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H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/26/2008 9:08:21 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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we need to get this bill out of committee and into law- or said another way, dump the illegal fed!   isnt it astounding that we have to legislate to fix this???   even when exec order 11110 did this?this is my reply from elected congress

================================
Dear Roger,   Thank you for message regarding H.R. 2755, the Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act.  Hearing from the people of northeast and central Pennsylvania is an integral part of my job in Congress.  I appreciate you taking the time to contact me.    Like many Americans, I am concerned about the current state of our financial markets.  As you may be aware, I voted against the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act, which passed the U.S. House of Representatives on October 3, 2008, 263 to 171.  I also voted against a similar financial bailout package, H.R. 3997, on September 29th.  My reasons for voting against this package are rooted in a deep concern with the provisions of the underlying plan.  I could not, in good conscience, vote to burden our hardworking tax payers with hundreds of billions of dollars in new debt to finance a massive Wall Street bailout.  I was disappointed that we did not take more time to examine alternatives that would give greater protections to homeowners and provide more oversight of Wall Street.   The Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act was introduced on June 15, 2007.  This legislation proposes to repeal the Federal Reserve Act and abolish the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and each Federal Reserve bank.  Currently the bill is being reviewed by the House Committee on Financial Services.  I will be sure to keep your concerns in mind if this legislation reaches the House floor for a full vote.    Thank you again for contacting me.  As always, please feel free to share your concerns with my staff.    
Sincerely,

Christopher P. Carney
Member of Congress/ snip
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/26/2008 9:15:07 AM   
Musicmystery


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This is ridiculous.

First, as it has been passed into law, for several decades, it's not illegal.

Second, every nation needs a Central Bank. If you want to eliminate it, what do you propose in its place?

Frankly, good monetary policy has been the backbone of U.S. financial stability since the stagflation crisis of the 70s. It still is, as the roots of the current crisis are rooted in poor oversight of fiscal policy.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/26/2008 9:16:59 AM >

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/26/2008 8:20:27 PM   
Termyn8or


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Hunky, lemme try to splain it to you. We can't. It is that simple. To really get back into a non-fiat currency for a country with a viable economy, minimal debt and low unemployment would be a burden to say the least. Take a look around, our economy is not the picture of health. The effect would be like shooting a Man in the chest while he is gasping for breath. If you really want to abolish the fed, and I agree that it was the wrong decision to establish it way back then, but we are stuck until we can create the wealth needed to pay this deficit down to a reasonable level and get back on track rather than just paying interest.

If you can do that we can talk about abolishing the fed, that entails near full employment and good jobs. So many good jobs that even fast food places have to pay more than minimum wage. Get that done and I will be happy to carry a sack of gold coins around instead of a wallet full of plastic and paper.

Things are the way they are, and at this time abolishing the fed is not the proper course of action. We are stuck with it, and if we are not careful our currency will become toilet paper in other countries. We can no longer manufacture our own goods, even the necessities, and I have some comments on our workforce to come later in another thread.

It can't happen, and let me add hunky, IIRC you are retired or something ? Abolish the fed and I bet you abolish the check, along with many others'.

So think long and hard about endorsing such a radical plan. Radical plans are, in a way, romantic, alluring, provocative. I am not fooled anymore. Any attraction to these things must be tempered with moderate thought. Perhaps still a long term goal, but not in the short term, no way.

T

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/26/2008 8:43:15 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


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I have a radical plan to demolish a ham tomorrow. then I'll get around to fixing this problem with minimal loss of life. er...minimal loss of pastrami and cheese. 

_____________________________

when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like nails

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”

Genghis Khan

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/26/2008 9:34:56 PM   
khalya


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The problem with the Fed, is that it isn't a government-owned bank. It is a private bank, that is interested in profit more than anything else. I think that the government should take over the Federal Reserve, and put money in the hands of the people. I also think that people who want to run the Federal Reserve be elected officials, rather than appointed officials.

(in reply to rexrgisformidoni)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/26/2008 9:49:40 PM   
Musicmystery


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Oh good grief.

The Fed exists by Act of Congress to manage monetary policy and oversee the banking system. It is a federal agency, not a private bank. It is set up to run somewhat independently in order to minimize political influence.

(in reply to khalya)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/26/2008 9:54:36 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: khalya

The problem with the Fed, is that it isn't a government-owned bank. It is a private bank, that is interested in profit more than anything else. I think that the government should take over the Federal Reserve, and put money in the hands of the people. I also think that people who want to run the Federal Reserve be elected officials, rather than appointed officials.


And from such a young one. Maybe there's hope for this country yet.

