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Online and Real Time - 12/2/2008 9:34:56 PM

porcelain26

Posts: 181
Joined: 11/16/2007
Status: offline

I realize this topic has probably been discussed ad nauseum...but in recent posts I've been following, it seem there is a reoccuring theme.

What I've noticed is a great many people stating in various forms that online relationships can't be as strong or as deep as r/t relationships. I've seen several statements to the effect of "Well since you haven't met him in person, it really doesn't matter" or, "If you haven't met this person, why are you worried about this?", etc. This is incredibly disturbing to me. Not only because of the harsh way some of these comments have been made, but because of the obvious judgement going along with them.

I suppose I have a soft spot for online relationships because I've got experience with them, namely in the form of my current Owner, whom I've belonged to for over 10 years. We have spent time together r/t, but the majority of our relationship has been constructed online. However, it doesn't feel any differently to me being in contact with Him online than it does being in contact with Him r/t....in other words, I feel just as owned by Him right now, 900 miles away from Him, as I do when I'm at His feet.

So....here is my query for all those wishing to respond. What, in your opinion or experience, makes an online relationship less valid than a r/t relationship?

Post #: 1

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/2/2008 9:49:39 PM

pnut8377

Posts: 33
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelain26

I realize this topic has probably been discussed ad nauseum...but in recent posts I've been following, it seem there is a reoccuring theme.

What I've noticed is a great many people stating in various forms that online relationships can't be as strong or as deep as r/t relationships. I've seen several statements to the effect of "Well since you haven't met him in person, it really doesn't matter" or, "If you haven't met this person, why are you worried about this?", etc. This is incredibly disturbing to me. Not only because of the harsh way some of these comments have been made, but because of the obvious judgement going along with them.

I suppose I have a soft spot for online relationships because I've got experience with them, namely in the form of my current Owner, whom I've belonged to for over 10 years. We have spent time together r/t, but the majority of our relationship has been constructed online. However, it doesn't feel any differently to me being in contact with Him online than it does being in contact with Him r/t....in other words, I feel just as owned by Him right now, 900 miles away from Him, as I do when I'm at His feet.

So....here is my query for all those wishing to respond. What, in your opinion or experience, makes an online relationship less valid than a r/t relationship?

_____________________________

Never take someone for granted
Hold every person close to your heart
because you might wake up one day
and realize you've lost a diamond
while you were to busy collecting stones....

(in reply to porcelain26)

Post #: 2

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/2/2008 9:55:36 PM

moonvine

Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline

This is just me speaking for myself but

a. I have found too many online people are not what they seem. Although I do have online only friendships that have stood the test of time (one in particular has lasted 10 years) I find that to be the exception rather than the rule. And I haven't met him, so even though I have known him for 10 years, while I have known my BFF for about a year, my relationship with my BFF is much stronger than that of my online friend, because we can go visit each other, go to lunch together, etc. I keep Coke for her at my house and she keeps diet Coke for me at her house, even though it makes her vomit to drink it. I take her to the doctor when she needs to go and she takes me when I need to go. If I go out of town she comes and takes care of my cats, and vice versa. My online friendship is...an online friendship. If I ever happen to get to Boston we will probably have dinner, same if he ever gets to Austin.

b. I have a high need for impact play and physical closeness in general. Someone 900 miles away can't spank me every day. Someone 900 miles away can't hold me and let me cry on their shoulder when my cats die. I can call people and cry into the phone and that helps some, but it isn't the same. Likewise if I get sick someone 900 miles away isn't going to be able to go out in the middle of the night and get me meds. And I can't do any of these things for someone 900 miles away. For that matter before you have met them you can't be sure they even are who they say they are. But if there are online relationships that are meeting people's needs then I say more power to those people. They just don't meet mine.

