How can I give you what is already yours? (Full Version)

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tsatske -> How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 8:05:26 AM)

Here is something that gets to me, from time to time, and not just here on CM - on other online WIITWD watering holes.

What is with this attitude that it is no longer neccassary - in fact, down right improper - for a slave/submissive or other peach to participate actively in their relationship?

The answer to subs saying 'what kind of rituals should I suggest' is too often - 'why would YOU suject anything - you are the slave, aren't you?'

On another site I'm on, some Master had the termitity to try to start a thread about how much they liked it when their slave presented themselves boldly to Master for sexual use - only to get told 'He doesn't need me to tell him he can use me - I am his property. I am not a DoMe sub like that.' Okay, then, go sit in a corner till Master wants you. HOpe he has some good pron to get his juices flowing, cause apparently it's 'unslavey' of you to do it.

Why is it 'unslavey' to suggest a rule? To ask to get beaten? I have needs to. He knows he is the Master - he can say no all he wants. In fact, he does, quite often. Another thing he does that is HIGHLY annoying, (must start another thread in ask a peach about how to train him out of that nasy habit) - He tends to give me - something somewhat like what I asked for! LOL. DAMN HIM.

But I just don't get that being a slave relieves me of having to WORK at having a good relatinship. What is this 'slaves should do nothing till they are ordered to' crap, anyway? I obey - but I also do things pretty atonoumously, till he tells me to not do it. I know He is Dom enough that I don't have to sit in a corner and twiddle my thumbs for fear that doing something will displease him - If I displease him, he knows how to let me know. I often do things to serve him without him being asked to. A little gift - a gift of what he already owns. And a risk on my part - he might not like it, might say, 'don't do that again.' But, for a chance to please him - SO WORTH the risk.

Okay - there really are some questions hidden in that rant, feel free to ferrett them out. </rant>



thetammyjo -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 8:12:12 AM)

I think my own slave would say that his work load in our relationship actually went up quite a bit when he went from sub to slave. Now he's expected to not only do all the things he did when he was a sub, one of them was being honest and open about his needs/desires, but he also has to motivate himself to do all his duties without my reminding him and to think of new ways to relieve me of mundane tasks so I can focus on my writing, scholarship, and general household management. Plus since part of his duties is to entertain me and assist me he must be constantly aware of my moods and needs, sometimes before I am fully aware of them.

That's a lot more responsibility on his end than he had before he became my slave.



manxcat -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 8:19:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I think my own slave would say that his work load in our relationship actually went up quite a bit when he went from sub to slave. Now he's expected to not only do all the things he did when he was a sub, one of them was being honest and open about his needs/desires, but he also has to motivate himself to do all his duties without my reminding him and to think of new ways to relieve me of mundane tasks so I can focus on my writing, scholarship, and general household management. Plus since part of his duties is to entertain me and assist me he must be constantly aware of my moods and needs, sometimes before I am fully aware of them.

That's a lot more responsibility on his end than he had before he became my slave.



Does he have a brother?  [:D]

manxy


____________
Artists make lousy slaves. -Jodi Jenson



SteveAndJaz -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 8:31:08 AM)

Jaz says

Well I am not a slave and don't consider myself a submissive really, though I can sometimes have a submissive head space on, so I guess Im a peach!!

I have to agree with the op here. Its called being mindful and thinking out of the box.




Padriag -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 8:34:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

What is with this attitude that it is no longer neccassary - in fact, down right improper - for a slave/submissive or other peach to participate actively in their relationship?

Dunno... hadn't really noticed.  Course I also frequently ignore morons.  They get boring so quickly.



CalifChick -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 8:37:33 AM)

Tsatske, the problem I see with "what rituals or protocols should I suggest to please my master" or something of that sort... it's like asking someone, "what should I do to please myself?"  Well, ummm, how are we supposed to know?  What do you like to do? Do you like flowers? Then go take a walk in a meadow.  Are you allergic to bees?  Skip the meadow. 

It would be different if someone said, "he appears to really enjoy it when we go to a formal dinner; how can I recreate some of that ambience at home", or "his face really lit up when I said I wanted to buy a schoolgirl skirt, does anybody have any other roleplay ideas".

Much like a husband asking a stranger what he should get his own wife for her birthday, how are we to have any clue in the world about what would please her master? 


Cali



DesFIP -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 10:21:54 AM)

First of all, I like being a peach. Great term.

Beyond that, if it is a very heavy micromanaged relationship, then it is wrong for the slave to suggest stuff. Of course what that suggests to me is that the M is insecure as all get out because otherwise he would appreciate knowing that he turns his peach on. Unfortunately there are guys out there who feel any info from their subs is equivalent to the dreaded tftb.

Thankfully there are subs who fit those types as well as a lot more dominants who do want to get inside their subs' heads and who do enjoy knowing their sub is wildly hot and turned on by them. 

