quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

You'd have to give examples of these 'unthinkable atrocities' that have occurred from not having guns for me to answer that.

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ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

You'd have to give examples of these 'unthinkable atrocities' that have occurred from not having guns for me to answer that.

Just as ONE example:  Read a little about "The Rape of Nanking."

(Not to mention the disarming of the Jews as one of the first steps toward the holocaust).

On the other hand, read Orwell's "Homage to Cataluna" or read the "St.
Crispin's Day Speech" from Henry V (Shakespeare).  The primary right (and need) for the common citizen to bear arms was not
about defending against crime (although it can certainly come in handy
in that regard too).

In the grand scheme of things, we'll all be gone in a hundred years -- no matter what.  But when a man goes down shooting, in defense of his children or his wife or his elderly mother, instead of standing by, watching helplessly in horror -- there's got to be more dignity and nobility for our (often violent) little existence in the cosmos.

And for those (for whom I have respect and affection) who say that there is no chance of the common man defending himself against "the government" (our own government, or invaders) anyway -- that fact is called into question by what's been going on in Iraq for the last several years.  If our government (or any) was so effective,  thus making it  futile to fight against them, that "war" would have been over in three days.

I know that, after a century of relative comfort, we tend to think we are outside the course of hsitory (I've often felt that myself) -- but we are not. 

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ORIGINAL: Raechard

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
And I cant think of a time in mine, my family or my friends lives where they needed a gun to protect themselves, what is it that you are protecting yourself against?

I've yet to be in a car accident. I think that's a poor argument for not wearing my seat belt.

Not many people seem to be walking around with body armour either considering their real fears for random violence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

As to people breaking into houses to attack people or rob their possessions, how good is your household security ?

Here in Britain, houses are pretty secure, that is during the day when we are in, the external door is locked, at night, dead locked and often with other bolts and things securing the door. Windows tend to have locking devices on them as well. Often it is under the terms of household insurance, to reduce claims made against them, they insist on recognised methods of reliable household security and in nearly all cases expect alarm systems based upon eith passive or active IR sensors positioned in the logical places.

Not only that, but doors, windows and frames have moved on a long way over the years, UPVC being the norm with toughened double glazed glass units, not the easiest things to break at the best of times. Modern houses, and all security measures taken, people inside are pretty secure these days.

I live in an older property, but still, when I am in there, the external door is locked and chained, chained such that if I have to open the door to anyone, I do have a rather hefty chain preventing the door from being slammed open.

Automobiles, never do I leave them unlocked, in fact, nothing, if it has a lock, then if not in use, it is locked.

Though there are instances with nutters getting into properties to cause problems, it is often they gain entry through a break down in security.

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ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Then if the reason for the ' Right to bear arms ' is in case of your government gets out of hand, no one should be actively, daily carrying a gun, you should have them all locked away at home, just in case, that what if ever happens.

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ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Then if the reason for the ' Right to bear arms ' is in case of your government gets out of hand, no one should be actively, daily carrying a gun, you should have them all locked away at home, just in case, that what if ever happens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Then if the reason for the ' Right to bear arms ' is in case of your government gets out of hand, no one should be actively, daily carrying a gun, you should have them all locked away at home, just in case, that what if ever happens.

quote:


These people write fiction.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
And I cant think of a time in mine, my family or my friends lives where they needed a gun to protect themselves, what is it that you are protecting yourself against?

I've yet to be in a car accident. I think that's a poor argument for not wearing my seat belt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

People gaining entry by forcible means, I do understand the need if something is available to 'repel boarders', but what is the aim, this is where the law gets fuzzy, for they say, reasonable force, that being a force which is reasonable to be applied to stop the action happening. But what is the action, the intruders deciding not to carry out their actions, or the intruders deciding to get the hell out of the situation, how much force is necessary in each situation, what is reasonable force for the desired effect, what is the desired effect ? To most of us, that is intruders not gaining entry in the first place, a weapon should be an absolute last resort when bodily harm is threatened, in which case, harm is equal to harm, like for like.

That is the reality of the situation, as it happens on a day to day basis, not the reality the police and law courts  in a so called lawful society will look at the situation, until your case is proved. There is no point in spending x years in prison for protecting yourself with the wrong level of force, using deadly force when all that was required was for an intruder to be aware you are armed and with intent to use the arm if they, the intruder does not desist in their actions.

Personally though, my feelings are that if anyone overcomes all your security to gain access to your home to carry out whatever when they are inside to whoever, they deserve all they get, as to me, my home is where the heart is, mine and that of my family, a locked door denies entry, ignore the denial and they deserve whatever comes their way. This, I feel, though the lawmakers have to be careful, is a situation where they should be more considerate of a person's human right to protect themselves and their loved ones.