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RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 12/31/2008 10:17:05 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

If you make porn that is actually interesting to dominant women, you will make some of them unhappy because they will no longer be able to complain that all porn is directed at men. See some women find more entertainment in complaining about porn than in watching porn ;-)

Seriously, I think most decisions result from a cost-benefit analysis (often achieved subconsciously with a mix of rational and emotional reasoning). It seems this balance is not drawing many voices amongst women.

Personally, I think there are differences in what men and women would enjoy in porn. I think the best approach would be to create the porn more towards the receptive market (men) and to give it as broad appeal as feasible to reach beyond this market.

Incidentally, in a post not too long ago, I mentioned English Mansion as a website for femdom porn. I received this recommendation from a domme.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to Coupleofwhats)

Post #: 21

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 12/31/2008 10:22:49 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

I love porn, but I am a renter, not a buyer. I also avoid downloading stuff to my hard drive, Just Because.

Some hot m/m stuff... I would watch it!

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[page 23 girl]

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 22

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 12/31/2008 10:49:14 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coupleofwhats

OK, so I managed to hook up with an awesome videographer, and have been dipping my toe into the world o' kinky filmmaking. The production value's pretty high (nice outfits, cool location, handsome submissives, quality editing) and I've got a buttload of ideas.

I know I can sell these videos to guys. They'll buy videos of pretty girls brushing their teeth. (Really! There's a section on a porn site devoted entirely to toothbrushing.)

What I want to know is: what about the ladies?
Every time I talk about porn (er...I mean... erotica) with other women, they say "Oh, if they made porn that was nicer/classier/more story-based/more focused on showing the man, I would be interested." Yet, when titles come out that are geared towards women, they languish on the shelves. And everyone is always meaning to get around to checking it out. (And I include myself! I've been meaning to order several specific DVDs for months now.)

So, if someone made it, would you buy it? Honestly?
I wanna know.

(And I'm making it easy by offering the videos directly: no need to order a DVD!)

The reason they sit on shelves is that women don't know higher quality exists.

Also women spend money on other things -- I'm betting women buy more romance/erotica books than men for example.

Would I buy it myself? No. As a reviewer I receive so many things to review that I rarely have time to do things for pleasure any more between reviews, teaching, my own writing, and my household.

-- Hold on. I'm about to rant. --

Marketing is everything. Let me repeat that. MARKETING IS EVERYTHING.

These last two books of mine are selling like crap not because no one is interested, the previous several books sold thousands of copies each and these can barely do 200 a year?!

What's the difference? MARKETING and getting books into venues.

If people do not know your product exists and can not get it easily, they will not get it at all. Period, end of story, there is honestly no much more to it than that.

Think about it. You have something, anything, that is absolute crap but you market it well and you get it into a lot of stores, you will sell it. Maybe not millions but you will sell it.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Coupleofwhats)

Post #: 23

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 12/31/2008 11:42:16 AM

slavekal

Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline

Even as a lowly male, I don't buy just anything and everything. One thing that turns me off fast is ridiculous, farfetched plots. I have never understood why some producers see the need to add a storyline that is completely divorced from any reality.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Coupleofwhats)

Post #: 24

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 12/31/2008 2:25:18 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

Damn but this thread is a bummer. Not surprising, though.

Mika Tan has just started a new company, with the objective of casting Asian men as sexually aggressive (and competent) beings, instead of the almost universal media stereotypes of (1) asexual martial artists, or (2) limp-dick nerds. When I learned about that, I was very happy, because the anti-fetish against Asian men is at least as prevalent as the fetish for Asian women, and it's a rampaging example of racism in 21st century America. However...... it's not at all clear to me that her venture can be short-term profitable. There's no immediate, right-away market. So hopefully she is sufficiently capitalized that she can sustain a marketing plan that's a couple years long.

I think you're looking at the same thing, Eliza. You probably need some financial staying power, because with a different sort of product, you're not guaranteed any instamatic sales. Good luck.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to slavekal)

Post #: 25

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 12/31/2008 2:56:01 PM

ShaktiSama

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Speaking solely for myself--I'm not very interested in ANY artwork which is made entirely out of cynical desire to make a buck. If you make some videos that actually turn YOU on and please YOU as a dominant woman, if these scenes and images make YOU want to masturbate because they express YOUR fantasies and desires and needs? Then yes, I might be interested in seeing them and yes, I would want to even if I had to spend a few dollars to download them.

