RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice.

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 8:28:45 PM

purepleasure

Posts: 6941
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
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To the people that are in support of the OP's behavior...

Would you want your daughter, sister or other female you care about to be in a relationship with this type of person? Would you be concerned for her safety? If she wanted out, and wanted to leave with half of the household, would you help her leave, or would you try to convince her to stay?

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(in reply to SunnyTawse)

Post #: 141

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 8:32:12 PM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Whilst you are busy improving yourself, what is she busy doing? Maybe she was always perfect and beyond improvement? Sometimes people they seem right for each other but just end up clashing. Trial and error. What things cause your anger in the first place, people aren’t born angry they get annoyed by things. Sometimes people start out liking one another but then one starts to irritate the other, what people say about not being able to find a match because you've not discovered the things that made your previous relationship fail have no basis in reality. As it assumes every possible match is a combination of the same simplistic issues. People are unique one is not like another so how can a failure of one relationship have any bearing on another, unless there is a key flaw? Most of the time it’s nobody’s fault it’s just life. If you had had a number of relationships and they've all ended the same you could call it your fault.

I've read this three times and i still can't get a grasp on what Raechard is saying. As far as the anger thing goes - breaking a fork and scattering food over the room isn't a normal reaction to food you don't like. Maybe you can find a woman who doesn't object to this type of behaviour - good luck with that

.

The thing is, just about any woman i know would consider your stated behaviour as being very scary. Anger management would be a great idea. You can find the middle ground in acknowledging your anger - somewhere between refusing to feel angry, and scaring the shit out of the woman that you love.

One of the other posters made a very astute observation - if your gf was afraid of you, then YOU have a problem, even if you don't think (and neither do a lot of the male posters) that your actions were so bad. You might want to really consider this.

(in reply to Raechard)

Post #: 142

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 8:38:25 PM

SunnyTawse

Posts: 151
Joined: 11/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saishuu

ON the topic of by the end of january getting my fiancee to talk to me (In oppose to just not speaking to me or send me a text saying "I don't think we can be friends ever).

What is the best thing to do?

The best thing to do is work like a maniac on your own issues, not only by doing the anger management program but by reading, soul-searching, talking with professionals, and avoiding whatsoever justifying any part of your behavior.

The best thing to do is to work on your own growth and development, understanding what motivates your anger, understanding where the emotion comes from, and working actively to find other ways of expressing yourself.

The best thing to do is to accept honest feedback from those around you. These people are not lying to you if they say they are scared of you or intimidated by you. Hear it. Understand it. Make it part of yourself. Wrestle with your own actions and reactions.

The best thing to do is leave her alone. She is no longer your fiancee. Do not allow yourself to twist your perception of things into the image of the situation you would like it to be. Do not put arbitrary deadlines on a resolution.

Listen to me: Your ONLY chance for a resolution is to put aside everything but your own growth and development. I do know of situations where doing so enabled the couple to get back together. Realize it may take YEARS. Do not be discouraged. It IS possible. But you need a complete change of heart, mind and soul. You need a complete change of attitude.

I do wish you the best of luck.

Sunny Tawse
Sadien Domina

(in reply to Saishuu)

Post #: 143

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 8:44:47 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Destroying WHOSE property? If someone destroys YOUR property, yes, it's abusive--and also criminal. If he destroys HIS OWN property, it doesn't amount to much more than "behavior I'd rather not witness."

I don't give a shit about some techinical point about whose property it is. The forks in the dinner were probably their community property so he destroyed her property - happy?

If Val rips apart his Nerf guns in a rage because I couldn't find one of his Nerf darts, I don't give a damn that it's legally his. That's going to scare the fuck out of me and intimidate me in non-happy, non-BDSM ways and I'm going to call that a mild form of abuse. And if you guys would want to condemn for leaving for being afraid, you'd be welcome to do so but I wouldn't lose a bit of sleep over it.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 144

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 9:02:01 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Lets take the subject of what is and isn't abusive for a thread of its own...I will start one in the general forum.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 145

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 9:11:53 PM

stella41b

Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I wish you COULD access your research, because I'd like to see something more substantial than Wiki articles. If all this stuff is really so "well documented," it shouldn't be that hard to find some documentation, should it?

Okay, you want to be convinced about a link between disrespecting inanimate objects, disrespecting people and abuse, how about these?

All real life documented cases...

