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RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/10/2008 9:04:02 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Legalization will never work, hard drugs especially.

You should study the history of drug laws in this country.   The violence and crime that everyone can't get past is the effect of those drug laws, not their cause.


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RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/10/2008 9:13:45 PM   
HunterS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni
And sadly, you're right.  Take for example cocaine or heroine.  While either could be grown and produced here in the US if it were legalized... it could still be grown and produced overseas cheaper.  So, we legalize it, we set it up to be domestically produced and controlled, taxed, etc.  The drug lords will produce it and sell it cheaper, and so they still make money.  Not nearly as much, but they still make money.

Have you any idea where the American pharmaceutical corporations obtain their Herion and Cocaine presently?  Do you know the price differential between pharmaceutical and illicit Cocaine and Heroin?  Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with these necessary facts  before you make such illinformed posts.



And because of the addictive nature of these drugs and the compusions that come with those addictions... people will do strange things to get those drugs.

Should you choose to avail yourself of the pharmacopia you might discover that Cocaine is not physiologically addictive and that Nicotine is far more physiologically addictive than Heroin.



Problem is that the problem isn't drug addiction... its stupidity... and there's no cure for that either.  Closest we can get is eliminating some of it from the gene pool. 

Are you suggesting that we execute all stupid people?  If so then who gets to make the decission as to who is too stupid to breath.  If I remember my history correctly the Nazis tried that one...is that what you are suggesting?


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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/10/2008 10:01:42 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

Your post is filled with both vast and half vast opinions based on ignorance.

Interesting use of the enlish language, and about as nonsensical as the rest of your opinions.
 
quote:

Cocain is not a narcotic it is a stimulant. 

Chemically correct, however, take three grams and pay a visit to your local police station and while they are booking you asking them what the charge is.  The charge will be illegal possession of a controlled substance or more commonly... illegal narcotics possesion.  But really, you're quibling over a minor point just to pick a fight.  Why not come straight out with your real complaint rather than all this passive aggressive dancing around it... you're a fan of recreational drug use and on that basis took exception to my comments.  In making an emotionally driven response, made no notice my comments were pure sarcasm... neither intended to be taken literally or seriously.

quote:

The laws of our country apply to everyone not to just those whose actions you approve. 

Oh I don't know... seems the news is filled frequently with complaints based on the fact that the laws do not apply equally to everyone.  Either that or all those women and minorities are just going on about nothing.

quote:

Pluueeeze get a clue.

Given that the post you decided to make such a snarky retort to what was itself a work of sarcasm... which was noted a little further down... a fact you've either overlooked or ignored... I'd say you might want to look for a clue yourself.


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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/10/2008 10:17:08 PM   
Padriag


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Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

And sadly, you're right.  Take for example cocaine or heroine.  While either could be grown and produced here in the US if it were legalized... it could still be grown and produced overseas cheaper.  So, we legalize it, we set it up to be domestically produced and controlled, taxed, etc.  The drug lords will produce it and sell it cheaper, and so they still make money.  Not nearly as much, but they still make money.

quote:

Have you any idea where the American pharmaceutical corporations obtain their Herion and Cocaine presently?  Do you know the price differential between pharmaceutical and illicit Cocaine and Heroin?  Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with these necessary facts  before you make such illinformed posts.

And what exactly is your point here... or do you have one?  I don't see you presenting any "facts" though you make every effort to appear to be an expert on the topic.  Are your trying to say cocaine could be produced domestically cheaper than drug lords could do so?  Or is this just you arguing with me for the sake of arguing.  Because really, if you're such an expert, let's see the financial breakdown... go on... where's your numbers?

quote:

And because of the addictive nature of these drugs and the compusions that come with those addictions... people will do strange things to get those drugs.

quote:

Should you choose to avail yourself of the pharmacopia you might discover that Cocaine is not physiologically addictive and that Nicotine is far more physiologically addictive than Heroin.

That's your opinion... however, since you seem to be such a stickler for scientific accuracy then you ought to know that cocaine is both physiologically and psychologically addictive.  But then I'm going to guess that youre response will be that that's all a lie told by "them" in order to repress people and keep an otherwise harmless stimulant out of the common people's hands... or something to that effect.  Again... that's your opinion if that's where you want to go... however, I've sat with individuals going through withdrawals from cocaine addictions... I know better.

quote:

Problem is that the problem isn't drug addiction... its stupidity... and there's no cure for that either.  Closest we can get is eliminating some of it from the gene pool. 

quote:

Are you suggesting that we execute all stupid people?  If so then who gets to make the decission as to who is too stupid to breath.  If I remember my history correctly the Nazis tried that one...is that what you are suggesting?

