RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice.

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 12:22:27 AM

Lockit

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Hehe... how did you do it?

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 12:30:37 AM

bluepanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Hehe... how did you do it?

Well, you could cut him up into smaller pieces, but you should probably do that only if you've already decided you don't want to date him again.

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 12:32:57 AM

Lockit

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LOL.. he passes out doing 'that' and there would be no further dates!

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 12:34:54 AM

TheVoiceofOne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: purepleasure

To the people that are in support of the OP's behavior...

Would you want your daughter, sister or other female you care about to be in a relationship with this type of person? Would you be concerned for her safety? If she wanted out, and wanted to leave with half of the household, would you help her leave, or would you try to convince her to stay?

I don't see anyone in support of his behavior. I see some people rightly calling BS on all of the amateur psychologists who seem to love ASSUMING that everyone is on the verge of going postal, and in desperate need of counseling... from reading a few words or paragraphs on a bdsm forum...

This guy (the OP) is another young man, who is not mature, and probably drinks (deduced from his seeming inability to remember any concrete facts about any of the purported events.), I am sure he is the only immature young man who drinks gets mad, and breaks stuff in the entire world.

And I am sure his girlfriend and all of the long list of fellow oddballs from his posts... are perfectly sane and contributed nothing to said purported events... OK, whatever.

If I had a daughter... none of you freakazoids would get within a hundred miles of her.

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 12:40:32 AM

Lockit

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LOL...now there is some projection far different than any projection you accuse us of! ROFL... now the guy is not only handling things in a poor way... he's a drunk! lol

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 12:42:31 AM

TheVoiceofOne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

LOL...now there is some projection far different than any projection you accuse us of! ROFL... now the guy is not only handling things in a poor way... he's a drunk! lol

Well... he is English after all!

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 12:43:19 AM

Lockit

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ROFL

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 12:51:37 AM

SweetDommes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Destroying WHOSE property? If someone destroys YOUR property, yes, it's abusive--and also criminal. If he destroys HIS OWN property, it doesn't amount to much more than "behavior I'd rather not witness."

Anyway, look, I don't consider your websites "proof," and I don't think you're committed to trying to convince me (from your tone, I infer that you think I'm just wrong and annoying), so let's drop this. But I think it's very dangerous to be mistaken when identifying patterns of behavior as characteristic of abusers because you're very likely to get false positives AND false negatives. (Those mean: You're bound to suspect someone wrongly of being an abuser if he displays the pattern in question, AND you're bound to miss someone who really is an abuser if he doesn't display the pattern in question.)

*I read the first post, a few after, and then the last few pages ... I missed a good deal, so keep that in mind when reading this*

I just have to throw this in ...

If you were at work, and smashed something (no matter what it was or whose it was) in a temper, you would be creating a hostile work environment for others - at least by the definition of everywhere I've ever worked. Why on earth should it be different at home? If home is a hostile environment, then it doesn't matter if the person has been hit or if the wall has been hit, or if the stuff animals have had their heads/arms/legs ripped off, or silverware has been thrown, or anything else - it's hostile, and the person needs to get out.

To the OP - omg, leave the girl alone. If she hasn't already filed a report with the police, I'd be very surprised. If I had an ex doing this, I sure as hell would be filing reports in preperation for a restraining order. I'd also be sleeping with the dogs in my room, and wouldn't go ANYWHERE alone. Just reading about your behaviour is creeping me out ...

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 1:21:24 AM

Lordandmaster

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Ummm...really, I don't find a single case there that says the guy "disrespected inanimate objects" before moving on to killing people. (I don't even know what "disrespecting inanimate objects" means, actually.)

I'm surprised this has caused such a furor. Lockit, if there is so much in the way of data and statistics about this, why can't you cite any?

SweetDommes, it should be obvious that you can't compare a domestic situation to a work environment. There are many things that wouldn't be acceptable in a work environment that people do at home all the time. (Like how about walking around naked?)

Anyway, for the people who don't understand my point of view, I'll try to explain it one last time: it's extremely dangerous to claim that a certain pattern of behavior is linked to domestic abuse because if you're wrong about it, you risk mistakenly suspecting innocent people AND mistakenly overlooking real abusers. Now there's a very clear connection between animal abuse and criminal behavior, so I'm not talking about abusing pets or anything like that. I'm talking about breaking inanimate objects. I doubt very much that there really is any correlation between breaking inanimate objects and domestic abuse, and have been asking in this thread, evidently in vain, for some serious information about it. Not popular websites or something someone read long ago and can't find anymore. Frankly, I doubt you'll find a single adult male who has not wilfully broken an inanimate object at some point in his life. They don't all become abusers. The ones who become abusers are the ones who abuse people.