(in reply to porcelain26)

Post #: 3

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/2/2008 9:55:46 PM

ExKat

Posts: 300
Joined: 8/25/2008
Status: offline

For me, too often have I experienced some chemistry online to find none whatsoever in person. Therefore, I don't trust that chemistry online is what it seems. You can be totally diggin' someone's online persona, and then they turn out to be crap in real life. Unless that real-time meeting has occured, an online relationship is a bit of a dream-bits of fantasy melded with bits of reality.

Killing trolls online doesn't make you a warrior in real-life. You can have swung 1,000 make-believe floggers or buckled on 1,000 make-believe collars, but that doesn't mean you have experience, in my eyes.

Undoubtedly, there's something to be learned from interacting online, but it seems like a farce to me. To some people, online relationships are fulfilling and it make them happy. ::shrugs:: I'm a physical person, and a snuggle will make me feel better when endless teary e-mails wouldn't, and I tend to take things very, very literally. As such, 'playing' online is kind of a silly prospect to me particularly. "I skillfully carress your ivory skin," turns me on about as much as, "I skillfully unlock your wooden back-door to steal your valuables when you're on vacation" frightens me. I've never been very good at play-acting, and entering into a relationship leaves me so vulnurable that I'm unwilling to do it lightly.

It doesn't help that there are never really any stories of online relationships that end happily. For an online relationship to end happily, it has to transform into a real-life relationship. Then, it's no longer an "online relationship", in my eyes. It's quite easy for them to end horribly, however, and we see that in the forums all the time.

< Message edited by ExKat -- 12/2/2008 9:58:02 PM >

_____________________________

~*~ The amalgam of Exquemelin and Katie978~*~
In the forums, it'll usually be Katie you're speaking to.
testing
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(in reply to porcelain26)

Post #: 4

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/2/2008 10:02:03 PM

moonvine

Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExKat

For me, too often have I experienced some chemistry online to find none whatsoever in person. Therefore, I don't trust that chemistry online is what it seems. You can be totally diggin' someone's online persona, and then they turn out to be crap in real life. Unless that real-time meeting has occured, an online relationship is a bit of a dream-bits of fantasy melded with bits of reality.

The opposite is often the case as well. I used to have a very good friend that I worked with - we were very very close - I had just moved here and he always made sure I had enough money for groceries and etc (I always paid him back) but they way he came off online was totally different than the way he came off in person. If I had met him first online I probably never would have talked to him again, and that would have been my loss.

(in reply to ExKat)

Post #: 5

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/2/2008 10:15:05 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~

For me, there is a difference between a long-distence relationship that starts online and an online relationship. Mainly being that the former has actually meet each other. I don't take relationships very seriously when the people haven't physically met yet. Perhaps that is a flaw on my part but I don't take any relationship seriously at first - there are so many ways for a relationship to go wrong and for people to fall apart that until you've at least crossed the barrier of physically meeting it's just not serious to me.

Which isn't to say I'm a complete cynic when it comes to love, romance and relationships. I believe that deep and meaningful relationships can start online and work despite strong odds if the people involved are willing to put in the work.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ExKat)

Post #: 6

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/2/2008 10:26:08 PM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExKat

For me, too often have I experienced some chemistry online to find none whatsoever in person. Therefore, I don't trust that chemistry online is what it seems. You can be totally diggin' someone's online persona, and then they turn out to be crap in real life. Unless that real-time meeting has occured, an online relationship is a bit of a dream-bits of fantasy melded with bits of reality.

The opposite is often the case as well. I used to have a very good friend that I worked with - we were very very close - I had just moved here and he always made sure I had enough money for groceries and etc (I always paid him back) but they way he came off online was totally different than the way he came off in person. If I had met him first online I probably never would have talked to him again, and that would have been my loss.

Wow...i thought it was just me.
my favorite playpartner comes off a tad bit...dense online. In person hes phenomenal...but if he had contacted me online, i would have blocked him in the first 5 minutes.

As to online vs. realtime
im a realtime girl. i dont think i could maintain the kind of discipline it takes to keep an LDR together no matter what the means of communication are...i dont consider a phone conversation to be a date. i dont phone or cyber or cam...so id be a complete and total waste of time online.
i dont discount your relationship at all, p, i do however wonder what motivates you to have the relationship that you have....i am not questioning your feelings for your master, but i am curious to hear your perspective on online relationships....would you have another if the one youre in ended?