(in reply to khalya)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/26/2008 10:56:40 PM   
Termyn8or


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Mus, it is actually private. But that is not the point. The point is even to put the money supply under direct control of congress, what good would that do us ?

As a fully bipartisan government basher like me, you surely see why they made it at least semi-autonomous, to insulate it from the "winds" of political change. Congress knew how they were, direct control simply invites too much abuse.

T

(in reply to subfever)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/26/2008 11:56:13 PM   
subfever


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http://www.collarchat.com/m_2305465/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#2306691

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/27/2008 5:42:00 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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I dont think you guys graps this.   Today,  I am assessing you $1 for the shoes you are wearing. Pay the $1 or no shoes.

you might say, you already own your shoes...so you refuse to pay.    paypal me the dollar today.  I will be your federal reserve.   The govt coins money, under the constitution.

I think you better get fully educated on this issue NOW.

I own your shoes, paypal me or else!    If you own your shoes then pay yourself.    now subsitute curency into this formula and the private corporation that does this

(in reply to subfever)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/27/2008 6:32:07 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Oh good grief.

The Fed exists by Act of Congress to manage monetary policy and oversee the banking system. It is a federal agency, not a private bank. It is set up to run somewhat independently in order to minimize political influence.

The federal reserve is a PRIVATE bank, was formed via Senate bill written off-shore by anonymous actors such as Warburg, Rockefeller, Frederick Roosevelt, (FDR's uncle, family bankers all) Morgan et al. It was unconsitituionally formed and directly as a result and to the benefit of these bankers.

Apparently I must remind you kinkroids what we have failed to learn from our founding fathers:

What was the single driving issue that caused Americans to revolt against the king ?

"We were not allowed by the crown to operate a free and honest money system." Ben Franklin (they were forced to borrow currency from the bank of England) We are now and have been borrowing our currency from the fed and interest is paid through the treasury and is what necessitated the creation of an income tax. 16th amendment (federal income tax) also was not constitutionally passed and codified.

"You know my feelings against setting up a federal banking system and turning paper into money, for if we do that, we will forever be slave to the speculators." John Adams circa 1820's in a letter to a friend.

"The power to issue currency is more dangerous to any country than all of the world's standing armies. " Thomas Jefferson circa 1800. 

(Suits filed under the FOI act to discover Fed ownership have been curiously turned down by the courts under yet another ruse [lie] of national security)

"Your experiment in the corporation is the end of your experiment in democracy" Thomas Jefferson 1803

Our economy did just fine from the 1790's and by many estimates suffered approx. 17% inflation over 120 years until 1913 when the FED bill came to the senate. The fed was formed under the ruse (lie) that we needed it to provide stability in markets and minimize inflation.

On those, the fed has been an abject failure as we have had since...1000% inflation and anything but stability in markets.

The whole enterprise confirmed 'capitalism' and the capitalists control of the currency which has turned every variety of paper into money and made trillions in profits via speculation and inflation since.

People, the above is the basis of capitalism which is 'paperism.' When the paper fails these capitalists quickly become socialists looking for a handout from the taxpayer.

For those who refuse to look at our financial history...the capitalist has you right where he wants you, pliant and paying...through the nose. 


(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/27/2008 6:48:28 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Hunky, lemme try to splain it to you. We can't. It is that simple. To really get back into a non-fiat currency for a country with a viable economy, minimal debt and low unemployment would be a burden to say the least. Take a look around, our economy is not the picture of health. The effect would be like shooting a Man in the chest while he is gasping for breath. If you really want to abolish the fed, and I agree that it was the wrong decision to establish it way back then, but we are stuck until we can create the wealth needed to pay this deficit down to a reasonable level and get back on track rather than just paying interest.

If you can do that we can talk about abolishing the fed, that entails near full employment and good jobs. So many good jobs that even fast food places have to pay more than minimum wage. Get that done and I will be happy to carry a sack of gold coins around instead of a wallet full of plastic and paper.

Things are the way they are, and at this time abolishing the fed is not the proper course of action. We are stuck with it, and if we are not careful our currency will become toilet paper in other countries. We can no longer manufacture our own goods, even the necessities, and I have some comments on our workforce to come later in another thread.

It can't happen, and let me add hunky, IIRC you are retired or something ? Abolish the fed and I bet you abolish the check, along with many others'.

So think long and hard about endorsing such a radical plan. Radical plans are, in a way, romantic, alluring, provocative. I am not fooled anymore. Any attraction to these things must be tempered with moderate thought. Perhaps still a long term goal, but not in the short term, no way.

T


I will take your $1 for you using your shows paypal me   [email protected]

Absolute BULL Term.

