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RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 6:33:23 AM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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~FR~
Exactly what erin has said! Obeying even when I haven't necessarily wanted to has meant more to both of us because He knew it was "hard" (for lack of a better word) to do. I have found I'm absolutely capable of obeying to the best of my ability even when my opinion on a matter has been in conflict with His. That's when it's really beautiful. Obeying when you totally agree can be done by anyone. Obeying when you'd rather not is "weal, twue" obedience IMO

.................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 21

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 6:49:55 AM

rabinyaZharovna

Posts: 106
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: rabinyaZharovna
it doesn't mean that all brain function has ceased to exist... it means absolute acceptance without argument, without cajoling, without digs, without scowls, without manipulations, it means acceptance... faith.. obedience.

Not sure if you meant to imply that you can't have an opinion and have that opinion matter while still obeying and accepting or not. I know that my opinion and feelings always matter to him and I can certainly have one, even a conflicting one, while still obeying and accepting...without having to resort to any of that topping from the bottom-y stuff that you mentioned.

Yep, that's what I meant. I always have an opinion, I always have feelings... how can any human being not? That's what I mean about people seeming to confuse blind obedience with a ceasing of brain function. Does he always know my feelings etc.. yes. Do they always matter in his decision? No. Is that were obedience comes in and faith? yes. Do I harp on about them to him? No. I state, He opts to account for them or not, I accept. It isn't, generally a lengthy process, unless He is trying to sort out my feelings on something and then some exploration is needed and then, again, once sorted, they are either used in His decision or not. He knows me well enough to generally know what my thoughts or feelings will be on anything, he either wishes to actually discuss them or not... and then chooses to go with them or not. If it's something that will be hard for me he takes that into account, He recognizes it either verbally or through action, but it doesn't change His direction or my acceptance. This ranges from parenting, to financial matters, to caning.

_____________________________

In making me nothing, He makes me everything

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 22

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 7:08:02 AM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

..."where my will doesn't count and my opinion doesn't matter, i simply obey"

I have heard this from more than a few potential submissives, slaves...

Is this really an achieveable state with a submissive, slave? Is it realistic? Do people, can people really blindly put their faith in another human being regardless if they agree with the consequences?

In my former relationship, his will and opinions came first. This does not mean mine didn't matter; he wanted to know them, but he still ultimately decided whatever it was that needed deciding. He wanted to know my will and opinions because how better to manage his slave than by knowing what made her tick? Sometimes my opinions would influence his decisions; often times they did not. That's what I signed up for, and that's what we both wanted.

As for this blind faith you speak of...to me, blind faith is putting faith in someone or something without knowing who or what it is I am putting my faith in. I may as well walk up to a stranger and have faith in him. So no, I did not have "blind faith." I knew him, his values, his thought processes, and what made him tick. Yes, I had faith in that. And yes, I put my faith in him, even though I knew I might not always enjoy the consequences.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 23

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 7:10:28 AM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

I agree with Aileen...about track record.

*my mouse is messed up, can't copy/paste her comment lol.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 24

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 7:12:54 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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An additional thought about this...

It isn't just a mindset for a submissive/slave. There is also a counter mindset that the dominant must have. The dominant must be willing to do what they want even when their partner strongly disagrees with them or really doesn't want to do it. It is easy to order a submissive to do things that they enjoy doing or want to do, but can they expect a submissive to do things they don't want to do or don't like doing? If they want a submissive to be in this mindset, they have to be willing to follow through when it isn't going to be so easy.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 25

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 7:42:47 AM

rabinyaZharovna

Posts: 106
Joined: 4/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

An additional thought about this...

It isn't just a mindset for a submissive/slave. There is also a counter mindset that the dominant must have. The dominant must be willing to do what they want even when their partner strongly disagrees with them or really doesn't want to do it. It is easy to order a submissive to do things that they enjoy doing or want to do, but can they expect a submissive to do things they don't want to do or don't like doing? If they want a submissive to be in this mindset, they have to be willing to follow through when it isn't going to be so easy.

Knight's Kyra

I couldn't agree more!

_____________________________

In making me nothing, He makes me everything

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 26

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 8:13:30 AM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

It's not an extreme I encourage, because there is certain conditions and contigencies present where they are required to disobey me.

