfectly safe to flip?? ??Faith enough in Him that he has not messed it up and that what is meant to be harmless truely is?? All honesty I would not be able to say whether I would or not till I was actually faced with the situation... Even if it is my Lord, the holder of my heart ... I would like to think I would not do it, but trust is so important to me that there is a chance I would, just to prove to myself that I am capable of such trust in annother... that annother is actually deserving of such trust ... 5 mins to decide whether or not I still carry to much baggage from the past to take the leap of faith ... or whether I leap because I am trying to loose the baggage and not thinking with logic but only with fear of being unworthy ... But does He expect me not to flip, will he see such an act as lacking thought, lack of due care or of self worth, would He see me as less because I flipped ... my god I hope I am never in this particular mind fuck ... Thanks KoM for giving me so much to think about from just one small post ... warm smiles to all

sweetpettjenny -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/26/2005 12:45:42 PM)
Id flip it , because i know he wouldn't do anything to harm me. Its all about trust !!

SusanofO -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/26/2005 3:08:04 PM)
I just got 'round to reading this one, and really appreciated the topic. Pro-Flip: I think I'd love to be in a position where I'd say I'd "Do the Flip". The level of trust doing that would require from me is what I'd strive for. I would not mind exploring things I hadn't tried yet if that is what would make my partner happy, at least, not more electrical play, (it's not a hard limit for me). I originally took for granted when first reading this thread that any Dom-Master would know what he was doing was enough not to seriously hurt me - and am so glad the point was brought out later in the thread that there really needs to be a way for the sub-slave to check out just how much experience a partner has with electrical play Before ANY play takes place - that would be the case for me. How Would I know:How would I do that? I'd communicate with them for a few weeks (its situational I think depending on the demands on each person's time) to get a feel for how much they'd done this in real life and ask general questions first of them about it (they'd know I've done next to none). I would also do some reading and research of my own on what they were mentioning (just because I am curious and just because I want to verify what I might be getting into). And:I would have someone to contact for a safecall (I do have a vanilla friend who knows I am interested in this life in my own town I could call. I would ask them to call me and also ask someone from the national safecall network I've read about (am sure the phone number is ona thread here somewhere and could find it. if not, I will find someone to ask). I would call both these two safe-callees there a few days ahead to make Sure one or both would be calling me in the room before things got started, (I'm there ahead of time, after all, he isn't there yet. I also have a cell phone I could use). Yes I'd Want It: I do know I would be completely trusting with the right person. Am Becoming More Aware of This and it's a good thing:The danger for me personally, though, is that sometimes I want to trust so much, and can be so friendly (I like people, I just like people) and it all sounds fascinating. The trust it might require, (even if it had to "deepen" for me to try something) well, I can picture this being what would make it so Good for me (and hopefully for the other person, too). I'd actually relish having to "stretch" if it was something I maybe didn't think I wanted originally, (I am a pretty curious person). I would want to let my partner know I would "go the extra mile" for them. I would. I know I would. These Boards Are So Good to Read: In fact, I was thinking about this earlier this week. I read a lot of other people's comments on these boards. I am (or try to be) cognizant of the fact there is a live human being behind the screen, and take for granted other people do the same. Later something they said sometimes just becomes more clear as far as how it fits onto my own life, (even if it was not a long missive). Due to how short time is for me sometimes, my "get to know people" method for now;even though I get mail, and try hard to answer it). Something somebody says will make something in my life all become so much more clear as far as how I'd handle this or that (because I go and think about it). Just a teensy thought - something for me to ponder: This is not bragging or anything akin to that, nor am I inviting anyone to mess with my head by stating, and mean this in the most literal way). I was thinking, this quality of wanting to be trusting: This might make it difficult for someone to even DO a Mindfu_ on me because I can get pretty attuned to someone else as well as myself and it can be "if they're happy, I'm happy." So then what could happen is - If They thought something was a Mindfu_ , I would forgive them because I care about them and wouldn't want them to "fail". Is that ridiculous? (rhetorical Q) I don't think that takes all the fun out of it. Am sure they could very well still surprise me (I am new, but this weird thought did cross the wild plain of my mind). I guess I'd have to really know them well, and they, me. I am glad i am aware and this topic brought me to some more self-awareness (plus some comments I read last week people made on these boards). Aftercare: If I needed it, it would Have to be there (if I needed it and it wasn't, well that Would be a Mindfu_, I guess). I would want to be held and for somebody to not just say "well, go journal about it." I would want to fall alseep in their arms. It is part of what makes me feel safe. I would want them to talk to me or find out if I wanted to talk (but if they were tired, I'd leave them alone). Sidenote: Boy do people have to know eachother well, yet still be willing to take a risk. They have to talk or one has got to be able to read the other so well, they just know what eachother is thinking almost (sounds like that meaningful a connection is something I would strive for). Setting the Mood:I can really really get caught up in imagining what may or may not take place. As long as I trusted whoever the Dom-Master is, I'd have asked before-hand, maybe about being able to light a few candles around the room (hope it would be darkened) to create a mood, and soft music might be playing on a CD in the room (unless this would prevent us both being attuned somehow to our levels of excitement. I don't think I'd want a blind-fold. If it was a first-time experience I would probably Not pay for the room (sorry). Safety and Not Losing Myself Completely: I have this little teensy voice - buried deep inside my head, though, that I am hoping will always be there, no matter how devoted I may become to someone. It tells me when to STOP. It can fade and recede, but is it always there on some level. Maybe it's the part that would make me cry during the experience (if I did, or laugh, but not AT anyone, of course. I think laughing might completely kill the mood). That Still Small Voice: But if it gets to feel SOOO intense I am thinking I just Can't do anymore, I just know I am hoping that voice will always be there, and know I have to do what I can to keep it alive. I know I can blend the voice with the desire to please, but if the desire to please is ever stronger than the voice, the other person I would have to know and trust, would be able to pick up that that is what is happening. Yes it does require taking a risk. I know I can have not much problem taking a risk sometimes (that is part of what scares me about myself). I know that all might sound disconnected, but this thread topic really got me to think, and it's mostly internal rambling (just online. I may start a journal, it might be useful). Hope everyone had a happy holiday. "Hope Is the thing With feathers, that perches in the soul - And sings the tune without the words, and never stops at all."- Emily Dickinson

