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Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:08:42 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		This is about personal perspective, how each of you defines a word and what it means to you in a specific context.  The word is "vulnerability" and I have a particular context in mind.  Often in various discussions on these forae that word is used regarding dominants, and often with the suggestion that a dominant should be vulnerable or able to be vulnerable.  I find this intriguing so here is my question to you, consider it and answer it however your own ideas and thoughts dictate.

What does the phrase or concept of "vulnerability in a dominant" mean to you?  What do you think that is or would be?  Do you think its something a dominant should or should not be, and if so why or why not?

I'll be watching with interest.

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer
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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:19:18 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		"Should" a Dominant be vulnerable?  Well, that's a value judgment that everyone has to make for themselves.  So I don't think the question is pertinent enough for me to hypothesize about whether or not it's a desireable quality or not.
 
As to what "vulnerability in a Dominant" means to me, I suppose I don't distinguish that from vulnerability in any other human being.  Anyone that's vulnerable can be "hurt" (define that anyway you like), and I think it's obvious that Dominants can be hurt in as many ways as anyone else.
 
Being Dominant does not imbue us with some sort of force shield. 
 
John

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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:22:11 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		i want to see a certain vulnerability in a dominant...in that i want to see the human side of all that position he holds. i want to see that if a mistake in judgement was made that it was examined and addressed and corrected....but not denied.
It takes a bit of humility to say, i was wrong and this is what we are going to do to fix this.
Wouldnt even mind a brainstorming session at that point as well...i was wrong, and we need to fix this....any suggestions?...discussion commences.

i would like to see the vulnerable side in many ways...being touched by something emotionally and being able to express that in a healthy way...not the chest-thumping grunting...me caveman, me have no emotions sort of act. The ability to access your emotional side without losing your own sense of self is a sign of strength to me but sometimes mistakenly interpreted as weakness by others...usually the dominant himself....and its incorrect.

i remember once seeing my father holding one of our kittens and talking to her in a cute widdle babyvoice about how much he wuved her and how cute she was....when he saw me there, he very nearly threw the kitten to the ground in an attempt to put as much distance between himself and the offending feline....i chuckled, which is uncharacteristic of an 8 yr old...but i did chuckle and roll my eyes and continued on my way to the kitchen...even at 8 i could see that he was a human after all...so i like to see the "softer underbelly" when it pleases him to display it....reminds me that in the end, we are all right here on the same plane.

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And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:23:30 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

What does the phrase or concept of "vulnerability in a dominant" mean to you?

Means the erstwhile dominant is, of all things, a human being.

Most people wish they could not (or would not) get hurt.  Most people get hurt anyway.

Everyone has their "vulnerabilities".


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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:26:47 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Yes it is a value judgement... its also subjective and therefore personal.  I asked my question, not to seek objective definitions or dictionary quotes... I can obtain those easily enough.  No, what I find interesting is what this concept means to individuals.  What it is they are attempting to communicate with it.  For those who believe a dominant should be "vulnerable"... what purpose would that serve?

Edited to add...
To Rover and CL... clearly dominants, being human, can be hurt... obviously, prick us and do we not bleed?  This is a fact easily established... but, I suspect there is something else at work here and that is what intrigues me.  Some seem to want to see the dominant "bleed".

Perse... your reply is exactly the sort of response I had hoped for, thank you.  I hope to see more like it, regardless of how each defines it or whether they agree with it or not.  Its the personal perspectives that I find most useful.

< Message edited by Padriag -- 11/30/2008 6:32:03 PM >

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:28:33 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

What does the phrase or concept of "vulnerability in a dominant" mean to you?  What do you think that is or would be?  Do you think its something a dominant should or should not be, and if so why or why not?




Everyone is vulnerable; not all are willing to show or expose their vulnerability. Some view being vulnerable as weak or lacking discipline/control. I suppose there is a balance, and where that balance lies depends on the person and his/her partner.

When I think of vulnerable in a healthy sense, I think fallible, human, compassionate and feeling. I admit I do enjoy seeing a certain strength and demeanor in a dominant that leaves the person appearing less vulnerable than myself. Whether this is fair or not is debatable. It's something I continue to ponder.

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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:30:43 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Padriag, I think you kind of read My mind there a bit.  A very similar question came to Me as I was reading another thread.

I can't speak for any general group.  I can only talk about Myself.  As we've talked about before, I do show My vulnerability, probably more than many out there.  It's something I've dealt a lot with in the last year and an area that I have more work to do.  For Myself, I do happen to think that it is something I should be if for no other reason it keeps Me and those in My life more connected with My humanity.   I don't want to be someone who can't be touched on the inside or have to live with this persona that nothing ever affects Me.  I do experience pain.  I have experienced loss.  Why would I not allow the people who are supposed to be closest to Me in life to be exposed to this?  It's who I really am. 

If that doesn't answer your question, check the sig line.


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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:32:17 PM   
sexisubi


Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline 		Leave it to Padriag to give me a brain teaser... not like it is hard! To be honest i am always bad at reading ones mind so i'll just spill my own and see what comes out. ^.^

ps i feel a vulnerable Dom is someone who doesnt always use force it's the heartful conversations, someone who allows you to come in instead of slamming the door to his mind so you can better understand him as you begin to better understand yourself. someone who grows with you and learns.. some who becomes vulnerable or shows more of their thoughts would be my feelings below.

is a Dom not human? In any relationship is it not importent to except them for who they are and stick with them through the good times and the bad times? i say that there are going to be times where a Dom might have to crack open his or her shell to say how much they care, or to show the submissive a part of themselves to help teach them a lesson in life or to show them why something had to be done. Does this mean my perception of them has been broken? of course not! does this mean they have become weak? absolutly not. It might even bring us closer together because they were able to connect with me on a personal way. The best part about a D/s relationship to me is the connection, you are now one... no one is better then the other... roles are filled and met, problems occur and you can fight them together. Now perhaps my perception of vunerable is different from yours or others but that is my quick run down of how i feel about the subject... if you wanted to define vunerable.. well the answer might have changed.


