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RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 5:14:26 AM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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There's little doubt in my mind that it is by far best to be upfront as early as possible, both because you dont want to risk a kicking and also because it makes for a much simpler life to not get entangled with people who have problems with your genetics.

But beware. This will mean very, very few dates. Because for the vast majority of the population your genetics are a problem and as far as most of the remainder go, theyre mainly "tranny fanciers" - the sort of men who like you for what you were rather than what you are and with whom you'd probably rather not associate. It is a one in a million that you might find someone who doesnt have a problem and isnt a slimeball.

And of that one in a million you have to be very, very lucky indeed to find that this same person has an accepting family too and is willing to risk being ostracised for you. And then, if this person is male, very lucky on top of that if he is willing to undergo the merciless insults and humilations from his male friends about him not being able to get a real woman and him being a closet gay.

Our problem boils down to two facts - the first being that we're not women and we're not men. This may prompt responses about seeking dates with other trans people and lead us into the arms of those who hang around trans venues and seek us out for what we were. The second fact being that we dont want to be regarded as men, inbetweenies, freaks or whatever but as women and wanted as such. We want to be normal and we never will be except in our selves.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 41

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 5:31:10 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gretademille
I feel I am entitled to enjoy what so many women and men take for granted.

No, you are not - unless the man you date grants you that entitlement.

For my part: I do not date people with a penis, whether male or female. (Actually I have never dated.) I do accept women that are born in a man's body, I can socialize with them - but I do not date them.

I do not get mad often, but I can well imagine that normal men that are lied to in that way do and might get violent. If you are a masochist, then do go ahead with your lying ways.

(in reply to gretademille)

Post #: 42

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 5:38:37 AM

MissIsis

Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline

I have to tell you, that most men are interested in just plain sex, bdsm, or otherwise, not all, but most that I have met or talked to. Even my plain old guy friends tell me that is all most guys think about & sex is their ultimate goal. It's something almost all women deal with.

While I agree that every conversation you start with someone doesn't necessarily mean you need to disclose immediately, I will tell you, and of course, this is only one women's point of view, that I don't just casually date anyone. If I agree to date anyone, it is generally because I am considering something more serious than just that one date. (Maybe, on occasion, this doesn't take into consideration the plain old coffee date, which may be simply to meet someone local, to see if we want to hang out.)

Yours may be one of those situations where you have many conversations & get to know someone a bit before agreeing to meet with them. You can feel out a person's views on things that may be important to you, to see if there is going to be a compatibility issue. You can bring it up, by talking about a friend you know who has been going through what you are going through. You can talk about your concern for the person & I bet it will be pretty easy to see what the person you are considering feels about the whole issue of transgender.

I'll never forget once when I was part of a couple. I met a women. We were both considering her. When it came time to meet the him part of my couple, my heart ached for her, as she told me about her transgender issue. At the same time, I had to deal with my partner's issues with the whole thing. His react was not good. In the end, we both felt deceived. I was more understanding, but waiting till we wanted to meet her, was not the time to tell us. All three of us were hurt by the whole issue. The thing is that she & I could have had a nice friendship with or without him being involved, but the lack of honesty in the beginning really ruined any chance of even salvaging that.

I really do wish you the very best in your search. I am sure there are more open minded people. I am sorry for you that they are so difficult to find.

(in reply to gretademille)

Post #: 43

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 5:46:35 AM

T1981

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Joined: 12/6/2008
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I think it makes a huge difference, as other posters have said, on the type of "date" you are going on.

I've met an intersexed gal before, and the only way I know she was intersexed was because she brought it up within the first five minutes of the conversation. It was a little odd, NOT because she was intersexed, but because the conversation was happening while I was 1) at work 2) had literally never seen her before she walked into the store. We weren't flirting and it was obvious that there was no intention of anything happening other than a short conversation between myself and a customer.

Now if I had asked her out on a serious date, one in which I believed there might be something more romantic and/or sexual happening, then it wouldn't have been so strange and her honesty would have been very appreciated. But coming as it was, just right out the blue, did sort of tilt me off balance. The term "appropriete disclosure" sort of thing....

_____________________________

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(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 44

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 5:49:53 AM

sirsholly

Posts: 42360
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From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gretademille
I feel I am entitled to enjoy what so many women and men take for granted.

you are NOT entitled to play someone in that manner. Sorry...you are not.

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(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 45

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 6:19:42 AM

MmeGigs

Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gretademille
Please don't call yourself fat!!!! You are a nice and volouptuous woman and you should never put yourself down like that!

