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slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 8:07:29 AM   
AmbrosialWench


Posts: 50
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline 		This is for all slaves(Gorean or Non-Gorean). If you were unhappy for an extended amount of time, would you stop being a slave and leave your master? Many slaves state they are there to make their Master happy and others telling slaves to stop whining and be the slave they signed up for. One Master stated ". The slave of a Gorean man is only able to walk away if she isn't being adequately mastered.  If she is, then it doesn't matter so much whether he is a total ass or an utter saint, a paragon of virtue or a cad.  She's owned, she's his, and truly isn't capable of mustering the power to walk."  This sounded to me like a battered woman. Abused women cannot muster the power to walk and I would pressume the M/s and gorean community would not see the man as being a Master.
I would love to hear from slaves and Masters, where the slave is not being fulfilled/happy, that cannot leave because slaves do not have the authority to make that choice and there Master refuses to set them free. 

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 8:12:07 AM   
monywildcat


Posts: 452
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline 		I may not identify as a slave, but I do identify as a person first and foremost.  If I were in a dynamic/relationship that was no longer fulfilling, I would hope that I have the ability to do some problem-solving and help to resolve the situation.  If said relationship turned into an abusive one, and I was at the point where I am no longer safe, then I have the ability to leave.  I don't care if "Master" has a great big D or a great big Gorean G on his chest and it blinked.  I'm out.  Life's too short.  I am interested in seeing other points of view on this topic.  I hope some Doms, and Masters, and Gorean Masters chime in as well. 

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(in reply to AmbrosialWench)
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RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 8:13:16 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AmbrosialWench

". The slave of a Gorean man is only able to walk away if she isn't being adequately mastered.  If she is, then it doesn't matter so much whether he is a total ass or an utter saint, a paragon of virtue or a cad.  She's owned, she's his, and truly isn't capable of mustering the power to walk." 



i find this laughable.
 I gave my consent to be where i am, and i can withdrawl it. He can do the same.


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(in reply to AmbrosialWench)
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RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 8:20:16 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I have the authority to determine my happiness and well-being. regardless of master/ownership.

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“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
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(in reply to AmbrosialWench)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 8:20:50 AM   
leakylee


Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		ok, i am not Gorean, but to my way of thinking you are a woman first. your first duty is to maintain your owners property physically, mentally, psych. now if your owner isnt capable of living up to his end of the bargin. then it is your duty to the woman, and any future you have, and or want for yourself to continue the same maintainance. in my opinion, it should come from inside. from a place of pride in the woman, in the submissive, and the slave. our first duty is still to ourselves when we take back our reins.

smooches
lee

_____________________________

I am so not right, that I left..

(in reply to AmbrosialWench)
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RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 8:23:25 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		WHat Holly said. 



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(in reply to sirsholly)
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RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 8:34:42 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I think this is a question that could apply to any type of relationship.

Some people, those who identify as slaves, and others, leave relationships if they're not happy.  Others may stay because they believe they can't make it alone, or they feel obligated to their original "vow" even if they're miserable in the relationship.

I'm one of those people who believes the choice to stay in a relationship (of any kind)  should be a continual one, and it should be based upon feeling contentment or fulfillment in the relationship.  I think, if a person isn't happy, they aren't going to bring anything positive into the life of their partner anyway.    

And if a person doesn't feel like they're capable of walking away, I'd question their ability to consent to the relationship in the first place.

(in reply to AmbrosialWench)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 8:40:02 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I am a female Dominant and honestly if my property were not happy and they wanted out, I would want him/her to leave. I do not want to own someone who doesn't want to be my property. However, I have heard from many slaves/subs (in chatrooms and 1 I know personally) state that they don't know IF they could leave no matter how badly they were treated. The reason most stated for this was the fear of not finding another Owner

So my stance on it is this, if you are unhappy, feel abused or just not were you want to be, it is time to move on. No quotes from books do not make a person stay, their own mind does that.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to AmbrosialWench)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 9:02:52 AM   
MRandme


Posts: 661
Joined: 9/24/2007
Status: offline 		Firstly, a girl chooses who she becomes a slave to, Gorean or otherwise. If she chooses well, then there is no issue. In Gorean terms, if a Man Masters a woman completely, she finds herself unable to leave, not because He has beaten her to the point that she is brainwashed into serving, but because the masculine domination in Him brings out the natural female urges she has to serve. (this is not to say that all females have this urge but that she does -- or she would not be His slave).

