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RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/7/2009 9:02:33 AM   
MisterP61


Posts: 1345
Joined: 10/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1


quote:

ORIGINAL: NecesitesMe
Some I have even counseled on what they need to do to get their balls back... yet they refuse.  Alas, I just pour another scotch and justify their situation by saying "That must be some good stuff." 
Fortunately enough, they're smart enough to know they won't get what they need from you and your counseling, and appropriately ignore the advice. M


I would love to know when being a good husband and trying to make your wife happy with small things became equated to not having balls.  I made those (having balls) mistakes in My first marriage.  I simply refused to make them again (now I just make new ones ROFL).  It does not make Me Her submissive, just Her husband who loves Her.

As far as what the OP asked.  To Me it would not matter one iota if My best friend came out and told Me he was submissive.  He is NOT My friend because I thought he was Dom/sub, but because of our commonalities and yes even our differences.  I am a straight Dom, but I would take on a male submissive, given the right circumstances.  This was not always My view, but as I learn and grow, so do My perceptions.  Thanks for a though provoking post Cat.

MrP




_____________________________

Proudly married to the "Diva of Destruction" LadyPact
Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
What is the maximum effective range of an excuse? Zero meters!

(in reply to FullfigRIMAAM1)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/7/2009 11:14:39 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Yes, I read the whole darn thing just so I could get to this part.  I'm sure in some way this will lead to Mister P asking Me exactly when I intend to start getting ready for the munch tonight, but it will be worth it.

First, I want to point out that the same discussion is being held on the "Ask A Mistress" forum, with the gender roles reversed.  In other words, what do femdoms think of female submissives?  Yes, that thread has run about the length of this one.  No, the bias of some folks doesn't transcend the gender issue.  Out of the roughly 400 responses combined in both threads, a few folks have pointed out that it isn't gender that is the source of why a person has chosen to follow the path of being either a Dominant or a submissive.

Does that bias happen?  Absolutely, it does, as evidenced both here and on the other thread.  Why does it happen?  Personally, I can't say.  The only thing I can say is that it occurs because of the reasons that some small minded people can come up with, usually related to fear of what they don't understand or can't grasp the concept of.  As some pointed out, if anything, it's good to think that a friend is pursuing what makes them happy, and as a consequence takes one more fish out of the sea in the competition arena.  Why anyone would want someone who is suppose to be a friend to live in a way that didn't make them happy, and rather follow some stereotype is beyond Me.

I'm not the first person to say that I understand where Focus is coming from with his comments, but I'm going to echo it.  I don't think he was coming from the position of radar, subdar, or gaydar.  I think it stems more from his perception of how he would have the opportunity to be exposed to a person's full life if he considered someone to be a best friend.  In the course of twenty years or so (as the example stated, "a best friend since college") yes, sooner or later, you're going to be involved in that other person's life on multiple levels.  Home, family, other relationship structures, etc.  I can't imagine someone being My best friend, for that many number of years, with whom I would hide such an important part of Myself.  Doesn't say much for someone who titles themselves a "friend" in the first place, does it?

Now, let Me get to the reason that I went through this entire thread.  I just had to reply to this......


quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterP61

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1


quote:

ORIGINAL: NecesitesMe
Some I have even counseled on what they need to do to get their balls back... yet they refuse.  Alas, I just pour another scotch and justify their situation by saying "That must be some good stuff." 
Fortunately enough, they're smart enough to know they won't get what they need from you and your counseling, and appropriately ignore the advice. M


I would love to know when being a good husband and trying to make your wife happy with small things became equated to not having balls.  I made those (having balls) mistakes in My first marriage.  I simply refused to make them again (now I just make new ones ROFL).  It does not make Me Her submissive, just Her husband who loves Her.

As far as what the OP asked.  To Me it would not matter one iota if My best friend came out and told Me he was submissive.  He is NOT My friend because I thought he was Dom/sub, but because of our commonalities and yes even our differences.  I am a straight Dom, but I would take on a male submissive, given the right circumstances.  This was not always My view, but as I learn and grow, so do My perceptions.  Thanks for a though provoking post Cat.

MrP





I'm not sure if this "getting the balls back" is supposed to be a comment on male submission or not.  For what it's worth, most of the Dominant people I know recognize the fact that it takes more balls to submit than to Dominate.  Maybe that's what spurs the issue in the first place.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to MisterP61)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/7/2009 3:59:15 PM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline 		I agree with you that it takes a real man with balls to learn how to make his marriage work with the lover he chose.
I was saying essentially what you said to the male who stated the words to which you object.
quote:

NecesitesMeI have plenty of male friends who I would never consider submissive.... until I see them with their wives.

Some I have even counseled on what they need to do to get their balls back... yet they refuse. Alas, I just pour another scotch and justify their situation by saying "That must be some good stuff."
M


_____________________________

The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

(in reply to MisterP61)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/7/2009 4:02:23 PM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		And some people are just naturually more mellow or more bossy than others. I have a couple of friends with whom have no, and I mean NO kink in their lives whatsoever, but she's the boss of them both and he's quite happy like that. Sometimes it's not about dominant or submissive, male or female, just human beings and their personalities.