Bless your heart. Acknowledging that I'm chubby doesn't mean I don't think I'm cute.

edited to add:
I asked where you are, but the more I think about it, the more I don't know that it matters. We've all got stuff that might scare off a date or potential partner. We've all got to make our own call about when we spill. Folks seem to have some pretty strong ideas about it, but it's really entirely up to you. Going back to what you asked about in the OP, telling or not telling won't make a difference in the number of men you come across who are just looking for sex.

< Message edited by MmeGigs -- 1/3/2009 7:01:17 AM >

(in reply to gretademille)

Post #: 46

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 7:17:05 AM

Evility

Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gretademille
I feel I am entitled to enjoy what so many women and men take for granted.

You cannot arbitrarily take away another person's right to make an informed decision particularly in regard to something as basic as gender. Tell these people sooner than later. I have never walked in your shoes and never will but this seems to be all about you with no concern for the other person's feelings.

Your therapist may be well intentioned but he or she is an idiot.

(in reply to gretademille)

Post #: 47

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 7:26:01 AM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gretademille

I DON T WANT to tell them on the first date. I might as well tell them that I've got rabies and/or children. People judge -it's a fact of life.

Rabies and/or children?
Really?
I have three children (no rabies yet) and I always told anyone I was interested in right away that I was a single mom with three children. This was during internet chatting, not during our first meet.
You are being selfish and foolish.
I would not even attempt a D/s relationship with someone who began it deceitfully.

ETA: HM says if you are allergic to seafood or don't like anal, that can wait. You have a penis? THAT He needs to know right away.

< Message edited by xxblushesxx -- 1/3/2009 7:33:12 AM >

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(in reply to gretademille)

Post #: 48

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 7:54:14 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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~ Fast Reply ~

You aren't 'entitled' to anything - nobody is. You get what your personal interactions, integrity, and trust worthiness; merits. What you earn through deception and deceit is never having experienced trust from the giving end - and certainly not on the receiving end. What is a relationship without trust? Is there a relationship built upon a foundation of fraud? Best case - how/when can your partner ever trust you or believe he/she knows you? Lying is the best way to set yourself up for failure.

Meeting someone with the intent of friendship or romance and starting that endeavor with deceit, fraud, with the best possible outcome a scene out of the 'Crying Game'; sound like a winning plan to you? Was that advice from your therapist or did you construct the question to get a response that could be rationalized into the answer of deception that you wanted to hear? Any therapist who gave that prescription would be legally complicit in any negative reaction to your ultimate disclosure or discovery, including your death. Next time, you're at the therapist - you may want check to see if the degree comes from the 'Cyber University of Ghana'.

However, there is one scenario where it may work. Many put on their profile that they are into 'mind-fucks'. Target them and they you can find the perfect partner that your 'therapist' recommends.

Good luck!

Edited to add:

This is too good a comment by my friend Stephan, not to point out again and amplify.

quote:

I'm nothing like anyone around me. I don't really care what other people want me to be like; I like who I am, and I am willing to disregard society for my beliefs. I don't want to convert the world to my beliefs, I just want my slice of acceptance from people worth knowing.

What's been the experience with the majority of the people on this venue when they 'disclosed' their lifestyle to a partner? Whether 'evolving' into it, 'discovering' it, or just trying to hide it from your partner, would you have rather avoided that even in the face of 'being yourself' and 'natural'?

The best thing about a site such as CM, is that it provides a base-line commonality to anyone you meet. There's a rainbow of variations regarding the specifics of that commonality; but its still a better starting point than asking "what's your sign?" at a bar.

If you are as confident as you represent in your identity as you portray you should have the same confidence that Stephan represents. Until you too can say; "I'm unique. I'm nothing like anyone around me. I don't really care what other people want me to be like; I like who I am, and I am willing to disregard society for my beliefs." you're 'entitled' to exactly what you've been receiving.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 1/3/2009 8:14:43 AM >

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 49

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 8:53:02 AM

UncleNasty

Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
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There are not different grades or levels of deception. There is no scale. There is simply a line in the sand.

White lies, lies of omission, little deceptions, blatant lies..... they are all on the wrong side of that line.

You have made a choice for yourself. I expect for you it was the best choice. There are consequences (and sometimes "pro"-sequences) for all the choices we make. Your choice has created some challenges. I feel you must needs deal with those challenges in the ways that value fully the people you are involved with. By with holding this important truth you are merely being abusive.