Being Mastered means that the girl cannot imagine living without serving Him. she cannot leave because He fulfills a need in her.

The part that sticks out to me is The slave of a Gorean man is only able to walk away if she isn't being adequately mastered. If a girl is having issues that affect her happiness, brings them to her Master and He is unwilling or unable to resolve them, then she isn't being adequately Mastered. A good Master takes care of His property's basic needs, physical and emotional, and i f He is unable or unwilling to do that, will release the girl.

i dislike the idea that a girl can just walk out and find another Dom/Master because she is unhappy for the moment. No relationship is perfect and if there is communication, things can be worked out. (not talking about abusive relationships). A Master is not a puzzle piece that can be replaced, nor is a slave.

g



_____________________________

And thus i conclude with a wish you go well,
Sweet be your dreams, may your happiness swell,
I'll leave you here, for my journey begins
i've gone to be with Him again...

(in reply to sirsholly)
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RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 9:15:58 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

If you were unhappy for an extended amount of time, would you stop being a slave and leave your master?


bringing Master joy and pleasure makes this slave happy...if this slave's efforts to bring Him joy and pleasure were instead causing Him to be unhappy, and since He isn't into forcing someone who makes Him unhappy to remain with Him, this slave would hazard a guess that He would be gone before she had a chance to leave.

quote:

Abused women cannot muster the power to walk


disagree with you there...some can...and have.  some also get past the abuse of their past and go on to participate in fulfilling relationships in the here and now.

(in reply to AmbrosialWench)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 9:25:22 AM   
utopicus


Posts: 97
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		There's so much besides a mere contract, as respect and mutual fulfilment. If one party cannot derive any "satisfaction" from the status quo, then they should walk away.
Erotic slavery is different than what happened up until the nineteenth century... thank God!
I know of a case wherein a slave told her Mistress "no more, from now on we are just friends!", and the Mistress bowed, whatever her majesty or might... Nobody is bound for life, that's for sure.

(in reply to AmbrosialWench)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 9:43:42 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

If you were unhappy for an extended amount of time, would you stop being a slave and leave your master?


bringing Master joy and pleasure makes this slave happy...if this slave's efforts to bring Him joy and pleasure were instead causing Him to be unhappy, and since He isn't into forcing someone who makes Him unhappy to remain with Him, this slave would hazard a guess that He would be gone before she had a chance to leave.

quote:

Abused women cannot muster the power to walk


disagree with you there...some can...and have.  some also get past the abuse of their past and go on to participate in fulfilling relationships in the here and now.

I agree with beth.  SOME abused women can and do "walk" and then "get past the abuse" and go on to have "fulfilling relationships in the here and now."  I know I have.  It feels wonderful!...............luci

_____________________________

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 9:58:56 AM   
nothingz


Posts: 1
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		In my opinion, in any relationship, all parties unhappy should have the option to end the relationship, if every effort has been made to make the relationship work. In a Master-slave relationship many times the slave may feel he-she is unable to beg for release, however, I would hope the Master would recognize there is something terribly wrong in the relationship, surely the dominant force in the relationship would recognize the submissive-slave was not happy? I would hesitate to call anyone Master whose slave begged for release and his or her Master did nothing to change the state of the relationship and continued to keep an unhappy slave, just because they can.

(in reply to AmbrosialWench)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 11:03:31 AM   
natasha66


Posts: 321
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: NJ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AmbrosialWench

She's owned, she's his, and truly isn't capable of mustering the power to walk." 



What utter crap.....the "Master" who said that needs to buy a clue.  Slaves/subs don't generally check their brains at the door.

_____________________________

"If you bother me again I shall visit you in the small hours of the night and put a bat up your nightdress".
~Basil Fawlty

Collared June 4th, 2008
Love is giving him the power to destroy you, but trusting him not to.