Lastly, LadyPact asked earlier at what point one draws the line and calls a pattern of behavior abusive. Well, there are laws about that. Surely we agree that when the behavior becomes criminal, it has gone too far. So the question is what type of NON-CRIMINAL behavior we would consider abusive. I daresay we'll all have different answers. It's very important not to confuse "doesn't behave the way I'd like" with "abuses people." Otherwise "abuse" becomes an insidious cover for prosecuting difference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I wish you COULD access your research, because I'd like to see something more substantial than Wiki articles. If all this stuff is really so "well documented," it shouldn't be that hard to find some documentation, should it?

Okay, you want to be convinced about a link between disrespecting inanimate objects, disrespecting people and abuse, how about these?

All real life documented cases...

Clark Country Prosecutor's Office - Death Penalty Casses

Texas Department of Criminal Justice - Scheduled Executions. There's a list of offenders awaiting execution. You can go down the list and click on 'Offender Information' and discover why each offender got the death penalty. Plenty of abuse cases here.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 12/26/2008 1:23:00 AM >

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 1:26:01 AM

moonvine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Hehe... how did you do it?

It was a LONG LONG time ago but if I remember I gave up and went to sleep like that and he eventually rolled off me...heh.

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 3:20:41 AM

Saishuu

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Just to clear up a few things.

I don't drink. Not even a little bit in the space of a month, maby a little bit in the space of a year (like christmass dinner, there is allways wine on the table). (To whoever said that). I also don't take drugs and never will/have.

I've done nothing else (whoever said I must have done other things). It wasn't tactical in anyway, it was just stupid things to do, which scared her. The dinner was completely stupid, and the phone was just frustration because of her mother making her cry.

Infact knowing our relationship and how good it was and how long ago these happened, I don't think it was these reasons, or only these reasons. I think it was her mother constantely twisting her arm for months on end (and her BF influencing this). Or these were contributing factors to something else... like stress from uni, or money worries, or her mother (you can appreciate how much you can be made unhappy over the phone by someone stiring worry into your mind right?)..

To whoever said things would escalate, no they wouldn't, after the second time me & my fiancee cried alot, worked things out (or should I say I worked things out because it was my bad behaviour, not her fault),

Nothing had happened for a long time, thats why I didn't know the reason at the start, I have not heard it from her mouth, infact I've heard all the reasons from myself & her mate. They were are all speculation.

I'm pretty sure it was the smashing stuff, but how could any of us after reading this thread, not think that O_O. I'd like to know the other stuff. It would be nice to be told

Going back to before I read this thread I was still unsure of the reason. Maby it would be wise to still be unsure, there could be other contributing factors.

Regardless of if its the reason she left, I think I have a problem with anger, & I'm going to get help with it, not for her, but for myself.(also a problem with communication, & life experience, can't get help with that last one though...)

< Message edited by Saishuu -- 12/26/2008 3:26:17 AM >

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 3:54:15 AM

Aileen1968

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I've only read up to page three of this thread.
Just the fact that you wanted to send a text to her from your stuffed animal is enough to make me run screaming from the room and never want to have a single thing to do with you again. You deal with shit like you're in junior high school.
Grow up and read the writing on the wall. She doesn't love you anymore. If she did she'd be there trying to work it out.

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 4:35:42 AM

LadyPact

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Geez. And I thought I was the resident insomniac around here.

Let's forget the whole pattern of abusive behavior thing. I'm completely willing to look over every personal story recounted of how a person's actions went from bad to worse in anger issues. We'll skip every person who's posted on these boards about how their past abusers didn't only use physical abuse to control people.

Here's the deal. It doesn't matter a rat's ass what our definitions of abuse, intimidation, or fear are. Guess who's does?
That's right. The girl in question. The OP has said repeatedly that his behavior scared her. Even if it didn't, she picked up and moved out. Now, I'm not a relationship expert, but I get the feeling that isn't a sign of a successful partnership.

For whatever reason, she packed up, moved out, and changed her phone number. I highly doubt anyone twisted her arm and made her do any of those things against her will. It doesn't matter if it's because he broke a plate, was causing problems with her family, or hasn't gotten off his duff and got a job. Whatever it was, she left and didn't want him knowing about it until after it was done.

I can't speak for her, but I've never gone through the trouble of actually moving because I was happy in My own home.

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 5:06:06 AM

Raechard

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Saishuu

Just to clear up a few things.

I don't drink. Not even a little bit in the space of a month, maby a little bit in the space of a year (like christmass dinner, there is allways wine on the table). (To whoever said that). I also don't take drugs and never will/have.

I've done nothing else (whoever said I must have done other things). It wasn't tactical in anyway, it was just stupid things to do, which scared her. The dinner was completely stupid, and the phone was just frustration because of her mother making her cry.

Infact knowing our relationship and how good it was and how long ago these happened, I don't think it was these reasons, or only these reasons.

Nothing had happened for a long time, thats why I didn't know the reason at the start, I have not heard it from her mouth, infact I've heard all the reasons from myself & her mate. They were are all speculation.