Oh its far simpler than that... stupidity has a way of eliminating itself.  I don't have to decide who is too stupid to breathe, expecially not when the meth addict is convulsing on the floor no longer able to breathe on their own.  Leave them to their own devices and they'll take themselves out of the gene pool.  The question, since it seems to escape you... is one of whether or not society is willing to allow that to happen as it will, or if it will continue to try an intervene in an endless effort to try to control human behavior and protect people from themselves, an ongoing effort to try and legislate morality, intelligence and standards of living... rather than letting people do as they will... and learn to fully accept the consequences of their own behavior.  That, was the point of my bit of political sarcasm... which if too witty for you... well... just go hit your bong dude, it'll be okay.


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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/10/2008 10:19:47 PM   
popeye1250


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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Not surprising really.
I mean does this article really "surprise" anyone in here?
We need to stop treating Mexico as if they're our "friend." They're not.


When have we ever treated them like friends?
When we took half of their country at gunpoint?
When we deported over a million American citizens with Mexican surnames?
Like it or not Mexico is our second largest trading partner...Canada being number one.
 
H


Hunter, Awwwwww, crocodile tears!

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RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/10/2008 10:51:03 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

Your post is filled with both vast and half vast opinions based on ignorance.

Interesting use of the enlish language, and about as nonsensical as the rest of your opinions.
I found this particular use of enlish[sic] to be quite creative.
 
quote:

quote:

Cocain is not a narcotic it is a stimulant. 

Chemically correct, however, take three grams and pay a visit to your local police station and while they are booking you asking them what the charge is.  The charge will be illegal possession of a controlled substance or more commonly... illegal narcotics possesion.  But really, you're quibling over a minor point just to pick a fight.  Why not come straight out with your real complaint rather than all this passive aggressive dancing around it... you're a fan of recreational drug use and on that basis took exception to my comments.  In making an emotionally driven response, made no notice my comments were pure sarcasm... neither intended to be taken literally or seriously.
Chemistry has nothing to do with pharmacology, and neither have anything to do with legal definitions. It's hardly a minor point, and Hunter is quite correct. That incorrect usage is slowly giving way in the medical profession to opioid analgesics, which more accurately describes their function. Opioids, when used  for pain management, are rarely "addictive". The pharmacology of opioids and stimulants are quite different. The stimulants produce a dopamine excess  in the mesolimbic system.  
http://www.addictionscience.net/ASNbiological.htm

At any rate, it is Prohibition itsef which produces most of the problems associated with  illegal drugs, from cross-border skirmishes to sepsis from contaminated delivery systems.

I'm in favor of immediately legalizing Cannabis, peyote, and Stropharia cubensis cultivars. I'm definitely opposed to legalizing the stimulant amphetamines (as opposed to the psychedelic amphetamines). As we said back in the day, "Speed Kills". I think low-dose codeine and possibly hydrocodone should be available "behind the counter". Coca leaves are fairly inocuous. I would decriminalize growing poppies. I'm of two minds about cocaine. I'd look at everything else with a view towards toxicity and propensity towards producing violent behavior. Since alcohol is such an ingrained part of Western culture, I guess that should keep its current status.


< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 12/10/2008 10:53:09 PM >


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"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

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(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 5:51:35 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

just go hit your bong dude, it'll be okay.

 

Trying to ridicule the messenger is always easier than responding intelectually.
 
quote:

And what exactly is your point here... or do you have one? 

 
My point was and is that your post is long on opinion and emotion and woefully lacking in substance.
 
quote:

That's your opinion... however, since you seem to be such a stickler for scientific accuracy then you ought to know that cocaine is both physiologically and psychologically addictive.


