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RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 3:50:17 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

The OP made a post about being able to recognize abusive behaviors within yourself and pointed out that your fist doesn't have to connect with someone else's face for it to be abusive. Personally, I thought it was a fantastic and important post and I thank the OP for making it. A lot of people have posted and shared their experiences here. You came in belittling and discounting....talking about victim mentalities and drama. You think that subtle abuse is BS...ok, we get that that is how you feel. But trust me on this, you are not going to convince one single person who has ever lived through it that it wasn't abusive just because you don't think it was.

Should I feel abused because I've had females do bad things to me? Should I feel like a victim as well..have you never said anything bad or done anything bad to an individual?

Nobody is belittling anyone. If you want to read it as that it's on you. I've read enough of your posts to expect that.


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Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 3:52:36 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

But trust me on this, you are not going to convince one single person who has ever lived through it that it wasn't abusive just because you don't think it was.

Nor is anyone here going to convince anyone who has no interest in learning about abuse, what abuse is.  There comes a time when you (generically) have to focus on those who are genuinely interested, rather than those who don't want to contribute anything substantive to the conversation.  I agree - it was an important OP. 

And I love what Celeste said about being careful that those you (generically) love don't some day feel the need to protect themselves from you.  I think that's the strongest message that has come out of this thread.  Some will receive that and think about it, and others won't.   Still, if this thread has brought new and valuable perspective to anybody, than it was a well spent thread worth the effort.


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Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:00:27 PM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

Sometimes the abused is the abuser as well. I've had people make snide remarks to me on the forums but you won't see me crying over it. I've made a few as well. I've had some comments taken that way when I didn't mean it that way so they overreacted. I find also that the abused will sometimes become the abuser..jumping people at a moments notice..using drama to manipulate an outcome so forth and so on.


The difference here is that you're not talking about an intimate relationship.

quote:

I personally have lost control and yelled..said things I didn't mean and even said things I did mean but didn't want to say. Mark me as an abuser. If I actually knew any of you I might care.

We have all at some point or another done the same.. the difference is when talking about an intimate relationship where the losing control and comments made become a pattern..that moves into the realm of abuse.

quote:

When I was younger I punched my fist down on a glass after finding out my girlfriend cheated on me. I payed for that by having to go to work with electrical tape on while enduring the pain. I guess I should have thought about her feelings and how bad she must have felt while she went down on anothers dick and how she might feel while watching me do that(watching me hurt myself)..What and arse I am.


IN that situation, I don't blame you.. as long as it wasn't a PATTERN, on your part.

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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:02:25 PM   
Rayne58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

This is hardly rocket science, or is it?

Subtle abuse = harassment, putdowns, emotional manipulation, emotional blackmail, bullying, systematic taunts, systematic threats, unfair criticism, making someone feel bad, making someone feel guilty, ... it just doesn't get any simpler, or does it?

Or maybe this topic is a little too close to the knuckle?

Just out of curiosity...


My ex did most of this throughout much of our 23 year marriage, but up until someone pointed it out I did not realise it was abusive behaviour.  I had lived with it for so long that it had become "normal" to feel unhappy and bad about myself.  I did not realise how much emotional stress I was under until I became ill with a stomach ulcer and the doctor asked me if I was under stress   I actually told him no I wasn't stressed! 

It was a year and a few months later that I left - the weight that came off my shoulders that day felt unbelievable.  But the behaviours listed above became more "out in the open" during the separation and the sorting out of financial matters.  He became frustrated because he could not control me in that way any more, and he didn't know how else to handle it especially when I hung up on him a few times when he became loud and abusive on the phone.   

I do not speak to him now unless I have to (our daughter lives with him for the moment).  I have not seen him since my father died in early 2005.  I still have nightmares about him.  Those are gradually becoming fewer, but they still throw me when they happen.  We live in separate countries now and there is an ocean between us but it's still not big enough......

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Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:03:07 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

Sometimes the abused is the abuser as well. I've had people make snide remarks to me on the forums but you won't see me crying over it. I've made a few as well. I've had some comments taken that way when I didn't mean it that way so they overreacted. I find also that the abused will sometimes become the abuser..jumping people at a moments notice..using drama to manipulate an outcome so forth and so on.


The difference here is that you're not talking about an intimate relationship.

quote:

I personally have lost control and yelled..said things I didn't mean and even said things I did mean but didn't want to say. Mark me as an abuser. If I actually knew any of you I might care.

We have all at some point or another done the same.. the difference is when talking about an intimate relationship where the losing control and comments made become a pattern..that moves into the realm of abuse.

quote:

When I was younger I punched my fist down on a glass after finding out my girlfriend cheated on me. I payed for that by having to go to work with electrical tape on while enduring the pain. I guess I should have thought about her feelings and how bad she must have felt while she went down on anothers dick and how she might feel while watching me do that(watching me hurt myself)..What and arse I am.