On the other hand, stuff that doesn't appeal to or express the fetishes and desires of the producer and participants is always worthless, and isn't even good by the standards of porn (which are notoriously low). It isn't porn or erotica in general that turns me off and slams my wallet shut. It's cynicism and greed.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to Coupleofwhats)

Post #: 26

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 12/31/2008 3:38:41 PM

TexasMaam

Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

I'd love to see some creative porn with LOTS of men in bondage. Creative positions, binding techniques and/or materials I haven't tried ......I'd have manthing buy it for Me, though.

Yes - a rigging dvd would be HUGE fun, especially if you can get Matt McConahey (have NO idea how he spells that but I know what he looks like!) to star in it.....that little movie of his with Matt bound in a chair just didn't go far enough!

TM

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 12/31/2008 3:41:44 PM >

_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to Coupleofwhats)

Post #: 27

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 12/31/2008 3:44:51 PM

T1981

Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

Some of my favorite "The Training of O" scenes don't have any actual sex or overtly sexual acts being done in the scene, they are instead simply talking the slave through an activity, or coaxing them (either gently or roughly) through whatever activity is being done. It's porn for the brain which is always yummy.

It's easy to get a scene set up where people are beating each other, but engage the actual psychology of the situation and I'm sold.

(in reply to TexasMaam)

Post #: 28

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 12/31/2008 6:18:28 PM

AlexandraLynch

Posts: 778
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline

I prefer to read my porn rather than watch it.

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Just because I'm not a bitch doesn't mean I'm not perfectly capable of making sure you'll be very sorry if you disobey.

(in reply to Coupleofwhats)

Post #: 29

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 12/31/2008 11:51:45 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

I will pay for m/m bondage porn if it's well done. Other posters have echoed my feelings on it. I find that anything directed toward a male audience (in femdom) focuses too much on the femdom, and does not eroticize the sub. He needs to be attractive, have a pleasant body, and *react*. That's what pushes my buttons personally.

I've raved about this film before, "Punish Me." The scene will probably be taken off Youtube very soon, so take a look quick - and buy the movie from Amazon, it's fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coHSSjXduKY

This actor does it for me; the eyes, body language, breathing. He has a presence in his surrender. I could watch this for days.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Coupleofwhats)

Post #: 30

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 1/1/2009 4:25:25 PM

TermsConditions

Posts: 446
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I've raved about this film before, "Punish Me." The scene will probably be taken off Youtube very soon, so take a look quick - and buy the movie from Amazon, it's fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coHSSjXduKY

This actor does it for me; the eyes, body language, breathing. He has a presence in his surrender. I could watch this for days.

Akasha

It should be taken down. The boy depicted is 16 years old.

"What she did was wrong. It could have had tremendously negative consequences. If it was a guy doing it to a young girl, no one thinks for a moment about how inappropriate it is; yet, if it's a woman doing it to a young boy, it's erotic fodder."

"I'm a very passionate person when it comes to child abuse and molestation."

Ironically, if the boy depiced in the film later posted his story on CM seeking help and advice in processing the experience he would be shouted down and made a pariah for inappropriately sexualizing his own abuse.

< Message edited by TermsConditions -- 1/1/2009 4:33:41 PM >

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 31

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 1/1/2009 5:24:40 PM

MistressRouge

Posts: 876
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
Status: offline

I produce my own films, and always film scenes with my slaves that I enjoy.

Porn that I like watching for a sexual "get off" will always be male on male films, Dom/sub, BDSM some a bit more hardcore. I also like watching some of the more crude films like roman showers, scat yet I like to watch that female on female, those brazilian girls phwooar

.

I suppose my porn kicks are far from the soft girl on girl films that many males think ALL women like. I do that in real life anyway :), so I would rather be "doing", rather then watching girl on girl does nothing for me.

I also agree with The Training of O comment, I do enjoy watching those films too, especially the mind control aspect, the interrogations, and I have actually learned some new techniques/skills watching them.

