RE: A third party in US politics

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: A third party in US politics

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: A third party in US politics

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 [4] 5 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 6:41:57 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

Still, that the believers in individualism and absence of government should rely on party organisation and stucture to spread the word to the masses is deliciously ironic :-) .

_____________________________

(in reply to bestbabync)

Profile

Post #: 61

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 6:52:43 AM

bestbabync

Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline

sorry to disappoint, but there are many that believe "Government get out of the way!" one example, social security! the system/party politics you believe in has bankrupted that program with the big government control and spending.

what a success!

< Message edited by bestbabync -- 12/16/2008 6:53:18 AM >

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to kittinSol)

Profile

Post #: 62

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 6:54:15 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

You never disappoint, baby. Each time you speak, it's illuminating :-) .

_____________________________

(in reply to bestbabync)

Profile

Post #: 63

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 6:59:17 AM

bestbabync

Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline

every time you speak you insult someone

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to kittinSol)

Profile

Post #: 64

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 8:05:01 AM

Aynne88

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline

Woosh!

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You never disappoint, baby. Each time you speak, it's illuminating :-) .

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)

(in reply to kittinSol)

Profile

Post #: 65

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 9:23:55 AM

philosophy

Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

"Third parties are like bees--once they sting, they die."

Third parties exist in this country, but they function as an "advance guard" for ideas that ultimately get subsumed by one or the other of the two major parties, as either the Democrats or Republicans will co-opt ideas, policies, and programs of third parties that gain traction with the broader electorate.

...i've seen this happen in the UK. some years back the Green party had a surprisingly good showing in a European Parliament election. The very next year the three main parties all had an enhanced environmental element to their platform.

However, what has struck me from the more serious responses to the OP is the idea that the media have a large amount of control over the influence any party can wield. As the internet becomes more pervasive, is it possible that a third party could rise to power through a purely grassroots campaign? Haven't there already been examples of politicians in the USA who have gained office, but eschewed the usual media outlets in favour of internet campaigning?

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Profile

Post #: 66

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 9:26:38 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

Perhaps the U.S. are moving towards one party.

One Party to rule them all, One Party to find them,
One Party to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

Mouahahahahahaha

_____________________________

(in reply to philosophy)

Profile

Post #: 67

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 2:45:08 PM

rachel529

Posts: 197
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline

kittin, we are already there.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Profile

Post #: 68

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 3:27:54 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

Glad you got the double-edged joke.

_____________________________

(in reply to rachel529)

Profile

Post #: 69

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 6:10:27 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Still, that the believers in individualism and absence of government should rely on party organisation and stucture to spread the word to the masses is deliciously ironic :-) .

Libertarianism is about limited government not absence of government, but you know that, already.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Profile

Post #: 70

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 6:40:35 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

The Libertarians are Republicans Lite: hardly a 'third party'.

_____________________________

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Profile

Post #: 71

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 7:37:09 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

How so?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

The Libertarians are Republicans Lite: hardly a 'third party'.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to kittinSol)

Profile

Post #: 72

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 8:15:03 PM

rachel529

Posts: 197
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline

truthfully it sickens me people believe that. i wish libertarians would man up and vote libertarian. then we would have our third party. the problem is, no government willingly gives up power. remember- all a national government should do is 1:maintain currency 2:provide national defense 3: maintain the border. how does that dovetail into republican kittin?

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Profile

Post #: 73

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 8:32:01 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

The Libertarians are Republicans Lite: hardly a 'third party'.

Not really, anyway, the discussion was about libertarians, you responded to someone speaking of libertarians, and said they wanted the absence of government, which is untrue. Now, they are Republican Lite?

If you are going to just make things up on the fly, at least have the courtesy to be consistent. As Republicans in these days given the last 8 years are more big government than Democrats at minimum they are on par with the democrats. There is a obvious contradiction between your statements.

Me thinks, you just say anything about stuff you don't like.

(Me above is intentional, just to head off the grammar Nazis)

< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 12/16/2008 8:33:16 PM >

(in reply to kittinSol)

Profile

Post #: 74

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/16/2008 10:26:58 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

What would it need to create a third party in US politics? One that actually stood a chance of holding some power. What kind of thing would be in its manifesto? Is there room in the US political spectrum?

      There is all kinds of room in the spectrum for third parties, Phil. Not just the Libertarians (Republicans LITE, Kitten? Do you know anything at all about them?)   We have everything from neo-pinko's to theocrats running around, mostly with highly misleading party names. My personal theory is that the Green's call themselves that because they figure all the green in my wallet, that I worked for, should be passed out to benefit those who didn't.