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(in reply to FullfigRIMAAM1)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/7/2009 8:13:35 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I just wonder at the male doms, is it they don't want a male sub because even if they did not feel it themselves, they think others would start drawing conclusions about their sexuality ?
And this is an unreasonable concern?  I should openly endure explaining myself to those who actually stick their beaks in and ask and just shrug off the inevitable whispering campaigns from those who don't (ask)?

quote:

In the past men had valets, which were personal male servants, what is wrong with this present age ?
Most of us weren't born into a life of privilege and excess?

quote:

Or is it about sex ?
Is what about sex?  Service? 
 
Exactly what is it that you think a male sub, *ANY* male sub, can do for a hetero Dom that a female sub can't do - with infinitely more versality?  I don't mean to be flippant but such a "choice" is a total no-brainer....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/7/2009 9:04:03 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


Exactly what is it that you think a male sub, *ANY* male sub, can do for a hetero Dom that a female sub can't do - with infinitely more versality?  I don't mean to be flippant but such a "choice" is a total no-brainer....

Focus.


Speaking as a male sub...there is nothing that I offer that a hetero Dom wants or desires. That is just the nature of the beast. Yet that's not entirely true as friendship could be offered which more often than not, friendship isn't sought after nor is it welcomed in many cases.


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(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/7/2009 9:13:58 PM   
MisterP61


Posts: 1345
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		Full,

I probably should have taken Your part of the quote out, because I was commenting on the others comment, but I saw Yours as pertinent to what was said.  It does take more balls to put in the effort required to keep a happy healthy marriage.  If it was read wrong, I apologize.

MrP


< Message edited by MisterP61 -- 1/7/2009 9:49:38 PM >

_____________________________

Proudly married to the "Diva of Destruction" LadyPact
Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
What is the maximum effective range of an excuse? Zero meters!

(in reply to FullfigRIMAAM1)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/8/2009 2:09:41 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


Exactly what is it that you think a male sub, *ANY* male sub, can do for a hetero Dom that a female sub can't do - with infinitely more versality?  I don't mean to be flippant but such a "choice" is a total no-brainer....

Focus.


Speaking as a male sub...there is nothing that I offer that a hetero Dom wants or desires. That is just the nature of the beast. Yet that's not entirely true as friendship could be offered which more often than not, friendship isn't sought after nor is it welcomed in many cases.

Personally, any fem/sub I'm in a relationship with will definitely qualify as my friend, too.
 
But let's pretend for a minute that we're talking about some other hetero Dom who doesn't desire friendship and love etc from his *female* submissive.  I'm curious why you'd think that would or could change with a male submissive in his service...?  If you're talking outside of service, well there are still fem/subs in my life that are my friends....
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to beargonewild)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/8/2009 2:51:40 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I just wonder at the male doms, is it they don't want a male sub because even if they did not feel it themselves, they think others would start drawing conclusions about their sexuality ?
And this is an unreasonable concern?  I should openly endure explaining myself to those who actually stick their beaks in and ask and just shrug off the inevitable whispering campaigns from those who don't (ask)?
Why would a dominant care what others thought, are they not secure in themselves to give a stuff for others sensibilities
quote:

In the past men had valets, which were personal male servants, what is wrong with this present age ?
Most of us weren't born into a life of privilege and excess?
True, but slavery is illegal in most civilised countries.
quote:

Or is it about sex ?
Is what about sex?  Service?

Exactly what is it that you think a male sub, *ANY* male sub, can do for a hetero Dom that a female sub can't do - with infinitely more versality?  I don't mean to be flippant but such a "choice" is a total no-brainer....

So domination is about sex


Focus.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Male Perceptions of males - 1/9/2009 1:08:23 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I just wonder at the male doms, is it they don't want a male sub because even if they did not feel it themselves, they think others would start drawing conclusions about their sexuality ?
And this is an unreasonable concern?  I should openly endure explaining myself to those who actually stick their beaks in and ask and just shrug off the inevitable whispering campaigns from those who don't (ask)?
Why would a dominant care what others thought, are they not secure in themselves to give a stuff for others sensibilities

Yes, I should paint a neon bullseye on myself and my sexuality in order to prove how secure I am in myself.  May as well take down all those pesky curtains, too.  Very mature....


quote:

quote:

In the past men had valets, which were personal male servants, what is wrong with this present age ?
Most of us weren't born into a life of privilege and excess?
True, but slavery is illegal in most civilised countries.

And how *consenting* adults live their relationship dynamic generally isn't.  Your point is....?

quote:

quote:

Or is it about sex ?
Is what about sex?  Service?

Exactly what is it that you think a male sub, *ANY* male sub, can do for a hetero Dom that a female sub can't do - with infinitely more versality?  I don't mean to be flippant but such a "choice" is a total no-brainer....

So domination is about sex

If you say so - you're entitled to your opinion but stop trying to pass it off as something I said.
 
Yanno, the more you try to reduce complex dynamics to throw-away one-liners, the more you present as a theory riddled blow-hard whose own life experience ends at the keyboard behind Mum's basement door.  I can see you're trying waaaaay to hard to be clever but if you really wanna have an intelligent discussion then it's time to ante up with a bit of substance that real people living real lives can relate to.
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 110
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