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BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 7:46:20 PM   
utopicus


Posts: 97
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Greetings all

I cannot stop asking a stupid question, like I always do when I cannot keep my mouth shut: could BDSM be defined or described as a religion?
Why is that?
Well, the classical trio exists: faith, practice and study. Now, faith can be translated by the innate desire to submit or dominate and is enhanced by practice and study. Practice is meaningless without study and quite impossible without faith. Lastly, study directs the followers on the right track and prevents deviances, as practice without knowing what one practices is aimless.
This prompts me to the next question, regarding faith and practice: how important is the presence of a mentor in the whole process of maturation? Can fulfilment be attained by self, or the presence of a sensei is desired?

Regards,
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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 8:02:26 PM   
Usako


Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline 		Neither in my eyes.

Way back when, my Asian history teacher said the difference between a religion and a philosophy was that a religion speaks of the after life where as a philosophy is just a way to live. I tend to agree. Though I wouldn't call BDSM a philosopy either well to me anyway. I don't really see any faith in BDSM. I see faith/trust in one's relationship but not the blind faith people give to voices in the sky. Though there are some that offer blind faith to their partner, which scares me at times.

I think plenty of people do fine in BDSM without a mentor. Somethings things are better when realized alone, especially since a "mentor" can have other motives. IE: I'll guide you...and you'll fuck me, see how well I teach!

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 8:12:00 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		That's an awfully loose parallel. Faith has nothing to do with how I conduct my BDSM (or other) activities. Despite Gorean and Old Guard protocols, there is no universal expectation for how to conduct one's self within the construct of it.

And lastly, save for perhaps more extreme power exchange dynamic endearments, no deity or deities exist or are necessitated by it.


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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 8:14:31 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

Practice is meaningless without study and quite impossible without faith.

This statement is completely wrong.  Your "classic trio" might enhance each other, but to suggest absolute interdependence is foolish....as a cursory review of current events the world over demonstrates conclusively.


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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 8:46:08 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: utopicus
Now, faith can be translated by the innate desire to submit or dominate


Sorry, cannot make the stretch on that one.  I see "faith" as nothing of the kind.


Cali
(knows that just because she says ohgod-ohgod-ohgod, doesn't make it a religion)


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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 8:52:04 PM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		It would be nice if BDSM were a religion... I could use a tax break, and, being supported by my fellowship, we could finally afford to build a church/play club.

Finally! An organized religion where sex scandals would be not only par for the course, but actually one of the basic tennents...

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 8:54:55 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		I think it's common for many of us, at one time or another, to have a pint (or ten) and think grand thoughts about BDSM.  But the truth is, it's just not that spectacular.  And I'm ok with that.
 
John

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 9:04:16 PM   
DomDG


Posts: 63
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline 		A true mentor is good for growth.  A true mentor is a teacher and guide, not a play partner. 

As for faith and this life, no! it's not a religion, though many of us may have been led here by the 'structure' of the religion in which we were raised. 

I still have a faith, I still have a belief system, and it is completely separate from my BDSM realm.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar," Freud said in talking about phalic symbols.  And sometimes a kink is just a kink!




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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 9:06:37 PM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		Faith and trust are closely related - I not only trust my Master but have faith that he will not ever harm me.  Either top or bottom can almost worship the other; in fact it's not uncommon for a top to ask a bottom to worship a part of their bodies or for subs to ask to be allowed to do so.  I believe that individuals can make it into a religion for themselves, even praying to the Dominant.  I also think that this is a fairly small percentage.

One need not have much knowledge to have faith, and even people with faith do not always put it into practice.  From the "worshipers" I have seen in the lifestyle they follow their faith with actions.  They have needed no true mentor for this though may have studied books and articles, been to local munches, and learned in other ways.


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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 9:28:56 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Finally! An organized religion where sex scandals would be not only par for the course, but actually one of the basic tennents...

The headlines alone would be a hoot:

"Monogamy scandal rocks St Andrew the Sadistic"


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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 9:46:16 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: utopicus

could BDSM be defined or described as a religion?