A stroke of a pen could cancel the quadrillions $ direrivatives.   It is that simple.  contrary to what we are told- the world would go on, find it balance and do well.

there IS precendent for the state filing bankruptsy. check your history.

like it or not, agree with me or not, we are going there anyway.

from the breaking point there is 1 of only 2 ways to go.

1. re-establish US soviegnty, and skip the fed

or 2.  become globalized like argentina.

this is the big one my friend.  this is why we left the British empire.

i suspect Germany has a clue on this and many are indeed looking to the US to cut our ball and chain so as they can do so also.

it is them (globalists) or civilization.   think i am kidding?  lets ask katrina.  lets ask iraq.  lets ask 11 bail outs. lets ask 2.3 trillion missing.

get real.  the fillings in your teeth are at this hour being extracted.     the hand has penetrated your body and your organs are ripe for harvesting!!!!

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/27/2008 6:52:45 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Our economy did just fine from the 1790's and by many estimates suffered approx. 17% inflation over 120 years until 1913 when the FED bill came to the senate. The fed was formed under the ruse (lie) that we needed it to provide stability in markets and minimize inflation.


Not exactly a rosy ride--

from the U.S. History Encyclopedia:

"Founded in 1781, the nation's first bank, the Bank of North America, was possibly the first central bank. Certainly, the first Bank of the United States (1791–1811), serving as fiscal agent and regulator of the currency as well as doing a commercial banking business, was a central bank in its day. So too was the second Bank of the United States (1816–1836). It performed that function badly between 1817 and 1820, but improved between 1825 and 1826. The Independent Treasury System, which existed between 1840 and 1841 and between 1846 and 1921, was in no sense a central bank. A great fault of the National Banking System (1863–1913) was its lack of a central bank. The idea, and even the name, was politically taboo, which helps explain the form and name taken by the Federal Reserve System.

"The faults of the National Banking System, especially perversely elastic bank notes—the paradox of dispersed legal reserves that were unhappily drawn as if by a magnet to finance stock speculation in New York—and the lack of a central bank to deal with the panics of 1873, 1884, 1893, and 1907, pointed out the need for reform. After the 1907 panic, a foreign central banker called the United States "a great financial nuisance." J. P. Morgan was the hero of the panic, saving the nation as if he were a one-man central bank. However, in doing this, he showed that he had more financial power than it seemed safe for one man to possess in a democracy. The 1912 Pujo Money Trust investigation further underlined his control over all kinds of banks. (Congressman Arsene Pujo, who became chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee in 1911, obtained authorization from Congress to investigate the money trust, an investigation highlighted by the sensational interrogation of Morgan.) Meanwhile, the Aldrich-Vreeland Currency Act of 30 May 1908 provided machinery to handle any near-term crisis and created the National Monetary Commission to investigate foreign banking systems and suggest reforms. In 1911, Republican Sen. Nelson Aldrich proposed a National Reserve Association that consisted of a central bank, fifteen branches, and a top board controlled by the nation's leading bankers, which critics said J. P. Morgan, in turn, dominated. The proposal never passed, and the Democrats won the 1912 election. They accepted the groundwork done by Aldrich and others, but President Woodrow Wilson insisted that the nation's president choose the top board of this quasi-public institution. Democratic Rep. Carter Glass pushed the bill through Congress."

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/27/2008 6:53:47 AM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/27/2008 7:00:34 AM   
pahunkboy


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Music,

the ubber rich thru their cohorts create criseses so as to then bail out the crises and then the public owes the ubber rich toil for a very long time.

I dont think you caught on the the tactics and lengths these men go to.

if money was real- it would be gold and silver.   
that is historically real.

paper is...in effect, paper.

digital money, is even worse... as you cant burn it for heat once it is worthless...

think of todays money as frequuent shopper points.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/27/2008 7:07:07 AM   
Termyn8or


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OK hunky, you borrowed ten grand to buy silver as a hedge against inflation, but silver has gone down. If you know about the fed you should know about the UCC. I am excercising my option to accelerate at will, and you must pay back the money now. You have five days to come up with it or you are in default. That means negative equity in your house and none of your cards work anymore.

Well that's what happens to the country if the fed is abolished. Like I said in a healthy economy with low debt and a decent sustainable GDP it would be a hard hit for the government to come up with that figurative ten grand. Right now there is no money in the mattress. The crops have died and the factory burned down.

T

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/27/2008 7:20:16 AM   
Musicmystery


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~FR~

Let's clarify one other persistent point.

The Fed is "a private bank" only in the strictest of interpretations. First, unlike any true private bank, it's purpose is not to earn profit, as it can simply create money, usually through open market operations, but also through printing currency (not the same as money). It's shareholders for each of the twelve districts are the national banks in that district (they are required to do so). Yet these shareholders don't run the Fed; instead, the Fed oversees their operations, sets reserve requirements, sets interest rates among them.

