Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 4:17:12 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		An incident that occured the last time I played coupled with an incident that happened a week later has been going round and round in my head and making me think and wonder.

I went to friend's house the afternoon of the last party I went to to hang out and visit and ended up just riding with them to the party from there. Anyway, he was showing myself and another friend one of his new toys, a very evil, thick, split rubber strap and with my ok tested it on the top of each of my legs. The second hit, he really laid it on and I didn't make a sound or show pain in my expression or in any way at all apparently. It hurt let me tell you. It felt like fire and damn near took my breath away.

As the conversation and the usual joking and teasing continued, he commented that he must be losing his touch or the toy wasn't as evil as he'd thought since I didn't even seem to feel it or react. I looked at him and said, "Are you kidding me? It fucking hurt like hell!!" The look on his face at that was so surprised and shocked. He couldn't believe it could have hurt like I said and yet not make me react.

A week later, after Thanksgiving, I took my family to see their father and siblings and their father got extremely drunk and caused emotional distress to the family I took there and extra, heavy emotional distress to one of them in particular. He then later tried to get that person to talk to him and they did not want to, still very upset and hurt. I calmly said to please let them alone until they calmed down and were ready to talk. He then exploded with the usual verbal abuse he always heaped on me when we were together and threatened me and raised his fist to me.

So those incidents have had me doing a lot of thinking and trying to puzzle it out. I've been looking back over the years at a lot of different things that have happened in my life and I'm seeing a pattern develop that I didn't see before, didn't really think about before.

I have mentioned before on the boards and in my blogs that I was in 2 abusive relationships as an adult. I was also abused in much younger days. The common thread in all of that was that the quieter I was and the less I reacted, the quicker it was over with and the less damage was done. If I tried to fight back or got upset and really reacted, it spurred the abuser on to do more and worse. It's making me think and believe with hindsight that I've been conditioned over a long period of time to take what's dished out no matter how much or how bad or intense with as little noise and visible reaction as I can manage.

Now I do at times make noise, and verbally and physically react during play, but it takes a lot of intensity for me to show reaction to pain. I show reaction to tickling and fun and good stimulation much faster than to pain. I also tend to when I'm not feeling bad, hide or distance myself and avoid people until I am feeling better again. The old suffer in silence, I suppose.

Do you think I've hit on it? I believve I have. Does it seem as though I've been conditioned in my reactions and lack thereof to pain by events and situations throughout my life? Do others of you have similar experience with this?


_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 4:30:29 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Yup

Did you really need me to say it for you to know it?

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 5:14:40 PM   
Aszhrae


Posts: 1030
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline 		Girl believes that when we are younger, depending on the situation, tend to react much more easily and emotionally. As we get older, our skin becomes a little thicker. Some things that used to cause an immediate reaction take a little longer to affect the older sub/slaves. Not really all that rebellious having learned our place when we were younger.
Not to say that there are things that can get under our skin or even push our buttons. But, the older sub/slaves tend to deal with it differently. Nasty or particularly offensive play will get a much faster reaction if the sub/slave is unaccustomed to what is happening.
Personal example: Girl can bend over a bench and take a hundred licks of leather belt and no reaction, but with hand, girl is lucky to get to ten before she starts squirming or trying to get away. Girl take humiliation from my mistress but not from current master. It is just my nature. (Honestly: bad days, wouldn't mind string a few guys up by their ankles and lashing them into submission, other times, just feel better to just avoidance is the best thing to do towards men.)
My point is, everyone reacts to pain differently than others. Some sources of pain, we become used too and can control it as you had, but when someone raises their fist at you in a hostile gesture that is not part of your chosen lifestyle, the reaction is not controlled. You want to defend, strike back and subdue.
Girl sees nothing wrong with your behavior. Believes it is completely natural and yes, quite possibly a result of conditioning.

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 5:14:43 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		Nope, but it's still nice to hear feedback from others . I've been thinking on this so much since the incidents happened and when I hit on what I did, it made me wonder what others thought and if they had similar experiences.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 5:17:24 PM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		the only time in the world i become unresponsive to pain, is in an abusive situation; my mind and body do not shut down at the same time, regardless of my past conditioning, or should i say, they don't shut down unless i feel like my well-being and safety is being jeopardized.

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 5:32:20 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

Girl believes that when we are younger, depending on the situation, tend to react much more easily and emotionally. As we get older, our skin becomes a little thicker. Some things that used to cause an immediate reaction take a little longer to affect the older sub/slaves. Not really all that rebellious having learned our place when we were younger.
My point is, everyone reacts to pain differently than others. Some sources of pain, we become used too and can control it as you had, but when someone raises their fist at you in a hostile gesture that is not part of your chosen lifestyle, the reaction is not controlled. You want to defend, strike back and subdue.
Girl sees nothing wrong with your behavior. Believes it is completely natural and yes, quite possibly a result of conditioning.