Some people consider BD/SM to be a lifestyle and others, like me, don't.  For me, BD/SM has always been simply a form of sexual expression within my intimate relationships.
 
If some people want to make BD/SM into a religion, why not?  After all, there have been religions based on all sorts of things, so why not this too? 
 
If you start the Church of BD/SM, there's a good chance you will get a pretty good turn-out in the pews.  But, you might want to just let everyone bring their own BD/SM Bible, since it seems that very few people, can ever fully agree on much concerning BD/SM, such as what it means to be submissive or to be a slave or to be kinky or a masochist or, etc., etc.
 
joy
Master David's erotic-domestic slave

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 9:50:48 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		For me, neither. BDSM is an activity I engage in, as a form of expressing who I am with the person I am with. Neither is D/s a lifestyle or religion for me - I am submissive in my relationships. Being such is part of overall life.

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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 10:02:16 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The tax free status might be nice... but other than that... I can't see it.  But hey... who wouldn't want a book named after them? We could be founding saints.  Written from the isle of Fantasea about our savior on a cross who got forty lashes for our many sin's.  Then we could condemn the world if they didn't believe and forgive those who pleased us.

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 10:14:23 PM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		Religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Nope, not even close. I don't even consider it some great lifestyle that eclipses all others.

To me, it's an expression of a relationship between people that takes into account our strengths, weaknesses, kinks, wants. and needs. It's an acceptance that we can fulfill each other.

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/6/2008 11:23:23 PM   
Aszhrae


Posts: 1030
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline 		If philosophy is how another chooses to live their life. If others supported and taught that philosophy then it would become a doctrine of some kind.
Looking at it as a religion, then it would require that you gain some kind spiritual insight or form of enlightenment.
Spinning dervishes, spin about until they become enlightened and receive visions.
India has the practice of piercing the body, carrying great ornamental pieces as they make their way to a place of worship, those that make the journey, some have been known to collapse from the exhaustion and once more receive visions.
BDSM has always been an integral part of most religions in some form or another. Even in some cultures the practice of bdsm is a way of life, thus a philosophy passed from one generation to the next, effectively becoming a doctrine.
Vampirism was practiced by certain tribes in Africa that worshipped the goddess she-that-can-not-be-named.
Ritual bloodletting, being a form of sado-masochism. Blood was often used in the practice high magick. Either by the blood from the cut across the palm or the blood from an individual posing as a particular animal.
The process of flagellation, whipping your self in the act of repentance, your sins cleansed with each lash of the whip.

Girl would have to say both, as a cultural practice and as a religious practice.

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/7/2008 12:09:43 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: utopicus
ould BDSM be defined or described as a religion?
Why is that?

No, but as you say, many similar characteristics are in place.

quote:

This prompts me to the next question, regarding faith and practice: how important is the presence of a mentor in the whole process of maturation? Can fulfilment be attained by self, or the presence of a sensei is desired?

Zero, in fact mentors are usually crap predators.

I believe fulfillment can be attained by self, I can say I've certainly never had a formal mentor.

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/7/2008 12:09:55 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline
MODERATORS 1

1. In the beginning a dominant created Collarme. 2. And the site was without form. And there was a void in the Internet. 3. And a Goddess spoke out and said,'Let there be profiles.' And there were profiles. 4. And the Goddess saw that there were profiles and so it came to pass that the profiles were separated from the message boards and into being came Collarchat.

5. And the Goddess said 'Let there be sections in Collarchat..' And so there were sections, General BDSM Discussion, Ask A Mistress, Ask A Master, Ask a Submissive, Ask a Switch and so on. 6. And the Goddess created dominants, and submissives, and slaves, and switches, and the dominants in turn became male doms and female dommes. 7. And the dominants created profiles, and the submissives created profiles, and the switches created profiles, as did the slaves. 8. And the dominants, submissives and others wandered freely through the site. 9. And as they wandered through the message boards on Collarchat threads were created in all of the sections.