MadameDahlia -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/27/2005 3:28:39 AM)
Everyone is entitled to their own choices... whether good or bad... whether safe or insane... whether I agree with them or not. For some, this kind of play is a real rush. When they find someone they trust enough to do this sort of thing with and they establish trust in each other I wish them well and hope for the best. For others, it's not a rush. It's something quite unwanted. When two people decide against this type of play, favoring flogging or spanking instead I hope that it satisfies them both for a very long time. All that said, I would not be interested in doing this sort of thing with anyone I own. They would have put their faith in me to keep them safe from harm and injury. They would have given me their minds and bodies in the hopes that I would keep both safe. And I can't see using scare tactics as something fun or beneficial - even if only for the duration of a scene. I see it as being mean spirited. I see it as being reckless - especially if someone's phobia was involved. Exposure to something that someone's terribly afraid of could help them conquer their fear. On the other hand, it could exacerbate the fear to the point of no return. I don't want someone who fears being struck by lightning to suddenly fear touching anything electric. I don't want someone with mild claustrophobia to suddenly fear any small space because the emotions brought on by a mindfuck were too intense - too damaging. For some it may be liberating. For some it may be beneficial. For some it may be fun. For me it's a hard limit. I have no desire to have my fears used against me, even in jest or to be funny - and would not wish to subject anyone I cared for to theirs.