No this is not opinion but fact as documented in both the PDR and in the data sheets packed with each dose of pharmaceutical Cocaine. 
Psychological addiction???  I doubt that there are many who would not agree that sex is psychologically addictive...so I fail to see the point of your including this in your arguement.
 
quote:

The question, since it seems to escape you... is one of whether or not society is willing to allow that to happen as it will, or if it will continue to try an intervene in an endless effort to try to control human behavior and protect people from themselves, an ongoing effort to try and legislate morality, intelligence and standards of living... rather than letting people do as they will...


That is the purpose of society.  We form ourselves into societies so that life is better for the whole not so that the rich,powerful or cleaver may take advantage of those who are not.  Society is not here to protect us from ourselves but to protect us from predators.
 
H



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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 5:58:00 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Not surprising really.
I mean does this article really "surprise" anyone in here?
We need to stop treating Mexico as if they're our "friend." They're not.


When have we ever treated them like friends?
When we took half of their country at gunpoint?
When we deported over a million American citizens with Mexican surnames?
Like it or not Mexico is our second largest trading partner...Canada being number one.
 
H


Hunter, Awwwwww, crocodile tears!


You stated that we should stop treating Mexico as a friend.  I pointed out that we never have treated Mexico as a friend.  I am at a loss as to the meaning of your comment about "crocodile tears"
 
H

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RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 7:01:00 AM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Legalization will never work, hard drugs especially.

You should study the history of drug laws in this country.   The violence and crime that everyone can't get past is the effect of those drug laws, not their cause.



I have :)
Drugs are part of the crime problem, and the current laws are as well. You don't want to really know the draconian methods I would use to combat the drug problem.


_____________________________

when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like nails

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”

Genghis Khan

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 7:32:29 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

Drugs are part of the crime problem, and the current laws are as well. You don't want to really know the draconian methods I would use to combat the drug problem. 


Oh...what would you do that has not  been tried somewhere  before and found to  be useless?
 
H

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 9:05:44 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

Drugs are part of the crime problem, and the current laws are as well. You don't want to really know the draconian methods I would use to combat the drug problem.

I doubt your methods are any more draconian than have been tried elsewhere.

The crime "problem" stems from a lack of enforcement on the one hand and a lack of accountability on the other. It doesn't matter if a person was stoned or just stupid when they ran a red light and killed someone, or decided to rob a bank, or commit any manner of criminal act. The damage done arises from the deed, not the drug.

Blaming the drugs just lets people off the hook. Small wonder crooks commit crimes again and again and again....

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RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 12:23:52 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

Drugs are part of the crime problem, and the current laws are as well. You don't want to really know the draconian methods I would use to combat the drug problem. 


Oh...what would you do that has not  been tried somewhere  before and found to  be useless?
 
H
Torturing addicted people with show tunes?

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to HunterS)
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RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 1:01:19 PM   
Irishknight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS
Oh...what would you do that has not  been tried somewhere  before and found to  be useless?
 
H
Torturing addicted people with show tunes?

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!  You are a truly evil man.

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RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 1:31:45 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Drugs are part of the crime problem, and the current laws are as well. You don't want to really know the draconian methods I would use to combat the drug problem.

I doubt your methods are any more draconian than have been tried elsewhere.

The crime "problem" stems from a lack of enforcement on the one hand and a lack of accountability on the other. It doesn't matter if a person was stoned or just stupid when they ran a red light and killed someone, or decided to rob a bank, or commit any manner of criminal act. The damage done arises from the deed, not the drug.

Blaming the drugs just lets people off the hook. Small wonder crooks commit crimes again and again and again....


Actively hunting for and the instant execution of any dealer. Hard labor for "detox" for addicts. I am not blaming the drugs. Seems to me, the people who use drugs and get in trouble are the idiots of our society. So lets speed up Darwinism and let them die in a forced labor camp detoxing. And lets just skip the trial and automatically execute dealers, a crack dealer shot in the street by a sweep squad might do some good.


_____________________________

when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like nails

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”

Genghis Khan

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 1:40:32 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Drugs are part of the crime problem, and the current laws are as well. You don't want to really know the draconian methods I would use to combat the drug problem.

I doubt your methods are any more draconian than have been tried elsewhere.

The crime "problem" stems from a lack of enforcement on the one hand and a lack of accountability on the other. It doesn't matter if a person was stoned or just stupid when they ran a red light and killed someone, or decided to rob a bank, or commit any manner of criminal act. The damage done arises from the deed, not the drug.

Blaming the drugs just lets people off the hook. Small wonder crooks commit crimes again and again and again....