Clark Country Prosecutor's Office - Death Penalty Casses

Texas Department of Criminal Justice - Scheduled Executions. There's a list of offenders awaiting execution. You can go down the list and click on 'Offender Information' and discover why each offender got the death penalty. Plenty of abuse cases here.

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(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 146

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 9:14:56 PM

stella41b

Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SunnyTawse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saishuu

ON the topic of by the end of january getting my fiancee to talk to me (In oppose to just not speaking to me or send me a text saying "I don't think we can be friends ever).

What is the best thing to do?

The best thing to do is work like a maniac on your own issues, not only by doing the anger management program but by reading, soul-searching, talking with professionals, and avoiding whatsoever justifying any part of your behavior.

The best thing to do is to work on your own growth and development, understanding what motivates your anger, understanding where the emotion comes from, and working actively to find other ways of expressing yourself.

The best thing to do is to accept honest feedback from those around you. These people are not lying to you if they say they are scared of you or intimidated by you. Hear it. Understand it. Make it part of yourself. Wrestle with your own actions and reactions.

The best thing to do is leave her alone. She is no longer your fiancee. Do not allow yourself to twist your perception of things into the image of the situation you would like it to be. Do not put arbitrary deadlines on a resolution.

Listen to me: Your ONLY chance for a resolution is to put aside everything but your own growth and development. I do know of situations where doing so enabled the couple to get back together. Realize it may take YEARS. Do not be discouraged. It IS possible. But you need a complete change of heart, mind and soul. You need a complete change of attitude.

I do wish you the best of luck.

Sunny Tawse
Sadien Domina

BINGO!!!!!

What she said..

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also Facebook
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Simply Q

(in reply to SunnyTawse)

Post #: 147

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 9:53:02 PM

Sanguinarian

Posts: 474
Joined: 8/13/2008
Status: offline

Dude, you're a freaking stalker. Leave the girl alone! Stop texting her and messaging her all the damned time before she has you arrested for harrassment so you can get a full body cavity search by some huge cop with hands the size of ham hocks looking to see if you are hiding some weapon in your rectum.

Good god, think about the reasons why she left! OBVIOUSLY you are doing something that makes her feel in danger of her personal safety. Figure it out, and fix it.

(in reply to Saishuu)

Post #: 148

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 10:00:25 PM

bluepanda

Posts: 328
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SunnyTawse
The best thing to do is work like a maniac on your own issues, not only by doing the anger management program but by reading, soul-searching, talking with professionals, and avoiding whatsoever justifying any part of your behavior.

The best thing to do is to work on your own growth and development, understanding what motivates your anger, understanding where the emotion comes from, and working actively to find other ways of expressing yourself.

The best thing to do is to accept honest feedback from those around you. These people are not lying to you if they say they are scared of you or intimidated by you. Hear it. Understand it. Make it part of yourself. Wrestle with your own actions and reactions.

The best thing to do is leave her alone. She is no longer your fiancee. Do not allow yourself to twist your perception of things into the image of the situation you would like it to be. Do not put arbitrary deadlines on a resolution.

Listen to me: Your ONLY chance for a resolution is to put aside everything but your own growth and development. I do know of situations where doing so enabled the couple to get back together. Realize it may take YEARS. Do not be discouraged. It IS possible. But you need a complete change of heart, mind and soul. You need a complete change of attitude.

I do wish you the best of luck.

Sunny Tawse
Sadien Domina

Sunny... I never realized you were here on Collarme. I'm glad you are, and wish you'd post more often. Good post. Very good post.

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(in reply to SunnyTawse)

Post #: 149

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 10:09:40 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Lets take the subject of what is and isn't abusive for a thread of its own...I will start one in the general forum.

Ugh... I think I'd rather do sub v. slave. I respect you for starting it Michael but I think I'll bow out of that debate.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 150

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 10:21:29 PM

talktomeplease

Posts: 21
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline

Destroying inanimate objects in anger is not a wonderful thing, and depending on how it was done, it might make me trust someone less, but I don't see it as abuse. And I'm female.

Also, even *if* it is well-documented that abusive people start out with objects (and I'm skeptical of that), that still doesn't mean that all people who destroy objects will move on to people. That is a logical fallacy called affirming the consequent.

I had a boyfriend when I was a teen who on occasion would smash his fist through walls, sometimes requiring hospital treatment. Never once did he direct this rage towards me. I still maintain contact with him today, 20 years later. He's never been abusive that I can tell, to anyone. So there's a counter-example for you all who say that anyone who smashes a phone is going to become a wife beater.