KnightofMists -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/27/2005 9:02:50 AM)
I remember the first time I did knife play on alandra.... for some knife play has abit of fear associated with it and if the Top pushes it alittle it can be used and played with in a scene. Well I love knife play.... I will cut with the knife and not just run the blade along the skin. Anyways, the first time I used the Knife on alandra ... She yawned lol. OK I said "this looks like fun for you" ... She simple responded..."My Lord, you can do whatever you want... but I know you will never intential harm me...." So really the knife or whatever I use has never been able to generate in any fear with in her. Now it could be that it is alot to do with trust. Thou this maybe a factor, I also tend to think that it's alandra's strong ability to manage her fears. So even when she is feeling fear... she is able to manage it and it is only a very intense situation that would push her to a point of not being able to manage fear. As a note... only once has alandra experienced fear in a scene. I was playing her blind folded... had her tied to a suspended post and blindfolded. I was playing her using different things and then i suddenly stopped. I was quite and said nothing. After a bit of time she called out..."My Lord" after another bit of time she called out again... "My Lord are you Ok" this was very rewarding.... her concern wasn't that I was disappointed her and stop playing.. it was immediately focused on my well-being. Her Fear is largely generated from the concern she has of those she loves. Because of the play, we both see it better. In how, she loves for her children as well as for myself and kyra. In the scene in particular, alandra moved around until she was able to remove her blindfold and see me smiling at her. Of course she broke down in tears.. thinking she had disappointed me. In fact she made me very proud... thru aftercare we both came away feeling better of each other. Me understanding her better and even her understanding herself better. She is one strong woman not easily push out of her ability to manage her emotions. Doing these types of plays are not for the feign of heart or even for very many relationships at all. Some love them... some don't. But to me any play is a validation of trust that is there. Going beyond the trust that is in the relationship would be detremental to the relationship. Knowing your relationship is very important, it is a wonderful thing not only to think that you trust each other... but to feel it as well.

SusanofO -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/27/2005 2:34:18 PM)
Yes. I appreciate that this To Flip or Not to Flip is topic thread and relating it to managing fear. Compassion in how people respond to someone's situation, that eases fears; I appreciate the response that reinforces that having some fear may be normal, but that overcoming it may be gradual and-or sudden, depending on the closeness of the relationship (and in a committed partnership, I know that is what I see people strive for, and the Master-Dom has the responsibilty to protect it, and one has to trust that). I do think sub-slaves have a responsibilty to think about what they can and cannot tolerate, and how much is too much (or how little is not satisfying). Master-Doms maybe have to strive for knowing what they can tolerate themselves (and take that into consideration and listen to sub-slaves during a committed realtionship). I know Masters might push limits, (and know the ideal is that they are going to be careful about pushing any they really, really know will endanger the emotional welfare of their sub-slave in their committed relationships. I know they do this as communication develops between them, and that is very important (whether it is illustrated in subtle ways or more overtly). In the relationship with my husband, I notice little things, subtle things, clues that tell me what he is maybe feeling and what he can and can't tolerate emotionally. I pay attention to that (and it is comforting to see others do as well). I think sometimes maybe I think about what I don't want somone else to try to have to tolerate, before I think about what I can tolerate (and that is one reason I know I am "submissive" - got asked that question last week - but that's a whole other thread on here, and I am going to read that, even though I know I am. It might be enlightening for me). I know I value consideration of another's tolerance of potential for emotional harm, (above that of any question of how it might be physically inflicted on me). I take for granted a Master-Dom knows how much their partner can take, but base this on how much I value communcation (and committment, such as you have with alandra and Kyra, a relationship in which someone has a partner(s). I think some people can communicate without saying much; some are quiet and some are not. Even though my time-line is longer than others here might have for developing one, reading these threads is reinforcing for me that I think "growing" one may boil down to someone's willingness (and time) to "read" someone else. I know there is another thread on Managing Fears; I am going to read that soon. This week is going to have so much packed into it and these topics I find relevant to my understanding. I am hoping I can check in and out this week to read and relate. I think I need to really go through my profile again (a goal for the next 2 weeks)and think about down-sizing my Loves, likes, tolerates, etc. list. It needs revision and the whole profile needs work (which may or may not have much to do with this thread - but it did because it reminded me of that, (which is a very good thing). Cheers and happy week-before-New-Year. A whole new year coming up! Peace and goodwill to you and yours. - Susan