(in reply to AmbrosialWench)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 11:20:16 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
quote:

Abused women cannot muster the power to walk


disagree with you there...some can...and have.  some also get past the abuse of their past and go on to participate in fulfilling relationships in the here and now.


Ditto.  Abused women can and do walk away, and thank you for stating what so few seem able to recognize.   Just because someone was in a abusive relationship, doesn't mean they are damaged and incapable of being involved in a healthy one.


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 11:29:42 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmbrosialWench

". The slave of a Gorean man is only able to walk away if she isn't being adequately mastered.  If she is, then it doesn't matter so much whether he is a total ass or an utter saint, a paragon of virtue or a cad.  She's owned, she's his, and truly isn't capable of mustering the power to walk." 



i find this laughable.
I gave my consent to be where i am, and i can withdrawl it. He can do the same.



If you remove the word Gorean...and say it this way,

". The slave... is only able to walk away if they aren't being adequately mastered.  If the slave is mastered, then it doesn't matter so much whether the Master is a total ass or an utter saint, a paragon of virtue or a cad.  The slave is owned, he/she belongs to the one who has mastered him/her, and truly isn't capable of mustering the DESIRE to walk." 

That is how I read the phrase, and the perspective by which I approach the philosphy. 

My apologies to AmbrosiaWench for rewording her OP, I am not attempting to speak for her, merely offering how I view the concept that I see as integral to the phrase.


(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 11:30:38 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Many women do, and maybe most do eventually, but many do not.  I think it's important to recognize that typing "I would immediately leave if my partner abused me!" in a thread on Collarme is a whole lot easier than really doing it.  That's why abuse is such a hot-button topic, after all (as we've recently witnessed in the forums); if abused women typically ended relationships at the first instance of abuse, there would be a lot less abuse in the world.  So why do abused women stay in abusive relationships?  There's a host of reasons and they vary from case to case.

quote:


ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Abused women can and do walk away


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 12/28/2008 11:43:14 AM >

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 11:30:53 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MRandme

Firstly, a girl chooses who she becomes a slave to, Gorean or otherwise. If she chooses well, then there is no issue. In Gorean terms, if a Man Masters a woman completely, she finds herself unable to leave, not because He has beaten her to the point that she is brainwashed into serving, but because the masculine domination in Him brings out the natural female urges she has to serve. (this is not to say that all females have this urge but that she does -- or she would not be His slave).

Being Mastered means that the girl cannot imagine living without serving Him. she cannot leave because He fulfills a need in her.

The part that sticks out to me is The slave of a Gorean man is only able to walk away if she isn't being adequately mastered. If a girl is having issues that affect her happiness, brings them to her Master and He is unwilling or unable to resolve them, then she isn't being adequately Mastered. A good Master takes care of His property's basic needs, physical and emotional, and i f He is unable or unwilling to do that, will release the girl.

i dislike the idea that a girl can just walk out and find another Dom/Master because she is unhappy for the moment. No relationship is perfect and if there is communication, things can be worked out. (not talking about abusive relationships). A Master is not a puzzle piece that can be replaced, nor is a slave.

g


ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!  the highlighted part is the part i like best.

(in reply to MRandme)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 11:37:56 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		Yes sir, of those facts I'm intimately aware.  My reference was to the post that stated abused women could not muster the will to leave. The premise was faulty, and I believed correcting it was important.  I didn't see carrying the debate from other threads to this one as relevent, nor polite, so I refrained from doing so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Many women do, and many most do eventually, but many do not.  I think it's important to recognize that typing "I would immediately leave if my partner abused me!" in a thread on Collarme is a whole lot easier than really doing it.  That's why abuse is such a hot-button topic, after all (as we've recently witnessed in the forums); if abused women typically ended relationships at the first instance of abuse, there would be a lot less abuse in the world.  So why do abused women stay in abusive relationships?  There's a host of reasons and they vary from case to case.

quote:


ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Abused women can and do walk away


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: slaves ability to leave - 12/28/2008 11:46:26 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		If I were unhappy, I would leave. Life is too short to deal with assholes.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to AmbrosialWench)
Profile   Post #: 20
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