It is doubtful you will ever be able to establish a healthy long term relationship when the first thing you do is worry about concealing truth.

Uncle Nasty (still on the mend)

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 50

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 9:04:37 AM

gretademille

Posts: 6
Joined: 12/23/2008
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I personally think everybody is not answering my question. I live as a woman, I have job, I meet clients, people flirt with me, it's bound that something happens where feelings are involved, I'm asking HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE INTRODUCED TO THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE YOU ARE DATING AND/OR INTERESTED IN IS A TG WOMAN. So that it's non-threatening or makes you feel like a fool. So put your anger aside and answer the question if you can, if not keep your anger to yourself!

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 51

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 9:34:02 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
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Early disclosure, personally, I'd have no problem. THAT being said:

I think the point is that the timing would have some bearing on the reaction. If I were interested in you, romantically, and you hadnt disclosed that you were TG fairly early on in the courtship.. I'd be feeling EXTREMELY betrayed. NOT because I have an issue with TGs, but because by not telling me early on you have denied me the chance to make an informed decision as to whether or not I would want to continue courting you. IN essence, you have lied by omission.
If you left that out.. what ELSE would you be capable of not disclosing? Would I be able to trust you not to lie about other stuff?

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(in reply to gretademille)

Post #: 52

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 10:00:00 AM

sirsholly

Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gretademille

I personally think everybody is not answering my question. I live as a woman, I have job, I meet clients, people flirt with me, it's bound that something happens where feelings are involved, I'm asking HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE INTRODUCED TO THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE YOU ARE DATING AND/OR INTERESTED IN IS A TG WOMAN. So that it's non-threatening or makes you feel like a fool. So put your anger aside and answer the question if you can, if not keep your anger to yourself!

i think your question has been answered already...but i will give it a shot. If i am already dating someone and they blindside me with that info...i would feel lied to and highly pissed off. If i was interested in someone i would expect to be told in the 1-2 conversation.
As to HOW i would want to be told...with honesty.

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(in reply to gretademille)

Post #: 53

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 10:05:26 AM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gretademille

I personally think everybody is not answering my question. I live as a woman, I have job, I meet clients, people flirt with me, it's bound that something happens where feelings are involved, I'm asking HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE INTRODUCED TO THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE YOU ARE DATING AND/OR INTERESTED IN IS A TG WOMAN. So that it's non-threatening or makes you feel like a fool. So put your anger aside and answer the question if you can, if not keep your anger to yourself!

Actually, one of your first questions was "do you wait for the person to be into you and you into them before springing it on them?"

I think many people are responding to that question and telling you up front that it is deceitful, definitely not transparent, and that even if they had been open to the idea of dating a tg, the lie of omission would be enough for them to not consider you.

For me personally, my D/s relationships are built on trust.
Wait, strike that.
My relationships are built on trust.
Lying is a quick way out the door for me.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

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(in reply to gretademille)

Post #: 54

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 10:13:38 AM

igor2003

Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gretademille

I personally think everybody is not answering my question. I live as a woman, I have job, I meet clients, people flirt with me, it's bound that something happens where feelings are involved, I'm asking HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE INTRODUCED TO THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE YOU ARE DATING AND/OR INTERESTED IN IS A TG WOMAN. So that it's non-threatening or makes you feel like a fool. So put your anger aside and answer the question if you can, if not keep your anger to yourself!

First, I am really not interested in dating a TG person in general. However, I have seen/met a few that I would certainly at least consider the idea of dating them if the opportunity came up. I would definitely NOT want to date them several times before I found out about their situation. That should come up VERY soon after meeting them so that the decision was mine. I would hate to date someone several times only to have an acquaintance come up to me and say, "Bye the way, you DO know that person you have been dating is/was a man don't you?"

To answer your question more directly: If someone asks you out on a date that you are pretty sure is not aware of your situation I think you should suggest simply meeting them for coffee first so that you can get to know each other better before actually going out. At the coffee meeting let them know that you are flattered that they would like to go out with you, but that there are things they should know about you first. After telling them, if they still want to go out, great! If they don't want to go out most will at least be grateful that you had enough class to let them know up front. If they can't gracefully accept that, then you probably do not really want to go out with them anyway.

However you let them know I have to agree with the majority...the sooner you let them know the better for everyone involved.

(in reply to gretademille)

Post #: 55

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 10:15:13 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

so what you mean is "in what way would you prefer to be told?"