caitlyn -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/27/2005 2:59:17 PM)
I don't think this has anything to do with a "no limits" relationship dynamic. From reading this board, I find that to be a card played more to convince one's own self of their commitment to this, than for any other reason. It is easy to be "no limits" with someone you trust implicitly ... as a matter of fact you really do have a limit, in that you are limiting yourself to someone you trust. KnightofMist illustrated as much in his candid comments concerning knife play and his submissive. I would probably flip the switch, after spending five minutes destroying myself about why this was happening to me, and what I did to merit this. Assuming I lived through it, that would end the relationship.

fastlane -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/27/2005 3:10:56 PM)
If I was a sub...I'd ask for a blindfold and a ciggarette....and kiss my ass goodbye!

IrishMist -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/27/2005 5:09:04 PM)
Ok, I am having a hard time understanding why this would be a relationship breaker for most? Seriously.

KnightofMists -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/27/2005 5:14:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist Ok, I am having a hard time understanding why this would be a relationship breaker for most? Seriously. I guess it depends on how you look at it.... I can see if one is in scene that is beyond the trust level that is established... it will and can result in a violations of trust.... it is a pretty tough thing to deal with if one or both feel trust is violated

IrishMist -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/27/2005 5:39:52 PM)
quote: I guess it depends on how you look at it.... I can see if one is in scene that is beyond the trust level that is established... it will and can result in a violations of trust.... it is a pretty tough thing to deal with if one or both feel trust is violated _____________________________ Knight of Mists Ok, so it comes down to how much trust one would have in a casual play partner vs a lifelong play partner? I really am having a hard time with this one lol. I remember the first time a knife was used on me...I had a terrible fear of them, and I mean terrible...and it was well known...I was blindfolded, tied, and then felt the knife...I went into a screaming fit ( I was not gagged, though he probably wishes that he had gagged me )...the terror that I felt that first time...but it never broke the trust that I had in him...it strenghtened it.

KnightofMists -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/27/2005 5:59:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist Ok, so it comes down to how much trust one would have in a casual play partner vs a lifelong play partner? I really am having a hard time with this one lol. I remember the first time a knife was used on me...I had a terrible fear of them, and I mean terrible...and it was well known...I was blindfolded, tied, and then felt the knife...I went into a screaming fit ( I was not gagged, though he probably wishes that he had gagged me )...the terror that I felt that first time...but it never broke the trust that I had in him...it strenghtened it. Well I wouldn't automatically state that a lifelong play partner will necessarily have a greater level of trust than a casual play partner. It is reasonable to assume it would be the case.... but not a fact of life. It is actually experiences (and variety of experiences) that validate and build trust and not neccessarily the time one is in a relationship. Then obviously our trust of your Top outweighted your Fear of the knife. It might not bring your fear of the knife either.... but it is a fear you can manage better because of the experience. Sharing in facing that fear of yours with the Top would of course strengthing the trust. It was not the bringer of the fear... He was your champion against it! It was when the Top becomes the bringer of the Fear... and not your champion that relationships will suffer.

IrishMist -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/27/2005 6:21:43 PM)
quote: It was when the Top becomes the bringer of the Fear... and not your champion that relationships will suffer. DOH....Lightbulb goes on LMAO I understand now lol

Nendarye -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/27/2005 6:54:06 PM)
quote: It was when the Top becomes the bringer of the Fear... and not your champion that relationships will suffer. Quite right. It all comes down to how fear is managed and balanced with trust.

nonuts4thshoney -> RE: To Flip or Not to Flip (12/27/2005 8:30:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fastlane If I was a sub...I'd ask for a blindfold and a ciggarette....and kiss my ass goodbye! LMAO!!! i'd do the same thing and i don't even smoke!! LOL!!

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