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ORIGINAL: MadAxeman
Maybe they would benefit from a Fintendo?

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ORIGINAL: MadAxeman
And a Plaicetation for the little ones.

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ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

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ORIGINAL: Aneirin
I am not talking about the furries, but how different are we from animals, I mean we have art, cinema, sport, literature and philosophy, we are supposedly civilised, but are we really that different from animals ?

Primitive people could be likened to animals, albeit human animals, because they lack civility, but is our civility just a mask for the animal beneath ?

I finally got around to taking a peek at this thread, and I'm going to answer without looking at the rest of it.

First - who determines and/or judges civilization?  The winners - ie, those who manage through various means to overcome/conquor any others who happen to be around?  Those who happen to make the claim most loudly or frequently or to sufficient other numbers of humans? Technology? (Can't be that, or None of us would be considered "civilized" up until this past century, really.)  Or are you using something like "plumbing" to determine what is and isn't civilization?  Civility is a mask - a very Thin mask when you put the equation at one of sheer survival, rather than "stuff."  One that's stripped away on a fairly regular and routine basis.

Mechanically - biologically - we are little removed from any other mammal on the planet.  It is species ego which causes us to assume we are the most intelligent, or the most "civilized" species on the planet.  So what is it really that makes us "different"? Is our difference due to Tool Use?   Is it our so called "exclusive" ability to manipulate our environment?  Anyone who's ever been owned by 4 footed children will promptly tell you otherewise on both counts - our pets simply use us As the tools in order to manipulate Their environment!  (Anyone who wants to scoff at this idea take a moment and think about the last time your dog sat at the door whining to be let out so it could toilet, or the cat weaving itself around your legs to get your attention because the food dish was empty!)  Primates of various sorts have been shown both in captivity and the wild to use tools of sorts - crude by our standards, but tools none the less.  Several species both on land and in water have shown significant ability to problem solve - which is a tool We use frequently to determine intelligence even amongst ourselves.

Either way, we are a species with massive ego.

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It's our capacity to produce 'useless' things like art, literature and music, that makes us a rather unusual phenomenon.

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ORIGINAL: WetBetty
I am getting a terrible haddock.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Granted, most of the dreck that is shamelessly passed off as art, literature, and music is quite useless.

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I meant that human beings invent things that are anything but utilitarian:

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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I meant that human beings invent things that are anything but utilitarian:

Your definition of art is far too narrow. The quilts from Gee Bend are both artistic and utilitarian. Shaker furniture celebrates utility as art. Architects create "useful" art every day.

In fact, one could argue that the less utilitarian a creation is, the less artistic it is as well.

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's our capacity to produce 'useless' things like art, literature and music, that makes us a rather unusual phenomenon.

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Interesting... while other species do , sometimes, use tools, dream, and are capable of conceptualization and communication, I know of no other species that produces art.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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Interesting... while other species do , sometimes, use tools, dream, and are capable of conceptualization and communication, I know of no other species that produces art.

Aren't you presuming a singular agreed-upon definition of what constitutes "art"?

The capacity of other animals to produce abstract art is hardly a settled question.

http://www.abslogic.com/AnimalArt.htm

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ORIGINAL: cjan

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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Interesting... while other species do , sometimes, use tools, dream, and are capable of conceptualization and communication, I know of no other species that produces art.

Aren't you presuming a singular agreed-upon definition of what constitutes "art"?

The capacity of other animals to produce abstract art is hardly a settled question.

http://www.abslogic.com/AnimalArt.htm

Defining what constitutes art is an impossible task. However, I know it when I see, hear, read, taste or touch it. It engages me intellectually and moves me emotionally. So far, those qualities are lacking in anything I've seen produced by any species other than human.

Having said that, of course, some artistic creations that engage and move some others fail to have the same effect on me. But, I believe that these are two separate issues. Show me some "work of art" produced by another species that engages and moves any human and I will concede your point.

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Having said that, of course, some artistic creations that engage and move some others fail to have the same effect on me. But, I believe that these are two separate issues. Show me some "work of art" produced by another species that engages and moves any human and I will concede your point.

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CelticLaird:

At the end of the day, what distinguishes homo sapiens from the rest of the animal kingdom is that we have adapted to virtually every set of environmental conditions on the planet--except for the dinosaurs, no creature has dominated the planet to the extent humans have.

What sets us apart perhaps is not so much that we are unique but that we are merely victorious.

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peachy:

The problem here CJ is that you're making the same assumption that most make (even the "scientists")  - the assumption being that it is Not defined as art by HUMANS, and therefore it is not defined as art by ANY species.
 
No, it's generally not considered "artistic" to most of those in Our Species.  But we do not have the right - or the ABILITY - to speak for Every Species on the planet.  To do so - to Presume to do so - is species egotism of the worst sort.  Frankly - there's a lot of "abstract" art that does absolutely nothing to move ME emotionally, and that is "art" produced by humans to be interpreted by humans.