To be fair, I'm not sure there is any specific way - it could be broken gently perhaps, but the news is going to be equally devastating or of no account however its done.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 56

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 10:20:20 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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I have been thinking about this thread for a bit. How to word my feelings so the words convey accurately how I feel.

We have several women here on the site that have several types of non traditional (still not sure that is appropriate wording) gender specific issues. The information explaining it was readily available even though I was still unaware initially. I was unaware because A.) it is not a big deal to me, and B.) I don't cruise profiles of all posters, even those that I really like and enjoy. C.) AGAIN, it really doesn't matter to me. Yet it was available.

A couple of these women, if they were also interested, and local to me, I would definately want to get to know ALOT better. If something more than friendship came of that, I would definately not even think twice about their genitalia specifics.

The thing is, they made the information not only available, but even after becoming aware, I continued to get to know the women without the genitalia being of any importance to ME. The individual and who they are as a human being and woman, is what became most important. Yet, I would be an utter FOOL to forget their own unique life trials. It has impacted the women they are today. I am a person that feels our trials and difficulties and how we deal with them, makes us much more interesting. To me, they are only a negative if we make them so.

So, that being said. If I had to voice a preference, I would be open about it to anyone that is at all important in my life. Sure, there would be people that would be nasty. But you would know, that those that are in your life, are there because they like you, all of you. In addition, there wouldn't be the weight of carrying around the weight of that secret. How awful that would feel, I cannot imagine.

The reality is that you may feel you cannot live openly. That is your call. But if it were me, I would prefer to.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 1/3/2009 10:22:31 AM >

_____________________________

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 57

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 10:59:05 AM

sirsholly

Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
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quote:

BUT I DON T WANT to tell them on the first date. I might as well tell them that I've got rabies and/or children.

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(in reply to gretademille)

Post #: 58

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 11:16:25 AM

MmeGigs

Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: oakler
I'll be honest, I have many transgendered friends, so absorb my opinions as you see fit, but I really do feel that it is wrong to single out a particular attribute or type of person and hold them to a different standard.

Perhaps familiarity with transgendered people makes a difference in how folks see this. We have transgendered friends, and the folks we hang out with are rather flexible when it comes to gender and orientation.

I've tried to put myself in this situation. Back when I was single and actively looking, I chatted with fellows for a good long time before I ever met them. By the time we were face-to-face, I had told him a lot about myself and I felt like I knew him pretty well. I think that in that situation, I'd be unpleasantly surprised to hear during or after the first date that he is transgendered. There are a lot of other things I'd be unpleasantly surprised to hear at that point - that he's got young kids, that he lives with his mom, hat he's moving away in a few weeks,... If we've been laying the groundwork for a relationship, these things should have come out and I'll be irritated that they didn't. When I've had someone I've opened up to drop one of these bombs on me, I've felt misled and a bit taken advantage of. They weren't always dealbreakers, though. It always depended on the issue and the context.

These days I may not exchange more than a half a dozen emails with someone before asking if they'd like to meet. Sometimes my initial response to an email is to invite the sender to meet me at the local munch. The only thing I really care about right off is that he's willing to be seen in public with me. I'm not going to spend weeks or months trying to pry a nervous newbie out of his shell and I'm not interested in anything "discreet". All of the info sharing can wait until we meet, transgenderism included. Some stuff will be dealbreakers, some won't, but none of it will make me feel misled or taken advantage of and the thing that I have found to be the biggest hurdle - that initial meeting - will be out of the way.

Folks seem to differ a lot on when one ought to share that one is transgendered, but there does appear to be some concensus. It appears that most folks don't think that transgendered folk should have to wear a virtual scarlet letter, but do feel that this is information that should come out sooner rather than later. So somewhere after the initial exchange of pleasantries and before the semi-hypothetical feeling-out discussion begins ("So, what kind of relationship are you looking for?"). That's a fair amount of gray area, but not limitless.

(in reply to oakler)

Post #: 59

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/3/2009 11:28:50 AM

subtlebutterfly

Posts: 2230
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From: Not your hood
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If I'd be posing as a man and went on a date with a woman who's, as far as I know, straight as a whistle and then told her on the date or afterwards that whops bugger I'm a lesbian and well they like me lots why should my sex matter - do you think the woman would take me with open arms? It's simply a betrayal and deceitfulness...in a nutshell: a damn big lie.
I'd go nuts if I figured out that I went on a date with transgendered and they didn't tell me beforehand even though I wouldn't mind being friends with a transgendered person, the worst part would be the fact that you lied n weren't upfront about what you are.

(in reply to MmeGigs)

Post #: 60

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