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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/7/2008 8:17:29 PM   
MstrPBK


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quote:

Finally! An organized religion where sex scandals would be not only par for the course, but actually one of the basic tennents...


Historically most western governments have crushed movements like described above.

Religions on the whole need to aspire to some "divine" goal or state of mind which normally can not be found by the average person. Other religions are a conceptual view point or philosophy (like Atheists), Those with open ended beliefs (like Unitarian Universalists) are closer to what is conceived here - but still something is missing.

I believe that the Greek God Apollo had a son who was gay ... can anyone tell me if there was any record of a religious following that existed for him? Maybe this will lead us to some truth of the original question.

MstrPBK
St Paul, MN

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/7/2008 8:39:02 PM   
Aszhrae


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I believe that the Greek God Apollo had a son who was gay ... can anyone tell me if there was any record of a religious following that existed for him? Maybe this will lead us to some truth of the original question.

Would that by chance be Dionysus?

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/7/2008 8:56:58 PM   
kidwithknife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae
Would that by chance be Dionysus?

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be it.  All of the legends have it that Dionysus' father was Zeus, although interestingly there's two different stories of who his mother was.  Either Semele (to make things even more complicated, in that version of the legend Zeus is both Dionysus' father and his second mother) or Persephone.

Off the top of my head I'm not sure which of Apollo's sons it would be.  The chances are pretty high that at least some legends exist though.  A lot of the Greek Gods and heroes had both male and female lovers.  Apollo himself is one of the most prominent for that, but legends definitely exist for both Zeus and Hercules, which shows how common place that is.




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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/8/2008 4:29:11 PM   
mozartsfuneral


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Joined: 11/2/2008
Status: offline 		While i study Egyptian Faith and pray to several Goddesses, i am not sure i would want to go to a BDSM church...though the thought is interesting.

And no there is no huge following of Dionysus...

< Message edited by mozartsfuneral -- 12/8/2008 4:31:13 PM >

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/8/2008 4:32:39 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mozartsfuneral

While i study Egyptian Faith

Waitasec.  You mean Kemetism?  I had no idea people did that in the United States -- or anywhere else, really.  I thought the Copts were as Egyptian-faithy as you could get.



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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/8/2008 4:55:15 PM   
mozartsfuneral


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Status: offline 		No no i should have been more clear, Egyptian Mythology, but i have seen Kemetism and am interested in learning more about it.

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/8/2008 4:57:14 PM   
SailingBum


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Wonders if somebody forgot to take their meds this am.

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/8/2008 5:22:07 PM   
oceanwynds


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Aesculapius was Apollo's son. Not sure of his sexual preferrance. His son was the Greek god of medicene and was pictured with snakes.



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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/8/2008 5:45:54 PM   
boytoyinatlanta


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Status: offline 		bdsm is a choice so one can say it's a lifestyle....saying that it's a religion is taking it too far to cult status

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/8/2008 5:46:10 PM   
Aszhrae


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Status: offline 		Only reason Dionysus was mentioned was because there was a temple to the god that was very hedonistic in its worship considering it acted as a place much like a brothel and yet it was a religion.

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/8/2008 6:55:33 PM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

Only reason Dionysus was mentioned was because there was a temple to the god that was very hedonistic in its worship considering it acted as a place much like a brothel and yet it was a religion.


If you want to read something that incorporates religion and a place being like a brothel, check out "A World Lit Only By Fire", about the Catholic Church in the Medieval/Renaissance Eras. 
Also, there have been varius religions across time where prostitution was and is held as sacred.  Not all faths have the FUBAR ideas about sex that some seem to. 
  Davan

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/8/2008 7:00:00 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Status: offline 		I don't think deities can have sexual orientations.  That would be like saying what their blood type is.

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/8/2008 8:03:32 PM   
kidwithknife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mozartsfuneral
And no there is no huge following of Dionysus...
Historically, while it wasn't one of the biggest, it definitely existed.  In fact, it almost certainly predates ancient Greek civilisation.  It's hard to be certain on numbers etc. though, because it was a mystery religion.

Interestingly, in terms of BDSM, the early Dionysian mysteries seemed to be very much a religion of outsiders from Greek society.  On top of that, there's evidence that the initiation ceremony included flagellation, at least for women

In modern terms, it exists, but you're right it isn't a big following, even among neopaganism.  While a handful of Hellenic Reconstructionists worship Dionysus, he doesn't seem to be that popular a god in those circles.  You'll find slightly more support among the overtly countercultural wing of neopaganism- The UK group called the "Dionysian Underground" take this kind of approach.

quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwynds

Aesculapius was Apollo's son. Not sure of his sexual preferrance. His son was the Greek god of medicene and was pictured with snakes.


Almost certainly heterosexual I'd say.  Married.  Five kids.  No legends of any lovers, which is rare for the Greek gods.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I don't think deities can have sexual orientations.  That would be like saying what their blood type is.


While that's definitely the case with the transcendent deity of the Abrahamic religions, it's more debatable when looking at the ancient Greek pantheon- they took a very anthromorphic approach to their gods, so sexual orientation could be seen as a part of that view.