If I order them to do anything that would result in physical or psychological harm to them.
If I order them to do anything that would result in physical or psychological harm to another.
If the very rare situation is present when I have allowed my emotions to get the better of me and am clearly not thinking rationally and therefore not capable of making a good decision. (I trust my self control and self discipline, but I have to make allowances for the fact that I am not a perfect human being).
If I am suffering from some kind of ailment that is impairing or affecting my mental state.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 12/18/2008 8:17:24 AM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 27

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 8:25:25 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici
..."where my will doesn't count and my opinion doesn't matter, i simply obey"

I have heard this from more than a few potential submissives, slaves...

Is this really an achieveable state with a submissive, slave? Is it realistic? Do people, can people really blindly put their faith in another human being regardless if they agree with the consequences?

Obedience requires action, and action requires will.

This ideal is not only unrealistic, it is a contradiction in terms. To me, it sounds as if the putative s-type is looking to evade responsibility for the choices he or she makes--including the choice to submit, and then to obey.

Submission, obedience, trust--these are all choices made by the individual. The consequences of these choices are borne by the individual, as the responsibility for these choices is solely on the individual.

Thus, the s-type's will and opinion not only matter, they are directly relevant to every action within the dynamic and the relationship.

_____________________________

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 28

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 8:40:29 AM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

Call me jaded if you will, but whenever I have heard this from someone new to me or a stranger to me, I have found that they were either a total mess in life, stuck in fantasy or downright lying to manipulate someone's interest. I also found that they poof... change profiles often and come back at me... same email, different name. Do I believe it can happen? Oh yes... Many here seem to be living this way. I don't seek it, so maybe I am not finding it, but I do get a lot of email that starts out like that. So I will challenge it. I won't right off the bat (hehe, most the time) challenge it in directing them... but I will ask challenging questions, but lately I simply ignore their email because I have found that few are coming from a place I would consider appealing.

I have been noticing that those who I have taken a little time to know, who claim to be slave or state that they wish for something with me and are very obediant... tend to hold some life wounds pretty deep and they become passive aggressive very quickly if something said brushes against that wound.

I think the person... at least male submissive's in my experience with their online contact, who is actually healthy minded and can really do this is rare. In fact, I have never met one. It may be different if in building a relationship of some sort and it evolves into this. That I can see happening very well... but right off the bat... red flag to me.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 29

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 9:03:09 AM

Masterkspet

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

..."where my will doesn't count and my opinion doesn't matter, i simply obey"

I have heard this from more than a few potential submissives, slaves...

Is this really an achieveable state with a submissive, slave? Is it realistic? Do people, can people really blindly put their faith in another human being regardless if they agree with the consequences?

No. No matter how much I love and trust another person. "I" am ultimately responsible for all my choices and because of that if something doesn't feel right or correct to me I will not ignore those feelings. I prefer to think of it as personal responsibility.
Do I defer decisions to my Master? Of course I do. But he also respects my opinion and would never expect me to give up absolute control to him over an issue I felt strongly about.

scarlet

_____________________________

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." - Buddha

previous posts under scarlethiney

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 30

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 9:03:39 AM

MISTRESSKUMA

Posts: 226
Joined: 8/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

..."where my will doesn't count and my opinion doesn't matter, i simply obey"

I have heard this from more than a few potential submissives, slaves...

Is this really an achieveable state with a submissive, slave? Is it realistic? Do people, can people really blindly put their faith in another human being regardless if they agree with the consequences?

Since as little boys, men by instinct follow Women and Women are great at guiding men, and grounding men and inspiring men. And men are most happy when they get approval of Women that their actions pleased the Woman. The most important thing is this, he just needs to find the right Female Dominant so it depends on the personality of the guider/nurturer/leader Woman and whether they love the person the way they are and gently guide him to be a better man for her or if they are a control freak who sees everything in black and white and thinks their way of doing things is the only way it can be done so they end up smothering or patronizing and I pretty much have rule of thumb for this, you should stay away and show them the big road. Can't beat that.

< Message edited by MISTRESSKUMA -- 12/18/2008 9:04:16 AM >

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 31

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 9:53:37 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

sure it's possible. especially if one has any military or military-style training to draw from.

this slave's opinion matters when and if Master chooses for it to, depending on the topic, situation or circumstance. there are a few things that this slave has a keener knowledge of than Master---not much, but a few things.