10. And on the evening of the fourth day uploaded photos were approved. 11. And the Goddess looked on, and was pleased. 'Be blessed and find each other' she said, 'And go forth and multiply.' 12. And threads were being created, and all the dominants, submissives, slaves and switches discussed topics common to BDSM in harmony, and peace, and beauty.

13. And on the sixth day in the evening the Goddess created the Casual Banter section, with the Off Topic section and humour. 14. And in the evening the Goddess in her wisdom created Polls and Other Random Stupidity. And these sections also saw new threads and postings from dominants, submissives, switches and slaves all in harmony.

14. And on the seventh day, in the morning, just to make things interesting, there came to pass the creation of newbies, vanilla cones, a ranking system, capitalization, slashy speak and third person speech. 15. And the TOS was created and it was decided that the dominant shall seek and control the submissive, and the submissive shall submit to their dominant. 16. And some dominants shall take ownership of submissives and these submissives shall become slaves. 17. And the switches shall either top or bottom just to add variety.

18. And it came to pass that in General BDSM Discussion there was a thread on apples. [I know folks, I know, caffeine shortage here] and there were many postings on this thread. 19. It was known that Goddess had said no negative references to other posters. And girl posted about apples. 20. A fetishist posted suggesting that girl do something sinful and wicked with the apple. 21. And the girl, feeling kinky, did indeed do something sinful and wicked with the apple. 22. And uploaded photos of body parts on which there was a sizeable green dot.

23. And it was asked of the girl and fetishist, 'What is this that you have done?' 24. And the girl said,'I was kinky and the fetishist said that it was necessary, and besides, I felt like it.'

24. And it was said unto the fetishist, 'Because Thou hast done this, there will be trolls, fakes and wannabes released among the profiles, and some will be suspicious of those who are not considered true or real, and there will be a great many form letters, one liners, textspeak and dick shots. And Thou shalt have great tribulations in your search for a Mistress.

25. And it was said to the girl, 'Because Thou hast done this there will be empty profiles, Thou shalt be addressed as slut, bitch and ho and plagued by horny net geeks and one handed typists and commanded to 'kneel bitch' on first contact, and there will be a great many dick pics, and other female submissives and slaves will try to get you to serve their Masters.'

26. And unto the rest it was said,' Because none of you prevented this theren will be many trolls and posters seeking wank fodder, and endless threads on hard limits, religion and BDSM, the differences between subs and slaves, and threads asking why can't I find a female submissive, and why can't I find a Mistress, and many topics for threads will be similar, many will not use the search function, and threads will be brought back from the past eternally.'

27. 'And furthermore you will argue on threads without finding any consensus or agreement, and there will be flaming, and eternally you will have Moderator 11 in your midst.'

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/7/2008 1:14:25 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I agree with what has already been presented that BDSM is neither a Religion nor a Lifestyle per se.  My rreligion is of the Pagan Faith and has npothing to do with or is not bound up with BDSM although I use some aspects of BDSM (Bondage, flogging and breath control all under thre term of Waricking) as one technique towards enlightenment. My Lifestyle is how I live my life on a daily basis and this has a solid historical basis and is tied in with family traditions set in the late Victorian and early Edwardian ers with all the etiguette, manners and protocols of a more gracious era. Thnat at times I may choose my atire to be from that period is just my sence of dress codes 

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Master of Bruin Cottage

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/7/2008 5:38:29 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		I never sought a mentor in religion--I sought books and defined Myself and My spirituality.
 
I never sought a mentor in this life--I sought books and defined Myself and My practices.
 
Religion addresses the belief in something greater than you-- the faith, belief, and practices in such. (IMHO)
 
I practice BDSM, do I have faith and a spiritual belief in it? No. Will it save My soul? I doubt it, if I have a soul. Does it guide My daily values? No. Does it guide My humanity and My interactions with others? No.
 
Does My spirituality? Yes.

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"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/7/2008 6:57:27 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		imho

BDSM is neither a lifestyle or religion. i don't live or breathe it 24/7/365 nor do i worship it or attend  BDSM Church of the Holy Flogger for weekly "services".

the kink is simply a special part of who i am ...that i enjoy out of the ordinary sexual things.

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