Heh, I think I should at least try and answer the OP at this point. 

I'd see it like this.  BDSM itself is neither a religion or a philosophical viewpoint.  What it is, is a subculture.  And members of that subculture have various views and approaches to both religion and philosophy.  Hence, some people (myself included) do synthesis that with their BDSM practise, but that isn't universal and shouldn't be mistaken for such.


_____________________________

We went to see the fall of Rome - I thought it would please us
To watch how the mighty go in a blaze of hubris
But I just stood there hypnotised by all the beautiful madness

(New Model Army, Into the Wind)

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/9/2008 1:21:40 AM   
steviemichael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: utopicus

Greetings all

I cannot stop asking a stupid question, like I always do when I cannot keep my mouth shut: could BDSM be defined or described as a religion?
Why is that?
Well, the classical trio exists: faith, practice and study. Now, faith can be translated by the innate desire to submit or dominate and is enhanced by practice and study. Practice is meaningless without study and quite impossible without faith. Lastly, study directs the followers on the right track and prevents deviances, as practice without knowing what one practices is aimless.
This prompts me to the next question, regarding faith and practice: how important is the presence of a mentor in the whole process of maturation? Can fulfilment be attained by self, or the presence of a sensei is desired?

Regards,


Doubt is the step stone to Faith .
Faith is something that results on the foundation of experience of the heart the essence of emotions  that brings enlightment  which is  a personal experience not on the hunman process of thoughts of the collective.
Like wise with yourself with posting questions i post stupid answers smiles


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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/9/2008 1:29:56 AM   
steviemichael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwynds



Aesculapius was Apollo's son. Not sure of his sexual preferrance. His son was the Greek god of medicene and was pictured with snakes.




darn it i thought those snakes were a perm and therfore had a great sense of hairstyle which gave a clue that he was gay .not that i am saying all men or woman who have perm hair are gay.

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/9/2008 2:09:11 AM   
AlexandraLynch


Posts: 778
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Status: offline 		While BDSM is not a religion for me, it does have religious aspects. Or, perhaps more accurately, because of what my religion is and does, it laps over and affects how I approach and do BDSM. I have told people before that my oaths religiously permit me to submit to no man. I understand both dominance and submission to be holy mysteries, and value the insights into them I recieve through scenes with my co-dominant and my boy as much as I value more formal and traditional forms or worship. I understand sexuality to be a holy mystery and a sacred action. Knowing this also means I can't play at BDSM with someone I do not care about and love.

None of this is prescriptive on anyone else, not even my boy. I'm pagan, and we're not too much for proselytizing.

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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/9/2008 7:40:52 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b


18. And it came to pass that in General BDSM Discussion there was a thread on apples. [I know folks, I know, caffeine shortage here] and there were many postings on this thread. 19. It was known that Goddess had said no negative references to other posters. And girl posted about apples. 20. A fetishist posted suggesting that girl do something sinful and wicked with the apple. 21. And the girl, feeling kinky, did indeed do something sinful and wicked with the apple. 22. And uploaded photos of body parts on which there was a sizeable green dot.

23. And it was asked of the girl and fetishist, 'What is this that you have done?' 24. And the girl said,'I was kinky and the fetishist said that it was necessary, and besides, I felt like it.'

24. And it was said unto the fetishist, 'Because Thou hast done this, there will be trolls, fakes and wannabes released among the profiles, and some will be suspicious of those who are not considered true or real, and there will be a great many form letters, one liners, textspeak and dick shots. And Thou shalt have great tribulations in your search for a Mistress.

25. And it was said to the girl, 'Because Thou hast done this there will be empty profiles, Thou shalt be addressed as slut, bitch and ho and plagued by horny net geeks and one handed typists and commanded to 'kneel bitch' on first contact, and there will be a great many dick pics, and other female submissives and slaves will try to get you to serve their Masters.'

26. And unto the rest it was said,' Because none of you prevented this theren will be many trolls and posters seeking wank fodder, and endless threads on hard limits, religion and BDSM, the differences between subs and slaves, and threads asking why can't I find a female submissive, and why can't I find a Mistress, and many topics for threads will be similar, many will not use the search function, and threads will be brought back from the past eternally.'

27. 'And furthermore you will argue on threads without finding any consensus or agreement, and there will be flaming, and eternally you will have Moderator 11 in your midst.'

All I'm going to say is, if all of that was brought on by some chick who got kinky with an apple, I'm kicking her ass.


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RE: BDSM - lifestyle or religion - 12/9/2008 5:33:00 PM   
atropa7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kidwithknife
quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwynds

Aesculapius was Apollo's son. Not sure of his sexual preferrance. His son was the Greek god of medicene and was pictured with snakes.


Almost certainly heterosexual I'd say.  Married.  Five kids.  No legends of any lovers, which is rare for the Greek gods.


Let's not forget that marriage and kids don't preclude same sex proclivities, romantic, or sexual love for the ancient greeks :)


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