< Message edited by MistressRouge -- 1/1/2009 5:26:52 PM >

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(in reply to TermsConditions)

Post #: 32

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 1/1/2009 5:25:15 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TermsConditions

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I've raved about this film before, "Punish Me." The scene will probably be taken off Youtube very soon, so take a look quick - and buy the movie from Amazon, it's fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coHSSjXduKY

This actor does it for me; the eyes, body language, breathing. He has a presence in his surrender. I could watch this for days.

Akasha

It should be taken down. The boy depicted is 16 years old.

"What she did was wrong. It could have had tremendously negative consequences. If it was a guy doing it to a young girl, no one thinks for a moment about how inappropriate it is; yet, if it's a woman doing it to a young boy, it's erotic fodder."

"I'm a very passionate person when it comes to child abuse and molestation."

Ironically, if the boy depiced in the film later posted his story on CM seeking help and advice in processing the experience he would be shouted down and made a pariah for inappropriately sexualizing his own abuse.

Calm down. It is a studio produced feature film (I believe award winning) and the actor is of legal age. Geez. It's make believe. I enjoy the sensuality of the interaction between the two characters (I have commented on this film on other threads before). Rent or buy the film before you get your panties in a wad. The reason it gets yanked from Youtube is because the studio is on top of copyright enforcement.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to TermsConditions)

Post #: 33

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 1/1/2009 5:35:53 PM

TermsConditions

Posts: 446
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline

If I have over re-acted, forgive me.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0488903/

Writer Susanne Billig and director Angelina Maccarone (note: two very talented women!) have concocted a tale of disparate matching between a 50-year-old woman and a 16-year-old boy, a relationship that builds on sadomasochism as a means of filling voids in each character.

_____________________________

TnC
Married, Novice Subbish-Type Person
and rider of the Drama Llama.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 34

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 1/1/2009 5:40:02 PM

MistressRouge

Posts: 876
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: TermsConditions

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I've raved about this film before, "Punish Me." The scene will probably be taken off Youtube very soon, so take a look quick - and buy the movie from Amazon, it's fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coHSSjXduKY

This actor does it for me; the eyes, body language, breathing. He has a presence in his surrender. I could watch this for days.

Akasha

It should be taken down. The boy depicted is 16 years old.

"What she did was wrong. It could have had tremendously negative consequences. If it was a guy doing it to a young girl, no one thinks for a moment about how inappropriate it is; yet, if it's a woman doing it to a young boy, it's erotic fodder."

"I'm a very passionate person when it comes to child abuse and molestation."

Ironically, if the boy depiced in the film later posted his story on CM seeking help and advice in processing the experience he would be shouted down and made a pariah for inappropriately sexualizing his own abuse.

Calm down. It is a studio produced feature film (I believe award winning) and the actor is of legal age. Geez. It's make believe. I enjoy the sensuality of the interaction between the two characters (I have commented on this film on other threads before). Rent or buy the film before you get your panties in a wad. The reason it gets yanked from Youtube is because the studio is on top of copyright enforcement.

Akasha

I for one, will be ordering this film, thanks for the share it's HAWT

_____________________________

My Members Site.
http://mistressrougeuk.c4slive.com/

http://www.clips4sale.com/store/13392

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 35

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 1/1/2009 6:00:47 PM

TermsConditions

Posts: 446
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline

So molestation is in the eye of the beholder now that you are the beholder? Or maybe it's just sexier on film instead of someone else's first hand?

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

It's only my opinion, but it seems that many men tend to eroticize situations like this one (older woman in authority, young male, sexual situation) and forget to realize it's essentially child abuse, it's sexually inappropriate, and it's unhealthy. Whether or not you "turned out ok" or it was a bad thing is not relevant. You did not have a choice. What she did was wrong. It could have had tremendously negative consequences. If it was a guy doing it to a young girl, no one thinks for a moment about how inappropriate it is; yet, if it's a woman doing it to a young boy, it's erotic fodder.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TermsConditions

I wasn't honest with you earlier. I was really upset by your response. Is this the same response you would post if a woman revealed this to you? I guess I'm a big strong man and I should just suck it up.

Pointing out that it's child abuse, check. Therapy is a good thing to look into, right. Probably not good to eroticize but you're just a man, I'm on board.