I think that it's important that words not lose their meaning by trying to fit everything but the kitchen sink into them. Rape means someone forcing someone else to have sex, either by physical force, drugging, or credible threats. Talking someone into sex when they started out not really wanting to is not rape. Agreeing to sex when you're drunk and then later blaming the guy is not rape. Likewise, if we try to fit everything that we don't consider stellar behaviour into the word "abuse", the word loses meaning.

And frankly, I think it's disrespectful to those who have experienced real abuse, to label smashing a phone in the same way as smashing someone's face.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 151

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 10:25:37 PM

moonvine

Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline

I don't think you can consent to sex when you're drunk, any more than you can consent to it when you're in any other altered state.

(in reply to talktomeplease)

Post #: 152

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 10:37:04 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

No one said that anyone and everyone who ever smashed something, broke something or hit something was going to abuse someone physically. The data provides statistic's... but do they cover every relationship... no! What is a fact is that many who do these things go on to do more in every way and phsyically and that those who cope with life, anger, disappointment or simple selfish um'ish behaviors could escalate and to risk your safety, happiness and family life... not to mention many other things... is a risky thing to do and many will not chose that option and I believe it is best not to do so.

Now if someone decides they will stay in a relationship with someone who acts this way... cool... go for it... I will even hold your hand and help you sign papers for protective orders, move you, put locks in or whatever it takes if you are wrong... but to not consider that these situations can change and become dangerous simply because not all abuse further... is a gamble. If it goes well and no one goes further... great!

Still for me... I don't want to live with someone who blasts off because his toast is too dark or the car makes a funny noise or someone looked at him or me the wrong way or he simply didn't get his way and decided to break a wall along with his hand. That may not be compared to a fist into my nose, but it takes just as much life out of my life and it robs me of sleep, good health and a calm assurance that he will be adult and handle life without the drama of his um'ish tantrums.

You all can discredit data, you can disbelieve whatever and feel whatever... but I will simply stand by the fact that most of us would not wish to live with someone like that and someone like that would make most sane and balanced people think twice about how trustworthy the person really was.

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Post #: 153

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 11:32:52 PM

talktomeplease

Posts: 21
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline

Then the man who is also drunk ALSO cannot give consent. So does that mean you've raped each other? Or that neither of you has been raped? Commonly these days, especially on college campuses, when two people have drunken sex, and the woman later regrets it, it gets labeled "rape".

(in reply to moonvine)

Post #: 154

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 11:35:51 PM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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Post #: 155

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 11:40:43 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: talktomeplease

Then the man who is also drunk ALSO cannot give consent. So does that mean you've raped each other? Or that neither of you has been raped? Commonly these days, especially on college campuses, when two people have drunken sex, and the woman later regrets it, it gets labeled "rape".

Where the hell do you find that statistic? Sounds like an opinion to me.

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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

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Post #: 156

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 11:41:05 PM

moonvine

Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: talktomeplease

Then the man who is also drunk ALSO cannot give consent. So does that mean you've raped each other? Or that neither of you has been raped? Commonly these days, especially on college campuses, when two people have drunken sex, and the woman later regrets it, it gets labeled "rape".

Legally it may be rape, though it isn't as simple as "two people having drunken sex and the woman later regretting it."
Apparently alcohol is considered a potential legal intoxicant in all states.

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=12517

If a man was this drunk I expect he'd be unable to have sex.

(in reply to talktomeplease)

Post #: 157

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 11:44:53 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

Ummm I have had some pretty drunk guys... er.. um... all night long. hehe Some can... some can't. I like the one's that can... if we were to drink of course. Damn I was bad back then... but it was fun!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to moonvine)

Post #: 158

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/25/2008 11:59:55 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: purepleasure

To the people that are in support of the OP's behavior...

Would you want your daughter, sister or other female you care about to be in a relationship with this type of person? Would you be concerned for her safety? If she wanted out, and wanted to leave with half of the household, would you help her leave, or would you try to convince her to stay?

Hell, I'd drive the moving van. And leave a list of therapists.

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(in reply to purepleasure)

Post #: 159

RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 12:17:00 AM

moonvine

Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Ummm I have had some pretty drunk guys... er.. um... all night long. hehe Some can... some can't. I like the one's that can... if we were to drink of course. Damn I was bad back then... but it was fun!

The last drunk guy I tried to have sex with passed out with his face buried, well, you know where. I had to figure out how I was going to get 200 pounds of dead weight off my legs using only my upper body. Never again.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 160

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