But for all the subs who come off as lazy, just sit on the shelf and wait until they are taken down and played with, there are doms who like that. It is hard to tell when one of these subs posts if she is the one who is pushing the relationship in this direction or if this is how her dom wants her to be and she has become content in this role.




tsatske -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 11:41:49 AM)

Des - I got the term from a subbie mail list I used to belong to. It is designed to keep a conversation from deterating into, 'well, I am a slave, not a sub (a sub, not a slave, a bottom, not a sub...)' till you can't get past that.
The corrollary term, BTW, was 'cucumber', which i also sometimes use here. I like that one, 'cause it makes me think of that old joke list, 'HOw is a cucumber better than a man', and therefore it makes me giggle, to think of all the Doms in the room as 'cucumbers'.

Cali - I agree with the laziness part, and the 'how can we know what you or yours want'. I am not totally against the answers that come up of 'well, what do s/he or you want - try communicating' - although I also get that sometimes you just want some general answers to get your brain moving. But no one else can write the specifics for you.
But I see this attitude I am talking about alot in the lifestyle in general. With my last master, I wrote our contract. Someone out there right now is gasping and clutching his chest. A slave wrote her own contract! What's next!
But, ask a slave what she is willing to do for her Master, and she generally says, 'anything, Sir.' 'Whatever pleases you, Sir.' 'What do you want, Sir?' and poor Master is going, wow, that was very helpful, when it comes to writing this damn contract. Isn't it easier for me to write what I want and need and let him edit it? I am not saying slaves should always write the contract - I am saying there is nothing wrong with it, or any other form of the slave presenting what might gget done, ect. Communication requires that BOTH be willing to - well, speak up.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 11:52:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Tsatske, the problem I see with "what rituals or protocols should I suggest to please my master" or something of that sort... it's like asking someone, "what should I do to please myself?"  Well, ummm, how are we supposed to know?  What do you like to do? Do you like flowers? Then go take a walk in a meadow.  Are you allergic to bees?  Skip the meadow. 



I sort of see the point of this perspective, but still disagree with it. When I first came into this way of life, despite having watched from the sidelines for a number of years, I had a -lot- of questions. Many of my questions came out of simply not knowing what was available -- the huge breadth and depth of possibilities was pretty much unfathomable. I would ask questions like this of many of the people I encountered who had more experience than I did (though I didn't have the benefit of message boards until MUCH later in my experience). It wasn't that I didn't know what I liked... see... most of this I didn't -know- whether I'd like or not. I simply didn't even know what to ask for. I was looking for -ideas-... things to spark my own creativity, and things to let me know what the possibilities -were- that I hadn't even been able to wrap my brain around yet.

I don't think it's wrong or annoying to ask these questions, though I do agree that the people who think that someone is being annoying or wrong in asking shouldn't feel compelled to respond. [;)]



CatdeMedici -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 11:58:37 AM)

I'd be careful of hasty generalizations--as there are as many variables to relationship participation as there are snowflakes--though we do tend to fault what what we perceive as lazy Dominants---( not yours, I am simply saying what I've seen in past posts)--then we come back and say--what ever your model is, is your model.
 
go figure.



SailingBum -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 12:05:34 PM)

I must be missing the gist of this post.  Once in awhile my girl will say something like.. "how can I improve my service to you?"  I find it quite charming for her to think of our relationship in those terms.  That she is actively looking for ways to make my life easier.  What is not to like about that?

BadOne



wickedondine -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 12:06:28 PM)

I like this 'peach' business. Peaches are delicious.

Also- I'd rather have a sub- er, a peach, if you will- who can think for her/himself. The 'sit in the corner until called for' thing does nothing whatever from me. If I wanted a sub in a corner, gathering dust, that's where said sub would get put... But not for long!

It's better, IMO, to put yourself forward. The worst thing that can happen is you'll be told 'no' or 'do this other thing instead'.



zura -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 12:18:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

What is with this attitude that it is no longer neccassary - in fact, down right improper - for a slave/submissive or other peach to participate actively in their relationship?



I wish I knew how and why that idea ever became credible among submissives.  Being an involved participant doesn't signify that a sub is trying to take over the dominant role, nor that the Dominant is weak because the submissive actually has a mind and wants to use it.  It seems to me that a submissive who wants to be thoughtfully engaged in the relationship with his/her Dominant is seeking to please rather than not.



CreativeDominant -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 12:26:19 PM)

I've never quite understood how a relationship in which one party is so micromanaged that their input is neither welcome or allowed works for very long.

I state in my profile that in my relationship/dynamic there is room for two partners and one leader, that leader NOT being the submissive.  What that means simply is that I want input from my submissive, with her understanding that I will make the decision.  I always have the right to say no to what she asks for, I have the right to guide the conversations, I have the right to ask her to look inside herself and see what it is she wants and her reasons for wanting it before she comes to me BUT personally, I don't want a submissive in which I do all that for her.  An example:  I don't do brats.  I don't do SAMs.  I consider being in charge of my submissive's sexuality as one of my jobs/perks/control aspects.  She should understand that when I come to her and say something is going to happen sexually, then it is.  But, if she wants me to beat her/fuck her/hang her upside down and "please Sir, play Zippity Doo-Dah on my hanging breasts", then she should just come to me and ask.  I can say no if I don't wish to do it or do it then or to modify it.  But, I would rather have her indicate that she desires me OUTSIDE of scene once in awhile rather than only have her indicate desire for what I do/can do when we are inside a scene.  Hell, let's face it...it could be argued that part of her submissive nature would almost require her to express desirability for me INSIDE a scene.  Expression of it outside a scene...unbidden and unforced and uncommanded...comes as a welcome part of the day.



