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RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 10:25:13 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Right, let's blame Obama for the ungodly mess that Bush has left behind.

And let's praise Bush for all the hidden potential in the current situation if the Obama Administration actually does figure out a way to make things better!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

"Things will get worse" is one promise PE Elect will keep. I'm confident that his administration and Congress will achieve the goal they set.


You'll have to point out the "praise for Bush" or even a reference to "hidden potential". Sorry you see "blame" in representation of fact.

The appointments to the Cabinet and other key posts made by PE Obama are, to me, a good prediction of the outcome. If there is anything I have in common with President Bush is that when I see a shoe coming at me, I too know how to duck and cover. I don't have to wait until it hits to react.

I'm enjoy the rebuttal, lacking in supporting evidence though it may be. It seems that the possibility of progress is so remote that even the 'believers' see it as an impossibility? It would indicate more agreement with my position than disagreement.

Please withhold the 'insightful' and debate progressing head bobbing applause.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 10:28:41 AM   
snappykappy


Posts: 616
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline 		so we are behind the 8 bubble not the 8 ball

(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 1:00:13 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

As best I can tell there are only 2 ilks of folks that have faith (faith = belief in something for which there is no evidence) the economy will be better next spring. 1) Those with their heads burind in the sand. 2) Those in a position to take advantnage of the losses of the masses.

Uncle Nasty


That really sums it up.  And, while I had my head in the sand someone.................me, repeatedly..

(in reply to UncleNasty)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 1:14:35 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Without government covering their bets all along, Wall Street would have crashed ages ago.


CL we discussed the auto maker bailout vs wall street several weeks ago.  I felt that you could tell whether the auto makers would be bailed out just by the enormous indebtedness they had to wall street.  I listened to three economists since the bailout  opine that the reason the bailout even occurred was that wall street told Bush  the bankers could not sustain the blow.  So, instead of surmising that Bush was being compassionate for human suffering, or keeping the auto makers around for national security, etc. etc.  I still think Bush did it for the same reason he has done everything:  to make sure his pets on wall street feel no pain and can get away with their gains..

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 2:28:55 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Here, I've made it easy for you.  Match the colors.

Laughing..."I'm confident that X" means "X is fact"?

Hilarious.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Right, let's blame Obama for the ungodly mess that Bush has left behind.

And let's praise Bush for all the hidden potential in the current situation if the Obama Administration actually does figure out a way to make things better!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

"Things will get worse" is one promise PE Elect will keep. I'm confident that his administration and Congress will achieve the goal they set.


You'll have to point out the "praise for Bush" or even a reference to "hidden potential". Sorry you see "blame" in representation of fact.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 3:13:39 PM   
samboct


Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		Merc- if anybody's fact challenged here- it's you-

"It will only get better when pragmatic action replaces academic social idealistic engineering."  Well, I agree with that statement.  So does the LA Times in this story

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-obama-cabinet20-2008dec20,0,4901420.story

It's clear Obama has taken your advice- he's made a bunch of pragmatic choices for his cabinet.  He's made sure that he hasn't alienated large blocks of the country- he hasn't picked a cabinet that Republicans are squirming over, and it's not one that liberals are ecstatic over.  A few of his picks are apolitical based on what appears to be competence- notably Steven Chu as energy secretary and Shaun Donovan at HUD.  Feel free to use the search function for my comments on Steven Chu posted earlier on this board.  Tell me- what was GWB using for his cabinet choices, because it often seemed that competence was way down on the list.  (Personal experience listening to Spencer Abraham.)

This country is suffering from an epidemic of incompetence which has also lead to a crisis of confidence.  (I don't see that overtaxation has played much of a role in getting us to where we are today.)  At this point- I'll give Obama the benefit of the doubt- I think he's doing a pretty good job of his cabinet picks- and in two key positions he's picked people who's sole qualification appears to be their competence in their field.  Other areas of the cabinet call for legislators and these people benefit from knowing how to get legislation passed.  Let's face it, the health care debacle isn't going to be solved by more research or a non-existant technology solution.  But both energy and housing could use some new technological approaches as well- and that's where there's new blood showing up.  OK, transportation could as well- nobody's perfect.

Sam

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 5:38:39 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Merc- if anybody's fact challenged here- it's you-

"It will only get better when pragmatic action replaces academic social idealistic engineering."  Well, I agree with that statement.

Sam, agreeing with someone you're trying to say is "fact challenged" isn't a path to proving your point.


(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 5:40:17 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Here, I've made it easy for you.  Match the colors.

Laughing..."I'm confident that X" means "X is fact"?

Hilarious.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Right, let's blame Obama for the ungodly mess that Bush has left behind.