Thank you
perse

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to moonvine)

Post #: 7

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/2/2008 10:44:35 PM

porcelain26

Posts: 181
Joined: 11/16/2007
Status: offline

Persephonee -

To answer your question...no, I wouldn't do this again. No way, no how. The fact of the matter is that the relationship I'm in is incredibly difficult, for a multitude of reasons, that are unfortunately magnified by the fact that I'm not with Him on a regular basis. I fully admit that there are times when I cry, whine, beg, plead, and do all but walk the 900+ miles barefoot to get time with Him.

As for my motivations to continue with my relationship, there are several...many of which are just too personal to discuss in public...but the fact of the matter is that I have never met or been with another person who makes me feel the way my Owner does. I've never met anyone else I've been able to submit to the way I can to Him, I've never met anyone I can open up to the way I do with Him, and I've never met anyone who understands me the way that He does. I'm not saying it's not possible, just that it hasn't happened, and I'm not about to leave the most incredible person I've ever been with in the HOPE that I might find someone just as wonderful. I'm simply not willing to risk loosing Him. Other motivations include the fact that I'm planning to move to the east coast next winter for work, and I'll be about 8hrs away from Him vs. the 25hrs I am now....that's definately a bright spot on the horizon.

In terms of my perspective on online relationships, I can see both sides of the argument. I know far too many people who are convinced after a month of talking with someone online that they've found the love of their life, the dom of their dreams, and then they are absolutely crushed three days later when the dream lover mysteriously disappears. There are a lot of fakes out there, a lot of scammers, and my story is diffenately a rare exception to the general rule that online just doens't work. However, because my relationship is pretty much all online at this point (once again, I have actually spent time with my Owner in real life), I also understand the angst, excitement, and deep emotional connection that some people do find in online relationships. I was with my Owner for 3.5 years before meeting Him r/t...I challenge anyone to try and convince me that my relationship with Him wasn't "real" up until that intial meeting, because I promise you it was...maybe not for you, or joe-blow-down-the-street, but for me and for Him it was. And that's really all that matters.

My whole point in starting this thread was that I wanted people to discuss why they felt that an online relationship was not as valid as a real time one. Not why they think r/t is better, or why they think online is stupid...but why one relationship deserves more respect and care than the other. My feeling is that it doesn't. I don't care if someone has been "owned online for 18 wonderful days and now he hasn't IM'd me for 3 days and I'm scared" or if someone "Was collared r/t 18 days ago and my Owner hasn't returned my phone call for 3 days and I'm scared"....the feelings are the same, the fears are the same, and the emotion behind those feelings are the same. I just think they need to be treated with equal curtesy and respect. Just because someone is involved in a relationship that you may or may not find fulfilling for you, doesn't mean you can't be compassionate and thoughtful. I see nothing at all wrong with pointing out red flags, advising someone to leave manipulative or potentially dangerous situations, or giving advice about the subject in question; but I don't think anyone has the right to pick apart another persons relationship simply because in your world, it (the online relationship) can't possibly be as important/strong/valid/whatever as another form of relationship (the real time relationship) would be.

*edited cuz I can't spell and needed to add in some missing words

< Message edited by porcelain26 -- 12/2/2008 10:50:35 PM >

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 8

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/2/2008 11:37:30 PM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

porcelain...
The answer to your question as i understand it to be is this....your relationship is valid and real to you and that is all that matters in the end. If you are asking why people feel the need to be rude or dismissive of your online relationship...the answer is that people are sometimes rude and dismissive. A person reacts to things based on their own personal experiences and so if they are less than mannerly in their opinion of your relationship, you should take it with a grain of salt and not let it get under your skin...good luck with that and when you do it successfully, please send me instructions on how to do it.

i get told all the time that my relationships arent valid...that i am not a submissive because i have not been collared and i play with more than one person. i get judged and criticised all the time. i just cant allow that to affect the way i handle my life.