What do you classify as younger vs older? I'm curious. I know that from the first time I ever played, I've reacted in the same way as described throughout my OP to pain.

Oh I am fully aware and fully agree that everyone reacts differently to pain. I see proof of that a lot.

As to the pain, etc. outside bdsm...the abuse or assault, dealing with that is where my conditioning is coming from. I learned to keep my mouth shut and take it and quietly get away as soon as possible to protect myself. I react similarly to pain outside of bdsm as I do in it with only a very few exceptions such as a toothache or earache which will floor me and have me whimpering and crying.

Now, if someone actually takes the first strike be it punching or kicking, I'm at the point finally that I will let loose on them; and a slap in the face triggers a very quick reaction instantly in me of attacking back which is why it is a limit for me as I do not wish to go to jail for assault. If someone goes after one or more of my 4 family members physically then again, I will attack back and protect my family.

Thanks for your reply .

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to Aszhrae)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 5:36:51 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds

the only time in the world i become unresponsive to pain, is in an abusive situation; my mind and body do not shut down at the same time, regardless of my past conditioning, or should i say, they don't shut down unless i feel like my well-being and safety is being jeopardized.


I know it took me a long time after I got out of the last abusive relationship to get to the point where in certain instances as mentioned in an above post, I will fight back and go on the attack. It depends on the situation as far as abuse goes as to which way I will react.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to daddysliloneds)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 5:45:49 PM   
Aszhrae


Posts: 1030
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline 		What do you classify as younger vs older?

Girl reacted much differently to pain when 18 as to how girl reacts now. It takes much more effort with one type and little effort by other means.

Now, if someone actually takes the first strike be it punching or kicking, I'm at the point finally that I will let loose on them; and a slap in the face triggers a very quick reaction instantly in me of attacking back which is why it is a limit for me as I do not wish to go to jail for assault. If someone goes after one or more of my 4 family members physically then again, I will attack back and protect my family.

Same with family and mistress in a public place. Girl doesn't care if she gets charged. They assaulted family member or mistress, girl will react much more quickly than how girl reacted to violence against me 18 years ago.

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 6:56:24 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

Nope, but it's still nice to hear feedback from others . I've been thinking on this so much since the incidents happened and when I hit on what I did, it made me wonder what others thought and if they had similar experiences.

Fair enough... but for once I think my psychoanalysis would be out of place... I think you've already had your epiphany and rather than possibly muddy it with my own ideas you'd be better off exploring what you seem to already very clearly know.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 7:15:44 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Here is more validation... yep, you may have hit upon one reason that explains your behavior.

One of my conditioned responses, that he is trying to reverse, is when he uses a paddle I start sobbing.  It has been several years now and each time he picks up that fucking paddle and with the first smack I am sobbing.  Just this past weekend, the image that popped into my mind when he used it was my mom and the leather shoe she would use to spank me with. 

A paddle brings me back to those moments of "not being a good girl" and of disappointing an authority figure.  I am getting better though.  I still cry but I don't need as much reassurance that I have been 'good' either during or after.  It might take quite some time to stop crying, if I ever do.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 7:23:35 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		See now that just makes me so very curious. I must have a bit of kitty in me .

Why do you think it would be out of place or muddy my epiphany by giving your opinion? I never expect everyone to agree with me or see what I see on things or think the same way. I've always valued the thoughts and opinions of others and even more so when I ask for them, good or bad, agree or disagree. It's a part of how I learn and grow. I listen or read, think on it and take what resonates with me, leaving the rest, but still thinking on it to see if it fits at a different time or circumstance or would help someone else who believes differently than me.

I've read numerous posts of your in the years I've been here and there are those that have struck a cord with me, those I've learned from, and those that didn't fit for me and those that have made me think. Because of that, it really does make me curious on why you feel it might be wrong to post your thoughts on this. Thanks for jumping in here . Have a great evening.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 7:33:23 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae


Girl reacted much differently to pain when 18 as to how girl reacts now. It takes much more effort with one type and little effort by other means.


Same with family and mistress in a public place. Girl doesn't care if she gets charged. They assaulted family member or mistress, girl will react much more quickly than how girl reacted to violence against me 18 years ago.




Ok, thanks for clarifying that for me. I reacted somewhat differently to pain at and around that age, but not a major amount different. The conditioning had already been happening to a degree by then and in the years since got more intense.