"It made me want to throw up." WTF? This is my deepest, darkest. I have never, never, ever, ever, told anyone at all ever. I posted, that I was working up to sharing this story with my spouse and hoping she would not be repulsed by it. Well you know, it made Aakasha want to throw up and she's probably seen guys pay perfectly good money to get thrown up on, so it must be pretty messed up and Mrs. Vanilla Bean is NEVER gonna be able to take it.
This is not the fluffy bunny forum this is the grinding heels into his balls forum. I let myself forget that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I'm a very passionate person when it comes to child abuse and molestation. I was being honest. Now you need to get angry and defensive over one line, the fact that what I read made me feel ill? Do what you need to do. What SHE did makes me want to throw up. You were the victim. Be careful who you get angry at. Seek therapy.

Akasha

< Message edited by TermsConditions -- 1/1/2009 6:18:03 PM >

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 36

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 1/1/2009 6:22:10 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

It's cynicism and greed.

Very good analysis, and I agree.

Although, in my case, cynicism and greed is okay...
... so long as it's not directed at the viewer/buyer ...
... which it usually is.

Otherwise, I prefer reading, and find accidental chemistry between actors in regular movies and series to be far more erotic and/or arousing than most porn ever created.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

Post #: 37

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 1/2/2009 12:02:24 AM

aidan

Posts: 904
Joined: 5/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TermsConditions

So molestation is in the eye of the beholder now that you are the beholder? Or maybe it's just sexier on film instead of someone else's first hand?

Dude, the film's leading man was about 23 when the movie was filmed, so no foul play there. And if you actually watch the movie, he is the one who initiates the relationship with the leading lady.

Molestation is a serious injury, yes, but when you get to the 16-18 mark, especially with males, it becomes a great deal murkier.

And finally, the age of consent in Germany, where the film was shot, is 16. Exactly the age of the character in question.

_____________________________

Do what now?

"I aim to misbehave."
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(in reply to TermsConditions)

Post #: 38

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 1/2/2009 12:06:17 AM

ShaktiSama

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TermsConditions

So molestation is in the eye of the beholder now that you are the beholder? Or maybe it's just sexier on film instead of someone else's first hand?

If you haven't seen the film, I can understand why you might think that the two situations are analogous--but they really are not.

In many respects, chronological age is just a number if it does not reflect emotional and sexual maturity. The boy in the film we are discussing has the one important thing that the boy in your story lacked--agency. Regardless of his chronological age, (and as I recall, the boy in your story was 13, not 16), the boy in the film is a voluntary partner in the BDSM relationship with an older woman. He pursues her and interacts with her of his own will, trying to meet his own masochistic and submissive needs.

The boy in your story, despite experiencing sexual arousal and pleasure, was very distinctly a victim. He had a crush on the girl in question, but he did not initiate the activity or imagine submitting to her prior to being molested by her. He did not even understand half of the sexual material to which he was being subjected in the porn she showed him. And he did not remember that experience with pleasure or poignant nostalgia, later in life--the memory of that abuse made him weep with pain and confusion.

Grown-up, sane dominant women do not enjoy being associated with such abuse and the long-term damage it can cause. Even if the boy in your story had been 21, the dynamic you described would have been morally wrong and reprehensible given that he had so little emotional and sexual maturity, and so little ability to give legitimate consent. The deciding factor in whether to play with someone in ANY sexual way, but especially BDSM play, has got to be agency and the ability to consent to BDSM in a meaningful way.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to TermsConditions)

Post #: 39

RE: Porn & Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is - 1/2/2009 12:52:09 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: TermsConditions

So molestation is in the eye of the beholder now that you are the beholder? Or maybe it's just sexier on film instead of someone else's first hand?

If you haven't seen the film, I can understand why you might think that the two situations are analogous--but they really are not.

In many respects, chronological age is just a number if it does not reflect emotional and sexual maturity. The boy in the film we are discussing has the one important thing that the boy in your story lacked--agency. Regardless of his chronological age, (and as I recall, the boy in your story was 13, not 16), the boy in the film is a voluntary partner in the BDSM relationship with an older woman. He pursues her and interacts with her of his own will, trying to meet his own masochistic and submissive needs.

What an unbelievable crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this had been a film about a 50 year-old man and a 16 year-old girl every woman on these boards would be screaming about how a 16 year-old doesn't have the maturity to make those decisions, not to mention screaming about exploitation and decrying porn in general. As we have seen numerous threads to attest to.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

Post #: 40

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