Out of curiosity, what prompted this post? Is it a rant because somewhere else someone criticised you? If thats the case, let me know who they are and ill convene the local chapter of the pussy posse and take care of a little business....you just let me know what you need, love.

perse

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to porcelain26)

Post #: 9

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/2/2008 11:38:18 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelain26

I suppose I have a soft spot for online relationships because I've got experience with them, namely in the form of my current Owner, whom I've belonged to for over 10 years. We have spent time together r/t, but the majority of our relationship has been constructed online.

And that's the difference... you HAVE actually spent face-to-face time. When people say an "online relationship", it usually means they've never met.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to porcelain26)

Post #: 10

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/2/2008 11:50:04 PM

porcelain26

Posts: 181
Joined: 11/16/2007
Status: offline

Persephonee -

No, not a rant at all, and actually, no one has made any kind of negative comment about my relationship...well, people have but it was in regards to me telling them I wasn't interested, and not here on the forums *grins* I've just been following several different threads recently where the OP's have been absolutely torn apart because their relationships were online relationships and those commenting made it very clear that in their opinions, the OP's concern's were unimportant because the relationship wasn't r/t. I just think that's flat out mean. And because I have experience with this, and because I can see both sides of the situation, I wanted to open up a place where people could actually discuss the WHY behind their opinions.

By the way, I totally appreciate the implied threat....that's just awesome *GRIN*

Cali - I understand that a lot of people don't have a 'problem' seeing my relationship as being "real" because I've been with my Owner r/t...but that's beside the point for me. My relationship FEELS real to me, and that's what matters. So if someone else's relationship FEELS real to them, regardless of whether it's online or r/t, doesn't that count for anything?

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 11

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/2/2008 11:58:06 PM

Usako

Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline

The why behind my opinion is having wasted far to much time with online drama relations. Whether met in person or not, it all burns up and turns to dust in the end. Now, the flip side is real time relationships do the exact same thing, only difference is at least a real time one you got some hugs, cuddles, and perhaps sex out of it. Online? Some cyber? Phone sex? Opening up your heart to someone and not getting the satisfaction of sleeping in their arms or actually crying on their shoulder instead of some pillow wishing they were there. Too much pain for such little reward.

An online relationship that can't turn face to face real time at some point would drive me crazy and it has in the past. If people want to do it then whatever makes them happy, but my view will always be negative and cynical. But on the bright side, I think that way for most relationships so I don't solely hate on online, I don't hold much faith for real time relationships either. Those fail too, but ya get a few more kicks out of them.

(in reply to porcelain26)

Post #: 12

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 12:00:13 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

Sure the relationship can feel real, even if they've never met. It's easy to get caught up in the face that people put forward online. If that's all they want, then fine for them. If you're happy with that, fine.

The problem comes when they put face-to-face-relationship expectations onto a relationship that consists only of online and/or phone.

Someone you've never met stops calling? I have a hard time taking that as seriously as the man that sees you twice a week, when he stops calling.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to porcelain26)

Post #: 13

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 12:04:13 AM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I believe an online relationship is as valid as the two people make it. The relationship itself determines whether it is valid or not, not the fact that it is online or in person. I think a lot of attitude is out there because most of us have seen the online relationships have a higher percentage of those who don't make their online relationship valid. Thus the attitudes. Just how I see it.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to Usako)

Post #: 14

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 12:08:34 AM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

i think that peoples feelings should be validated as a baseline...and while i really dont think that *i* can have a successful online or long distance relationship, i hope that i have never actually just discounted anothers feelings simply based on whether they were online vs. realtime...but my gut feeling is that i have. im going to have to watch that about myself because i wouldnt want to invalidate a person that im discussing anything with....so this has been a headsup for me.

Usako proves my statement to be true NOT that she was rude or dismissive...but that she has an opinion based on her own personal experience and is drawing on that in order to answer your question.