It is, in short, a federal agency. It operates independently, unlike other federal agencies. But to insist that it's some private institution reaping profits for investors is incorrect.

I hope that helps.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/27/2008 7:28:34 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

if money was real- it would be gold and silver.   
that is historically real.

paper is...in effect, paper.



Gold and silver have no more inherent value than the paper in your wallet.

It's only value is that which we place on it.

Could just as well be beads and clamshells.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/27/2008 7:43:03 AM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Our economy did just fine from the 1790's and by many estimates suffered approx. 17% inflation over 120 years until 1913 when the FED bill came to the senate. The fed was formed under the ruse (lie) that we needed it to provide stability in markets and minimize inflation.


Not exactly a rosy ride--


Yes, not a rosey ride at all and most if not every attempt to have a 'National' bank or 'US Bank' under Andrew Jackson (our first and last libertarian Pres.) was corrupt. Lending to friends only or charging higher interest to enemies including insider and self-dealing.

My problem with these bland renditions of history is the actual cause of the so-called panics just as in this so-called panic today.

The bank 'panic' of 1907 for instance was caused deliberately by Morgan who was THE man in the financial world and the big banker of his time.

In an interview on the NY Times Morgan told the world there is a NY bank that may be insolvent. Notice the ambiguity...A bank that MAY be insolvent. He never said any particular bank WAS insolvent...why ?

So the next day 10,000 people are in the street making a real run on the banks. ALL BY DESIGN so Morgan and Co. could 'save' eveything on and then buy up what they wanted for pennies on the dollar.

But this accomplished one big start to 'their' control. It knocked 5000 PRIVATE banks...out of business. How convenient.

Come 1929, and the fed having TRIPLED the money supply created all manor of inflation and speculation again PLUS the 24 HOUR margin call. Remember the roaring 20's ? What did this do ?

It created financial terms to the benefit of the lenders on margin calls to call it due in 24 HOURS. They did BEFORE and in fact precipitated the stock market crash in Oct.

NOTICE: Rockefeller, Morgan, Rothchilds and Warburgs, Dupont and Carnegie (had manipulated USSteel stock) et all...got OUT of the market BEFORE Oct. 29.

Mission accomplished...people out of work in poverty and another 16,000 PRIVATE banks...out of business. Now the fed and its beneficiaries had what they wanted...PRIVATE ownership of ALL of the banking in this country under the false claim of a 'Federal' banking (Reserve) Orwellian before their time.

1907 to create a panic to justify the fed and 1929 to take advantage. Both panics created whole cloth out of thin air...just like today.

Fast forward to FDR and in a blatently unconsititutional act by executive order 6102 in 1933,  http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html 

The feds forced a taking of everbody's gold at their price. Now the bankers had the whole economy under their thumbs...and us too.



(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/27/2008 7:50:31 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

if money was real- it would be gold and silver.   
that is historically real.

paper is...in effect, paper.



Gold and silver have no more inherent value than the paper in your wallet.

It's only value is that which we place on it.

Could just as well be beads and clamshells.

But a truly free market in gold and silver would have the price what technicians call 'sensitive' to how it would affect the value of currency...the dollar.

Without the actual leveling effect, currencies would be all over the map...so private ownership of gold had to go and at their price and now the paper money supply would by itself determine that value...hence 1000% inflation since.

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: H.R2755, Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - 11/27/2008 8:05:13 AM   
Termyn8or


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Mus, the fed is for profit. If you don't believe me just try to find out how much their budget is, under the federal government budget. They and the US postal service stand alone as being self sufficient. Or at least they used to. The coast guard has made alot of money selling siezed assets so they might be included in that.

It is almost a moot point. Even if I came up with the fed's incorporation papers from Delaware (got the IRS's), they could be wiped out just as they were created, by the stroke of a pen.

I have long advocated the abolishion of the fed, but reality is that this is simply not the right time in history to do it. Observe the following steps first :

1. Reduce the population to a reasonable level.
2. Bring back enough industry for those who remain to have a seller's market on labor.
3. Pay off most of the national debt.
4. Increase that percentage of the GDP that is privately fueled to what is publicly funded.
5. Make sure most Citizens have significant equity in their properties.
6. Make sure most Citizens have a healthy savings level.
7. Reduce imports of all kinds drastically.
8. Abolish the fed by stroke of pen and still piss alot of people off.
9. Wait twenty years for the people to stop hating you.

Hunky, that'll be your job. Better get started.

T

(in reply to rulemylife)
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