< Message edited by sexisubi -- 11/30/2008 6:38:22 PM >

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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:33:21 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		A dominant who cant (or wont) show any vulnerability just appears to me as hard, unfeeling, uncaring. 
Almost a recipe to be seen as a player cause if he's too hard, too tough, how will I know my value? 


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The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:36:25 PM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		One of the most touching things my Master ever told me is that he wished that he would have handled a particular vanilla situation differently.  I loved seeing that he does not handle everything perfectly and could feel remorse over a choice.  The fact that he shared it with me was, in my eyes, showing vulnerability.  This made him a much greater man in my eyes. 




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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:36:39 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Vulnerability, to me, means opening yourself to being hurt by another person.  Everyone is vulnerable.  Some people put up walls to avoid the intimacy that opens them up to the opportunity to be vulnerable.  But this is where trust is given and learned.
 
Whether or not someone "should" be anything is not for me to say. 
 
For me, building a relationship with another human being, a friend or a lover, requires trust, which comes about through intimacy and vulnerability.  The level of intimacy varies depending on the person and the relationship, but the people I love, who also love me, know me well and they know me as a complete human being, vulnerabilities and all.

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:36:50 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

This is about personal perspective, how each of you defines a word and what it means to you in a specific context.  The word is "vulnerability" and I have a particular context in mind.  Often in various discussions on these forae that word is used regarding dominants, and often with the suggestion that a dominant should be vulnerable or able to be vulnerable.  I find this intriguing so here is my question to you, consider it and answer it however your own ideas and thoughts dictate.

What does the phrase or concept of "vulnerability in a dominant" mean to you?  What do you think that is or would be?  Do you think its something a dominant should or should not be, and if so why or why not?

I'll be watching with interest.

It means to me that your allowing yourself to be a human being. It's being okay with opening yourself so that you may share of yourself with others regardless of what the outcomes are.

I find that more than a few idealize what a Dominant is to them..They say they want a Man first but when you are that Man with all of the good and the faults that make up a person, they typically can't handle it.(Two cents)


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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:44:18 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Vulnerable to me is placing myself in a position where someone could hurt me, see me or know me.  Until I am vulnerable no one can do any of these things.  It is a must in my involvement even with just friends.  I am not afraid of it, but I would be afraid of not being vulnerable.

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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:46:24 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Exposed....... that's it at base. I think that is what it is ...... being exposed to harm or attack.

I don't think there's a should OR a should not; I DO think there's a *best not* between my owner and me, though.

He might be as vulnerable as a freshly lain egg but I don't care to hear about it.

I'm not his source of support and strength but he IS mine. I didn't sign up for that but he did.

agirl

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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:51:04 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		If anyone has directions for the construction and maintenance of the Dominant Force Shield, let me know, mmmmkay?  I will totally give you the credit.

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[page 23 girl]



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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 6:57:19 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		Not sure how to explain this, but something happens when I'm securely attached to a D: I begin to mirror them or channel their energies or something like that.  If I'm with an asshole dom, I become very much the asshole.  Or, more precisely, those asshole parts of me that are typically in the background are brought to the foreground.   Maybe its a modeling process.  Sometimes, I think of it in terms of influence.  I don't know exactly how to conceptualize it, but, for me, that process is how the D/s bond operates. 

I can't say weather or not a D should be vulnerable.  But, if he's vulnerable, so am I.  If he's emotionally available, so am I. The more sensitive he is, the more sensitive I get.  Et fuckingcetera.

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“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 7:01:43 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Means emotionally available to me, someone who can be intimate and therefore can be hurt should the one they love break it off. There's a lot written about how a dom shouldn't ever be able to be hurt by the breakup of a relationship, that wanting the relationship to continue removes a portion of control and power.

So what? I'd rather have what I do have, a man who much prefers giving up some measure of total control because what he gets in return is worth so much more; love, friendship, comfort when needed, etc. I'm not interested in someone who would just as soon not have me around as have me around, someone who just doesn't care and who is willing to toss away a relationship come the first snag.

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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 7:04:51 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

If anyone has directions for the construction and maintenance of the Dominant Force Shield, let me know, mmmmkay?  I will totally give you the credit.


Having finally shed the title of "Ice Princess" about 5 years ago, I can totally help you with it.  But I promise you, it's an empty and unfulfilling adventure.

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 7:04:51 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Depends on the context.

I believe a person (orientation is irrelevant) should not lie out of fear.  Therefore they should not pretend to not be vulnerable, or put on a facade of "hardness" as a distraction from the reality of their vulnerability because they are afraid or insecure.

One should not take offense at someone choosing not to be vulnerable or open or soft with them- but lying and covering up due to fear, that's a real relationship killer, no matter what form it takes.

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Vulnerable Dominants - 11/30/2008 7:07:32 PM   
sblady


Posts: 433
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		I doubt if I could ever be with a Dominant who didn't show a vulnerable side.   It may be wonderful to have the idea of a "Terminator Dom".  But in reality, it would be a difficult way to live.

Perhaps some think vulnerable is a sign of weakness...I think it shows the ability to be human.

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Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. Dalai Lama





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