And let's praise Bush for all the hidden potential in the current situation if the Obama Administration actually does figure out a way to make things better!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

"Things will get worse" is one promise PE Elect will keep. I'm confident that his administration and Congress will achieve the goal they set.


You'll have to point out the "praise for Bush" or even a reference to "hidden potential". Sorry you see "blame" in representation of fact.

Obama: "It will get worse. Me: I'm confident he will be proven correct. You: Confused?

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 12/20/2008 5:41:23 PM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 6:12:19 PM   
samboct


Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		"Sam, agreeing with someone you're trying to say is "fact challenged" isn't a path to proving your point."

Neither is refuting a point taken out of context.

Sam 

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 9:24:21 PM   
Truthiness


Posts: 251
Joined: 11/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

We had a choice the last election more of the same or something different.
The people voted him as the next President, and we will see what happens.
Happy Holidays!




The con is that people actually believe that he will be "something different."

A little naive I feel.

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 9:25:31 PM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I am not really in a position to speak for the PE.
But, I have always thought that PE Obama has publically stated
that the reason it will get worse before it gets better, is because
he is being truthful!

Surely you realize how bad our current economic situation is Merc.
To lie and say it will get better soon, would serve what purpose?
 
I am not going to lower myself to address personal insults at this time.
I will say I have not been "conned" and I have never said that I agree with
all of his policies!
We had a choice the last election more of the same or something different.
The people voted him as the next President, and we will see what happens.
Happy Holidays!



I think Obama is stating the obvious.  Most economists agree that we could easily see things get worse in the first half of 2009.  It's going to take time for the massive Fed and Treasury stimulus programs to work their way into the system and somewhere between six to nine months is a number I am hearing from economists.  We are already seeing the increased  liquidity in the banking system reflected in LIBOR down almost 300  basis points from it's high above 4 1/2%, and consumers are rushing to banks to re-finance mortgages with rates under 5%!  And don't forget, the collapse of oil from over $145 a barrel has put hundreds of billions of dollars back into the hands of the consumer, amounting to another importaant stimulus.  Obama is coming into power with the tide about ready to stop going out..the risk being the he and insane Pelosi do something stupid to destroy confidence in the recovery as they try to save the planet instead of the economy.

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 9:37:55 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

We had a choice the last election more of the same or something different.
The people voted him as the next President, and we will see what happens.
Happy Holidays!




The con is that people actually believe that he will be "something different."

A little naive I feel.


He will BE different than Bush or McSame.
The people have spoken, and it will be what it's going to be.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Truthiness)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 10:08:01 PM   
Truthiness


Posts: 251
Joined: 11/27/2008
Status: offline 		Exactly how will he be "Different" again?  Just because he says so?

Wow, never heard someone running for president say that before..

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/20/2008 10:20:30 PM   
bluepanda


Posts: 328
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

We had a choice the last election more of the same or something different.
The people voted him as the next President, and we will see what happens.
Happy Holidays!




The con is that people actually believe that he will be "something different."

A little naive I feel.


Well, he's a politician. There are going to be a lot of things he does in pretty much the same way every other politician does them, because that's the way the business is conducted. He'll make compromises, he'll change his mind and take a different position from time to time, he'll break promises the same way every other politician does. It would be naive of anyone to expect otherwise, and anyone who does expect otherwise is in for a nasty, disillusioning surprise. If anybody who dislikes him wants to prove he's no different than any other politician by seizing upon occasional examples of him doing things the same way other politicians do them, they won't have any trouble finding such examples.

But the measure of the man will be whether he succeeds in practicing a style of politics that, by and large, represents a fundamental change from the way we've become accustomed to seeing it practiced. I think he'll succeed in pulling that off, but if people just focus on the ways in which he isn't any different, they'll see what they want to see. Even though it may not be what they're really seeing.


_____________________________

Panda, Panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to Truthiness)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/21/2008 2:32:41 AM   
variation30


Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: winterlight

I got this comment from somebody who posted and i am wondering if others feel the same way..


lol. no.

well...let me put it this way...in spring 09 - my gold will be at 1000 an ounce...so I'll be doing well. but 'the economy' will not be doing well.

< Message edited by variation30 -- 12/21/2008 2:34:34 AM >

_____________________________

all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

(in reply to winterlight)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Do you think by next spring the economy will be bet... - 12/21/2008 7:01:05 AM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

quote:

ORIGINAL: winterlight

I got this comment from somebody who posted and i am wondering if others feel the same way..


lol. no.

well...let me put it this way...in spring 09 - my gold will be at 1000 an ounce...so I'll be doing well. but 'the economy' will not be doing well.


What was that address again?

_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

(in reply to variation30)
Profile   Post #: 56
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