I'm pretty sure it was the smashing stuff, but how could any of us after reading this thread, not think that O_O. I'd like to know the other stuff. It would be nice to be told

In the absence of facts people love to assume things, ignore them. If you have a problem with anger then deal with it but never assume it was just your fault she left or you'll be trying to convince her the future will be different from the past because you are a changed man when the reality of the situation may be it will never be ok because there is some fundamental difference that puts you at odds with each other.

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 5:07:27 AM

Roselaure

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

She doesn't love you anymore. If she did she'd be there trying to work it out.

And that's the long and the short of it. Whether anyone here thinks abuse has occurred, whether anyone here thinks the OP need anger management, the fact is his ex fiancee has said her piece. She's gone. Period. It hurts, but it's life and he needs to find a way to move on, discover those issues about himself which make him sabotage his relationships, or pick the wrong women or whatever, preferably with some professional guidance, and live his life.

< Message edited by Roselaure -- 12/26/2008 5:08:14 AM >

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 5:21:40 AM

Raechard

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There is some really bad selective reading going on here. Leaving is not saying your piece and logically now she is safe, she is free to give the exact reasons through an intermediary if need be but hasn't adequately done so. The best way to get rid of an annoyance is by telling him straight the situation, not leaving him to second guess and think ‘perhaps if only I change in this way will can be happy again’.

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 5:28:53 AM

Roselaure

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

There is some really bad selective reading going on here. Leaving is not saying your piece and logically now she is safe, she is free to give the exact reasons through an intermediary if need be but hasn't adequately done so. The best way to get rid of an annoyance is by telling him straight the situation, not leaving him to second guess and think ‘perhaps if only I change in this way will can be happy again’.

I didn't mean she had literally "said her piece". I meant that leaving without a word is sending a message. Maybe that message is, I don't care enough about you to bother with telling you why." Maybe it's "I've told you a thousand times and you never listen, so I'm done talking." Maybe it's, "I'm scared to death of you and afraid to confront you." Who knows? But he can't make her wrap this up the way he'd like.

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 7:27:57 AM

Lockit

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Lordandmaster, I am not spending my time doing research to prove anything and you can view that any way you wish to. You are taking words to an extreme level. All things in life must be balanced out. If someone is consistantly, repeatedly angry, breaking things and IF a person feels afraid, they should consider that this angry person COULD become more angry or frustrated in life and COULD take things to another level.

If people are seemingly adults in relationships, then they should be able to weigh things out and figure out for themselves what to do. I do not feel that anyone has been irresponsible here. This is a subject that can go into pages and pages of reports, studies and news reports and I would have them for you if this damn computer took a floppy or wasn't a vista. I do not back out of proving this because I cannot I do so because I don't feel like validating anything with a new report to prove anything. People need to use reason in their life and if they are afraid, do something, if they are not afriad, stay with the person breaking a few objects. It is a personal choice.

We are not going to agree and my life work is not to prove a point I feel is reasonable just because you don't think it is reasonable. If you don't like that I am sorry because I have never had a problem with you before. There are many cases of actual murder that started with being mean with words... breaking things and then hitting and controling and then murder. Our famouse football player... not found guilty criminally who was held responsible in a civil case is one of them. Although you can argue that too. I won't do this. Think of me what you will. That too is a choice. If you wish to pick things apart... no one said murder... although that happens all the time to abuse victims. I never said certain words you are clinging to... I in good faith did try to provide information and it simply wasn't enough in your estimatation and you want more. If you feel I have been so irresponsible and it matters so much that I might have tainted the minds and relationships of people who have read this thread... then you have a responsiblity to prove me wrong and provide data that would protect the poor souls. Then you can blame me all over the place.

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 8:31:21 AM

beargonewild

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quote:

ORIGINAL: talktomeplease
Destroying inanimate objects in anger is not a wonderful thing, and depending on how it was done, it might make me trust someone less, but I don't see it as abuse. And I'm female.

Yet there are countless numbers of abusers where this is a classic part of the patterns that has lead to actual physical abuse to their partners. You may not see this but sit and have an honest talk with any person who works with abused women, abused ums, abused spouses, abused elders.

quote:

ORIGINAL: talktomeplease
Also, even *if* it is well-documented that abusive people start out with objects (and I'm skeptical of that), that still doesn't mean that all people who destroy objects will move on to people. That is a logical fallacy called affirming the consequent.

Dammit, we have not said it it is clear cut indicator of abuse. We have stated it is a good indicator...meaning the potential is there and and it is a risk which many DO NOT want to chance, a very big difference. Since you are so skeptical, go talk to a worker or volunteer at a woman's shelter, maybe they will be able to help you see things in a different light because it's obvious that we can't: especially us who have lived through abuse and/or work with abused people. Frankly that's a damn strong indicator that our experience is invalid and says that we don't know what the hell we're talking about
Bah......

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RE: Fiancee/sub disappeared, looking for a bit of advice. - 12/26/2008 8:37:43 AM

GreedyTop

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exactly, Bear

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