IN that situation, I don't blame you.. as long as it wasn't a PATTERN, on your part.

It doesn't matter if it was intimate or not but as I've stated before if it becomes a pattern in any way then yes it's bad.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
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Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:05:24 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

It doesn't matter if it was intimate or not but as I've stated before if it becomes a pattern in any way then yes it's bad.



Actually, feeling emotionally unsafe in an intimate relationship has a more profound effect on a person than feeling that way with a stranger.  It can really mess a person up, over time.


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Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:05:28 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Icarys... darling.... THAT is the point we've been trying to make! 

quote:

if it becomes a pattern in any way then yes it's bad.


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Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:07:24 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Icarys... darling.... THAT is the point we've been trying to make! 

quote:

if it becomes a pattern in any way then yes it's bad.


Don't Darling me Honey. I think I've stated that throughout my posts in one form or another so why is everyone missing that time and time again?

< Message edited by Icarys -- 12/27/2008 4:08:00 PM >

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submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:09:32 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

It doesn't matter if it was intimate or not but as I've stated before if it becomes a pattern in any way then yes it's bad.



Actually, feeling emotionally unsafe in an intimate relationship has a more profound effect on a person than feeling that way with a stranger.  It can really mess a person up, over time.

I don't buy into that's it's somehow better by it being somehow worse in one theory. If you do it to a stranger it's just as bad.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:11:14 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		*sigh*

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Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:11:58 PM   
MadRabbit


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Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

This is hardly rocket science, or is it?

Subtle abuse = harassment, putdowns, emotional manipulation, emotional blackmail, bullying, systematic taunts, systematic threats, unfair criticism, making someone feel bad, making someone feel guilty, ... it just doesn't get any simpler, or does it?

Or maybe this topic is a little too close to the knuckle?

Just out of curiosity...


Wow...you just described my work enviroment in the butcher shop.



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Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:12:33 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

*sigh*

That was tongue in cheek sweet pea.


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Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
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Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:13:11 PM   
NuevaVida


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Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I don't buy into that's it's somehow better by it being somehow worse in one theory. If you do it to a stranger it's just as bad.



OK, you don't have to buy it.  The effect of abusive behavior is worse for me personally when I am emotionally vulnerable to someone, and emotionally invested in somebody.  I give more of myself then, and there is a bigger sense of betrayal, fear and confusion when that trust is breached. 


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:14:24 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		fair enough

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polysnortatious
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Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:14:46 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

This is hardly rocket science, or is it?

Subtle abuse = harassment, putdowns, emotional manipulation, emotional blackmail, bullying, systematic taunts, systematic threats, unfair criticism, making someone feel bad, making someone feel guilty, ... it just doesn't get any simpler, or does it?

Or maybe this topic is a little too close to the knuckle?

Just out of curiosity...


Wow...you just described my work enviroment in the butcher shop.



Maybe guys deal with this in a different way. I've worked as a carpenter for sometime and we "abused" each other in fun for the whole time at work as well.




_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:16:23 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		there is no maybe about it, Icarys, IMO

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Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:17:25 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I don't buy into that's it's somehow better by it being somehow worse in one theory. If you do it to a stranger it's just as bad.



OK, you don't have to buy it.  The effect of abusive behavior is worse for me personally when I am emotionally vulnerable to someone, and emotionally invested in somebody.  I give more of myself then, and there is a bigger sense of betrayal, fear and confusion when that trust is breached. 


Could it be that some people get so emotionally involved to the point that they react badly to even a slight thing? Ya know..overly sensitive types? Not that you are..just saying.

< Message edited by Icarys -- 12/27/2008 4:21:57 PM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:19:59 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

there is no maybe about it, Icarys, IMO

Hell it was a favorite past time of just about every guy I've ever known at every job I've ever been at. Did we take it too far at times..yes but we also learned each others buttons and for the most part everyone respected that lol.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:20:07 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		If we're still talking about a rude comment, no, I don't think a rude comment to a stranger is just as bad.  There's no emotional connection between the two people for it to matter.

For example, you callling Me a twit for My opinion wouldn't phase Me a bit.  If it was someone I cared about on a personal level, it would have a greater impact.  This would especially be true if I was told it often enough to believe it.


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RE: Subtle Abuse - 12/27/2008 4:20:56 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Maybe the next thread could be about Victim Mentalities? Those who love it and why.


Already done something similar. The original op is in my journal under hysteria a theory.

I'm not sure that's the same thing. Thanks anyway.




You asked about victim mentalities, it explained mine. You asked why people loved it, it explained why i did.
 
 

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Profile   Post #: 200
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