Actively hunting for and the instant execution of any dealer. Hard labor for "detox" for addicts. I am not blaming the drugs. Seems to me, the people who use drugs and get in trouble are the idiots of our society. So lets speed up Darwinism and let them die in a forced labor camp detoxing. And lets just skip the trial and automatically execute dealers, a crack dealer shot in the street by a sweep squad might do some good.

I don't know how to tell you this, but many crack dealers are armed. Your "solution" sounds all JohnWayne macho toughguy and all, but I doubt you'd be the one getting into shootouts.  

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to rexrgisformidoni)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 1:50:21 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:


Actively hunting for and the instant execution of any dealer.

Sounds good to me.....oh, wait, there's this little thing called a right to a trial by jury. Seems you have to actually take the dealer ALIVE and haul him before a judge and jury. The idea is to avoid killing that bizarre specimen known as the innocent bystander, hence the requirement for a trial (annoying, this whole rule of law thing, isn't it?).

Not to mention the firepower drug dealers carry--your "instant execution" would more likely be "shootout at the OK corral." More of those pesky innocent bystanders would get killed.

Hate to burst your bubble, but Death Wish 3 was just a movie (and not even a good one).

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RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 2:04:37 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:


Actively hunting for and the instant execution of any dealer.

Sounds good to me.....oh, wait, there's this little thing called a right to a trial by jury. Seems you have to actually take the dealer ALIVE and haul him before a judge and jury. The idea is to avoid killing that bizarre specimen known as the innocent bystander, hence the requirement for a trial (annoying, this whole rule of law thing, isn't it?).

Not to mention the firepower drug dealers carry--your "instant execution" would more likely be "shootout at the OK corral." More of those pesky innocent bystanders would get killed.

Hate to burst your bubble, but Death Wish 3 was just a movie (and not even a good one).

Trial by jury is a joke. Plus my tax money pays for these animals to sit in prison and get a higher education in being a criminal. Don't like the idea of innocents hit? Fine, drag them to the station, and do it in the basement. I've never even seen death wish 3, didn't look all that great. Rule of law is a joke in some situations, and this is one of them. Anyhow, I am done arguing with you about this, think what you'd like.


_____________________________

when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like nails

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”

Genghis Khan

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 2:09:08 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Drugs are part of the crime problem, and the current laws are as well. You don't want to really know the draconian methods I would use to combat the drug problem.

I doubt your methods are any more draconian than have been tried elsewhere.

The crime "problem" stems from a lack of enforcement on the one hand and a lack of accountability on the other. It doesn't matter if a person was stoned or just stupid when they ran a red light and killed someone, or decided to rob a bank, or commit any manner of criminal act. The damage done arises from the deed, not the drug.

Blaming the drugs just lets people off the hook. Small wonder crooks commit crimes again and again and again....


Actively hunting for and the instant execution of any dealer. Hard labor for "detox" for addicts. I am not blaming the drugs. Seems to me, the people who use drugs and get in trouble are the idiots of our society. So lets speed up Darwinism and let them die in a forced labor camp detoxing. And lets just skip the trial and automatically execute dealers, a crack dealer shot in the street by a sweep squad might do some good.

I don't know how to tell you this, but many crack dealers are armed. Your "solution" sounds all JohnWayne macho toughguy and all, but I doubt you'd be the one getting into shootouts.  


I actually was almost a state trooper until I broke my leg and could not complete training. By the time I was healed up, running wasn't much of an option and sitting at a desk did not sound fun. Anyhow, most shootouts end up with tons of bullets in the air and very little getting hit. It takes a bit of training or practice to shoot accurately, and that's probably not very high on a dealers priority list. I think John Wayne would be awesome in a shootout, he never runs out of bullets!
Like I told Celtic, I am done arguing, opinions are just that.


_____________________________

when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like nails

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”

Genghis Khan

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 2:55:10 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Trial by jury is a joke.

Remember that when the Gestapo puts you in the next rail car.....

"Arbeit Macht Frei"

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Drug cartels bringing terrorism to US/Mexico border? - 12/11/2008 2:56:32 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

I actually was almost a state trooper until I broke my leg and could not complete training.

So basically HK was right, and you would NOT be the one taking on the drug dealers directly.....

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Profile   Post #: 60
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