He requests her input, from time to time, and she gives it...to the best of her ability.

what this slave has found most important, is the talent to express an opinion, in a way that is pleasing. for some, it is as easy as breathing in and out, but as someone with priors in bad verbal communication skills, it is something this slave has worked hard on to change...and continues to work on at present.

this slave came from the "speak when spoken to" method of training, when learning to communicate. smarmy snideness, heavy sighs with or without rolling eyes, sarcasm, hand on hip as well as whining were all forbidden---or else. much better for everyone involved just to keep it to yourself and ALWAYS think before you either speak or ask permission to speak.

as far as the "will" thing goes...this slave's will is to make Him giggle every day, to be pleasing to Him in all things, to obey His will/desires/rules and to enhance His life in the doing of it.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 32

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 9:54:42 AM

mc1234

Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline

I suppose some achieve this state. I quibble a bit with your wording. I want to know my opinion matters to my Master. I want to share our thoughts and viewpoints. I also want to obey when he makes the decision for us. But I want to be heard by him. If what he decides goes against my view - so be it. But I will know then that I don't have blind faith - I have faith which is grounded and real and solid. I will know him well enough to trust in his actions and to obey. And I think this takes time to develop that type of trust.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 33

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 10:30:56 AM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

quote:

"where my will doesn't count and my opinion doesn't matter, i simply obey"

The trust is there. I have no need nor desire to pit my will against Masters.

My opinions on matters are of more importance to him to hear than they are of importance to me to share. They like everything else belong to him as well.

starshine

so he tells you what to wear, how to vote, what spiritual beliefs to have, who to see, who not to see?

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 34

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 10:33:08 AM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

An additional thought about this...

It isn't just a mindset for a submissive/slave. There is also a counter mindset that the dominant must have. The dominant must be willing to do what they want even when their partner strongly disagrees with them or really doesn't want to do it. It is easy to order a submissive to do things that they enjoy doing or want to do, but can they expect a submissive to do things they don't want to do or don't like doing? If they want a submissive to be in this mindset, they have to be willing to follow through when it isn't going to be so easy.

Knight's Kyra

a stellar post Kyra---and it must be consistent, if you want the responsibility, it cannot be only when the D feels like it!

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 35

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 10:42:33 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici
so he tells you what to wear, how to vote, what spiritual beliefs to have, who to see, who not to see?

This was not asked of me, but the answer to all of them is he has the authority within the relationship to dictate all of these things and many more. At present he has not told me who I will vote for or what religion I will practice, but if he ever decides that he wants to, then he can.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 36

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 10:47:04 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici
and it must be consistent, if you want the responsibility, it cannot be only when the D feels like it!

Thank you.

I do not agree with what I quoted above, especially in regards to my relationship. There are times that he chooses to make decisions based on what I or Alandra may prefer and he does not prefer. If he can't change his mind and do something different when he feels like it, then I don't really see that as being dominant. He defines the structure of our relationship; the structure of the relationship does not define what choices he will make. It requires a hell of a lot of flexibility on mine and Alandra's part. Adapting is one of the challenges that I enjoy meeting.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 37

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 11:11:21 AM

HisBitchx

Posts: 6
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline

I would have to know them a little first..

_____________________________

-Hannah
(Submissive and Owned)

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 38

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 11:14:00 AM

FullfigRIMAAM1

Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline

I believe it's possible when 2 people are well matched. I don't believe it's so easy to come by, nor do I believe most of the folks filling your inbox with those one liners believe that line... They usually mean, as long as you treat me the way I've been trained, or the way I believe I should be treated, even if it's not what you need/want as the dominant. M

_____________________________

The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 39

RE: Total acquiescence, can it really happen? - 12/18/2008 11:31:13 AM

starshineowned

Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

quote:

"where my will doesn't count and my opinion doesn't matter, i simply obey"

The trust is there. I have no need nor desire to pit my will against Masters.

My opinions on matters are of more importance to him to hear than they are of importance to me to share. They like everything else belong to him as well.

starshine

so he tells you what to wear, how to vote, what spiritual beliefs to have, who to see, who not to see?

I'm just really not quite sure where you drew such questions to ask me based on what I wrote.

If he does..thats his choice to do. As to wether he does or doesn't I will not state because your questions seem more of a bating tag line than a real quest for information in understanding.

End for me

starshine

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 40

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