DavanKael -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 12:27:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zura

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

What is with this attitude that it is no longer neccassary - in fact, down right improper - for a slave/submissive or other peach to participate actively in their relationship?



I wish I knew how and why that idea ever became credible among submissives.  Being an involved participant doesn't signify that a sub is trying to take over the dominant role, nor that the Dominant is weak because the submissive actually has a mind and wants to use it.  It seems to me that a submissive who wants to be thoughtfully engaged in the relationship with his/her Dominant is seeking to please rather than not.



Extremely well-stated, zura, imo.  Enthusiasm, responsiveness, etc. needn't, in any way, connote to attempting to usurp Dominance from a Master; in fact, it could easily be seen as quite the compliment to the Master in that the s-type is so engaged in the relationship that they are attempting to be especially in-tune.  Balance. 
  Davan



LadyPact -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 1:12:06 PM)

Sorry to be the person of descent, but I have to take exception with the peach and cucumber idea.  I couldn't see clip as a peach and the only cucumber I have  I can put on and take off.

With that part aside, I really have a question, more than a comment.  If a D-type didn't ever want any input from a s-type, exactly why chose that one in the first place?



agirl -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 1:21:57 PM)

.....and then again there are relationships that work that way because it's really the best and most efficient way for those concerned.

M doesn't care for me looking for ways to serve him or please him.  He is perfectly capable of asking for anything as and when he wants it and we wouldn't have lasted all these years if I wasted energy trying to second guess what he wants.

I wouldn't present myself for sexual use.......I am already ready for sexual use. He doesn't need me to waggle my naked arse in his face for him to know something we both already know. I AM his property and he CAN use me as and when he wants to. It's faintly insulting to remind of something he's already is aware of..lol.

It's not my job to get his 'juices flowing' , he seems to manage that all by himself, along with most things. If he WANTS me to present myself in some way he asks me to. Easy really, isn't it?

I'm not sure where the *do me* bit comes in.

Working at my relationship doesn't include me doing stuff that isn't called for. I obey what there is to obey, I do what is asked of me to do ( generally..not always...lol)

Have you considered that some guys are content to be with their sub and already know what the possibilities are, know what they want, know how to get it without having it shoved in their faces?
As far as we are concerned, that's what him being in control means.

agirl










FlamingRedhead -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 1:23:15 PM)

The problem with trying to "help" people is that we usually have very little background information, and the majority of questions posed are of the ilk, "How do I get him to do this? or What should I do?"  The information we give is, of course, biased because of our own relationship dynamics and experiences.
 
For instance, my experiences have taught me that anything other than direct communication with him and him alone regarding relationship issues is not welcome nor appreciated and seen as being manipulative (probably because I'm trying to get him to do what I want without actually asking/talking to him).  He does not take kindly to being excluded from decision-making or pushed to make a decision instantly.  I can do whatever I think will please him, though.  He'll let me know if it does or doesn't....or whether he thinks I have ulterior motives.  *smiles*
 
Can't a girl just do something nice?  *tries to look all innocent and shit*
 
Yeah, I really gotta work on that look....



DesFIP -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 1:42:13 PM)

An additional thought. Learned helplessness. If you try to do things hoping he will be pleased, and consistently get shot down and told off, you will learn that it is best not to say or suggest or do anything except be passive.

The problem with this is that if you want the peach to be sexually aroused, this isn't the way to get that result. If you prefer using your peach even if she's staring at the ceiling contemplating painting it ivory, then it isn't a problem. If you want her hot and whimpering, it is one. How you structure the relationship depends on what you want out of it.

Me coming out naked, draping myself over his knee always gets a grin and an enthusiastic response but that's because he wants me to be aroused. If he got off more on the total control, and not on having an enthusiastic partner, he would shut this down pretty quick. Of course, since I don't get off on this, I would have shut down the possibility of a relationship first.



starshineowned -> RE: How can I give you what is already yours? (12/11/2008 2:09:36 PM)

Greetings..

quote:

  And a risk on my part - he might not like it, might say, 'don't do that again.' But, for a chance to please him - SO WORTH the risk.



I tend to go the opposite on this. The less I give Master a reason to tell me "dont do this again" the more pleasing I am. Ofcourse there are times he does have to say that..but it's due to something I've not encountered before.

The way things are suggested or asked makes a big difference in alot of dynamics and how they are set up. I don't go in and say: Master I need to be beaten. I may crawl in naked put the cane in my mouth, kneel at his feet and waggle with a smile on my face. I've conveyed the need which I'm suppose to do without demanding anything as thats not my place. What happens after that can and usually differs all the time.

starshine



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