Oh yeah...if someone is dumb enough to go after my family, that's it. I will protect them no matter the consequences to me. If they go after me, it depends on the circumstance as to how I react.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to Aszhrae)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 7:48:04 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Because my opinions usually take the form of very analytical deconstructions of the hows and whys of things irregardless of the feelings of those involved.  Most of the time I don't hesitate about that because in all honestly... most of the time I don't give a damn.  But every once in awhile I come across something that I think is just better left alone.  You had a personal experience, you've already sorted it out and been exploring both what it means to you and your own feelings about it.  Nothing I can say can answer that.  You also seem to be looking to connect with others with similiar experiences... again, emotional connections.  I can't offer that either.  My father never abused me, if someone hurts me my first reaction is usually to hurt them back... except in unusual circumstances.

I doubt deconstructing your experience would do any good, at the least it won't tell you anything you don't already know.  On the other hand, not rationally vivisecting it might be the better choice.

Call it a silent respect.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 8:00:33 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Here is more validation... yep, you may have hit upon one reason that explains your behavior.

One of my conditioned responses, that he is trying to reverse, is when he uses a paddle I start sobbing.  It has been several years now and each time he picks up that fucking paddle and with the first smack I am sobbing.  Just this past weekend, the image that popped into my mind when he used it was my mom and the leather shoe she would use to spank me with. 

A paddle brings me back to those moments of "not being a good girl" and of disappointing an authority figure.  I am getting better though.  I still cry but I don't need as much reassurance that I have been 'good' either during or after.  It might take quite some time to stop crying, if I ever do.

Knight's Kyra



So far, no toy ever used on me has triggered me like that, but there was an incident at our group's last campout in September that did. It was a major event for us as we had Jack Rinella and Jay Wiseman there for this. On the last day towards evening, we were still packing and loading to leave. Jack and Patrick had left earlier for their flight home, but Jay wanted to stay and hang out longer before going to his hotel by the airport for the night.

He was at a nearby campsite visiting with a couple and I went to go ask him what time he wanted to leave as I was his ride out and as I got to the small parking lot, a car pulled in with 3 people in it. Our area was still reserved til the next day, so no one except those involved in the campout were to come to the camp are and it was posted.

At least 2 of the people in the car were very drunk and staggering around and wanting to take pictures. I went and got security and told them what I'd seen and went back up with them. One of the 2 that were drunk was by then passed out in the car, but the other was still staggering and determined to take pictures of a specific site in the area.

It was calmly explained to him that the area was reserved and the people did not want pictures taken of them or the area while they were still there. He became very belligerant and it triggered me because of my ex's attitude and actions to me when he was drinking.

I was sent to warn the couple Jay was visiting with about what was going on because that was the area the guy wanted to take pics at. I was upset and it showed. Jay, the couple and security worked together to finally get the people to leave and it came very close to blows before they were able to which made it even worse. It took me a long time to calm down after that and be able to function ok again. I was shaking so bad and couldn't think beyond was I going to get attacked.

I guess that shows a little of different things triggering different people.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 8:05:15 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		Padriag, my sincere thanks to you.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 8:45:39 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Welcome... now stop it before you ruin my image. I'm supposed to be this aloof, analytical, hard ass.  Takes an enormous amount of work and energy you know... years of cultivation... dedication... sacrifice...

Oh... and your story... definitely would have triggered a different response in me.  I'm thinking all the toys likely laying around would have come in very handy.  And since Mr shutterbug was so fond of pics, heck... let him star in his very own photo shoot!  Wonder if Jay would have helped with the demo?

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 9:10:24 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Laughing...I thought the title was "Conditioning Reflected in Your Response to Palin"!

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 9:33:36 PM   
Aszhrae


Posts: 1030
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline 		That's okay Padriag, girl understands.


*whispers* girl will not tell anyone that you actually have a heart beating in your chest. Shhhhhhh.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 9:48:32 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Welcome... now stop it before you ruin my image. I'm supposed to be this aloof, analytical, hard ass.  Takes an enormous amount of work and energy you know... years of cultivation... dedication... sacrifice...

Oh... and your story... definitely would have triggered a different response in me.  I'm thinking all the toys likely laying around would have come in very handy.  And since Mr shutterbug was so fond of pics, heck... let him star in his very own photo shoot!  Wonder if Jay would have helped with the demo?


*Nods* Yes I can see that it would. Did you take college courses to help you better achieve your aloof, analytical hardassness or was it strictly by self motivated studying of AAH books and practicing what you read? Do you have a degree in it? 

Oh how wonderfully sadistic! I do like how your mind works. Actually Jay ended up physically putting the guy back into the backseat of the car and locking him in after he jumped out of it while it was moving and started back toward the parking lot. We had plenty of rope and I'm sure Jay would have taken over that end of things in the event of your idea coming to fruition lol.



_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/11/2008 9:53:49 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		*cracks up at LaM* Oops! I'm bad like that too.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.111