      Getting a third party to power is something else. Chances are, they will draw more support from one party than another, splitting either the liberal/conservative bloc and handing the win to the other side. In the U.S. '92 election, Bill Clinton won with 58%-ish voting for a much more conservative platform than he was offering. So much for whatever it was Perot-vians called themselves

      To make it happen, realistically, you would need several things. First and essential would be a friendly press. Right behind that, you would need a competent and articulate grassroots movement NOT composed of people who figure more than a weekly shower to be optional (are you listening, Ron Paul?). A charismatic figurehead who at least seems very likable. A message that resonates with a lot more people than it alienates.

     One way we could get something moving to really change our party system would be with a change to proportional representation in the House, and a requirement of run-offs to a majority for Senate seats and the votes of the Electoral College.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to philosophy)

Profile

Post #: 75

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/17/2008 5:47:34 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

The collective indignation above says it all

.

_____________________________

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Profile

Post #: 76

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/17/2008 6:25:15 AM

Thunderbird56

Posts: 87
Joined: 11/19/2005
Status: offline

Wow, what to say? Some good discussion here and some not so good. For my part, America *must* have a viable 3rd party ... obviously the "dual monopoly" that the Dems and Reps have held for the last 60-70 years or more isn't getting the job done. Obviously.

No, that's not quite right. They *are* getting the job done ... but it's the job of corruption, greed, malfeasance, and favoritism, and we the people are paying for it. Again and again and again.

I am a Libertarian, so I would like to see the Libertarian Party rise to become that viable 3rd party. It wouldn't take much. Imagine just 40-50 in the House, 8-10 in the Senate? So much crap legislation could be killed and defeated. Anything to drive a wedge between the Democons and Republicrats.

I've said this before, neither 'side' really cares which one of them has the White House or the majorities ... not really. Just so long as it is one of them! Sure, they'd *like* to hold the balance of power, but as long as it's one of them, the other side knows they will still have some power and the chance for more power another day.

What they are *really* afraid of is a viable 3rd party that could come along and upset their whole applecart.

"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us". Gandalf the Gray

(in reply to kittinSol)

Profile

Post #: 77

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/17/2008 6:36:05 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

As the internet becomes more pervasive, is it possible that a third party could rise to power through a purely grassroots campaign?

In theory, it's quite possible.

However, the structure of government in the US strongly favors two dominant political parties. Unlike parliamentary systems, where the chief executive is the leader of whatever party assembles a majority within the legislature, the President is elected independently of Congressional majorities. Thus, the structural oppositions are not inter-party but inter-organizational: not Liberal vs Conservative but Legislative vs Executive (and in the last 40 years, the overwhelming tendency is for Congress and the Presidency to reside in differing political parties). Effective opposition to a President draws politicians into a single opposing party, and effective support for a President likewise coalesces into a single supporting party.

As a result, while a third political party could conceivably arise and capture a broad segment of the electorate, it would only gain significant political power (especially at the national level) if one or the other of the two dominant parties disintegrated, or if the two dominant parties fell jointly into a political center and became, in effect, one party. Absent such a scenario, the rising popularity of a third party would be met with adaptation by two dominant parties, and the policies and ideas of said third party would be absorbed by one or the other of the dominant parties.

_____________________________

(in reply to philosophy)

Profile

Post #: 78

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/18/2008 5:35:47 PM

Truthiness

Posts: 251
Joined: 11/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

I am absolutely willing to wager that my knowledge of politics surpasses anyone that believes that tripe.

Unfortunately, that puts you well into the minority. I mean, the fact that 60% of Obama voters couldn't even tell you what party controlled Congress is telling.

(in reply to Aynne88)

Profile

Post #: 79

RE: A third party in US politics - 12/18/2008 5:40:16 PM

Truthiness

Posts: 251
Joined: 11/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
As Republicans in these days given the last 8 years are more big government than Democrats at minimum they are on par with the democrats. There is a obvious contradiction between your statements.

Quoting for truth. That's one of the amusingly ironic things about the US government right now...Bush was one of the most economically liberal presidents in the history of the country. Virtually every problem that came his way, he answered with bigger government and more spending.

So...America's response to that? Let's get rid of him and put in someone equally if not more economically liberal! That'll change things!

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Profile

Post #: 80