And just so you know....the pussy posse is real...the threat was not implied...we are a force to be reckoned with....unfortunately we cant start fighting injustice until we come up with a choreographed dance move...i decided that we needed a signature dance to go along with our pink tees and hotpants uniform....and since neither of us can choreograph...or dance...and since there are only 2 official members, we are at a standstill at the present time....if you know someone that can help, please let us know. we are also accepting applications for new members....but i must warn you that the initiation process is stringent and harsh to weed out the weaklings.

perse
President of the pussyposse

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to Usako)

Post #: 15

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 12:16:58 AM

porcelain26

Posts: 181
Joined: 11/16/2007
Status: offline

I'm not trying to single anyone out by any means, and I'm really not trying to be confrontational. But I admit that I find it very rude and disrespectful when someone's feelings are discounted simply because another person doesn't agree with their relationship choice. And I think as a community of people involved in unconventional relationships, it's really sad to see that sort of judgement. I'm not saying that anyone needs to agree with online relationships or adopt the opinion that they are super-fantastic or any such thing. Just posing a question to try and make people think. And naturally, I'm playing the Devil's Advocate...hello...Owned by Satan Incarnate *GRINS* But in all honesty, I could just as easily argue the opposite view point as well.

Also, I would like an application to join the Pussy Posse, please. I can't choregraph, and I can't dance, but I can kick low and run like hell with the best of em!

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 16

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 12:28:29 AM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

oooo...kicking low is a good skill
when i was in the 8th grade i broke my wrist in violin class because Laura Cimino was picking on me and i went to kick her and she just grabbed my foot and pushed me over backward onto my left arm....
wait, that story doesnt exactly inspire confidence in my posse ablities...and wont strike fear in the hearts of all the evildoers....hmmm...ill have to stop telling that story.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to porcelain26)

Post #: 17

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 1:06:08 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

There are several "love languages", as shared in a book, The Five Languages of Love. These are: quality talk, quality time, acts of service, physical affection (including sex) and gifts. Most people feel that quality time, quality talk and acts of service must be in person...and it's obvious that physical affection must be in person. So, there's a four out of five chance that online relationships will be inferior to real time relationships for these people.

Other people, such as yourself, feel that there are other, non-physical ways of giving quality talk, quality time and acts of service. These people will be more apt to be satisfied by an online or long distance relationship. However, it's been my observation that there are less of these people than the former.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to porcelain26)

Post #: 18

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 5:35:06 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I don't view your relationship as an online one simply because you do meet when you can. That means you know he is who he said he was; age, gender, height, weight etc. It also means you know that it does work for you viscerally.

When you haven't ever met someone, nor have plans to, then you aren't in a relationship with a real person. Instead you are in a relationship with a construct in your own mind. Until you do meet you have overinvested yourself. If that weren't true then it wouldn't matter if you did finally meet to discover he was actually barely 18, 5'3" and 300 lbs. Or that she was a he. Because these things do matter, and if you discovered the person you were cybering with wasn't the person they represented themselves to be, you wouldn't care about ending the relationship.

It's important to us to be in a relationship with the kind of person we seek. So it does matter that if we're heterosexual to discover that the cybersex/play has been done with someone of the same sex, not opposite.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 19

RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 6:02:33 AM

mc1234

Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline

When I first started out here on CM I had a couple of rather intense online 'relationships' ... and found that they are kind of like a house of cards. One little crack and boom, it all crashes down. I think that comes from not truly knowing the person - and I really don't think you can know someone fully until you meet face to face and share a cuppa tea. I've met quite a few guys that while there was online chemistry and even on-phone chemistry, when actually meeting one another, it fizzled. I've had the opposite experience also, but much more rarely.

I've gotten much better at being able to focus and weed out online chemistry versus what may be true chemistry in person. And once I moved into a RT relationship, I saw what I was missing in only chatting online and saw what I really needed. I wonder sometimes if those people who are online and never plan to meet aren't missing out on something.

(in reply to porcelain26)

Post #: 20

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