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Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 8:06:05 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Calling all company owners, those of you that have their own business, and normally look to employ people to work for them, can I ask you, what have you noticed about the employment market, those that apply to work for you, do they have the skills you need, or could they be better ?

What do you see as lacking in the labour market ?

For your business enterprise and beyond, the future of your country ?


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone
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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 8:31:19 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Amazingly, we had a vacancy for an assistant transport manager just before xmas. It went out to all the agencies - agencies that are screaming for business with "special sale offers" et al. We had a very poor response - four CVs when we know for certain that dozens of suitable candidates in the area have been made redundant.

Of the three we called for interview, one didnt turn up, another turned out to have lied on his CV and the third was less than inspiring.

What was interesting though was that "required salary level" had dropped for such a position from around 25k to under 20k. There is a lot of desperation out there.

As it turned out, we didnt employ anyone in the end. We decided that we'd allow those whose positions had been made redundant to work their notice as they'd requested, with the proviso that they might stay on if they could turn things around in their department and provide cover for the transport manager. Better the devils you know perhaps.

We have vacancies right now - for people with commercial awareness who can generate business. The ultimate arbiter is whether a person can pay for themselves and contribute some excess income to the whole. Too often however we find that people will promise the earth but then expect to be paid handsomely for sitting at a desk - we need actors not reactors.

Our problem really I suppose is that in our sort of business we need employees who have the knowledge, capability and drive to create a business - we need carbon copies of us - and those sort of people are out making their own business.

What is lacking is any commitment to achievement, even any interest to achieve. Too many want to be told what to do and how to do it and if there is nothing placed in front of them they will sit and do nothing rather than find something to do. But then, given the experience of the labour market for some decades now, its hardly any wonder. Why show initiative, commitment and interest, why achieve and contribute when you'll be paid whatever and can be dismissed at any time for any reason well beyond any influence you might have?

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 8:33:01 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Calling all company owners, those of you that have their own business, and normally look to employ people to work for them, can I ask you, what have you noticed about the employment market, those that apply to work for you, do they have the skills you need, or could they be better ?
Most time, I have no idea. They are too interested in building up themselves and bringing irrelevant information into the interview. Rationalizing why they were fired, or resigned, and telling me what I have to do to hire them. They could do a LOT better telling me why I should hire them, and justifying their expense to me and my company.

quote:

What do you see as lacking in the labor market ?
A sense of reality. The biggest one being, to make $100k they have to bring in $185k more income to the company just to break even.

quote:

For your business enterprise and beyond, the future of your country ?
My biggest concern is a viable ongoing source of funds. Fortunately, its relatively not that much; unfortunately, its not that much. (Don't qualify for a bail-out.) My problem isn't business volume, cost of raw material, or personnel, (I'm the shortest term 'employee' at 7 years); my worry is regulation and the ROI (The 'I' representing investment of time more so than monetary) not being worth it in the face of being penalized for my success through taxation, personal/corporate, where the money goes to fund failures.

I'm not alone in that thought. The amount of liquidity on the sidelines points to that uncertainty being a driving force to the economic downturn. Looking at $1 Trillion in new spending being promised by the next Congress, doesn't provide any source of confidence to grow or expand. No business plan can account for the outcome of the planned socialization of major parts of the US economy. The same management results are projected for Government ownership of Financial institutions and the auto industry, as they've achieved in any other government managed institution - not many (any?) successes on their resume is there?

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 9:30:47 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
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From: another planet
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quote:

can I ask you, what have you noticed about the employment market, those that apply to work for you, do they have the skills you need, or could they be better ?


In my line of work most people i employ have none of the skills i need them to when they apply for the job. I actually prefer that, most people i have employed with prior training in my field are baddddddd at the job and it is harder to retrain someone than to start at basic training.
 
Unfortunately i cannot afford to employ anyone anymore. The governments greed with taxes on beer, the governments stupid smoking ban and the fact supermarkets can loss lead on their beer is ruining my trade.
 
I'm lucky in a way in that my daughters boyfriend works for me for bed and board basically. Still between us we have not had a day off for nearly 13 months and we both work 12 - 16 hour days. Now i love my job but it is exhausting to work such hours and can be soul destroying at times. I rarely get the chance to go places and basically most people have stopped asking me because my reply is always sorry im working.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 1/3/2009 9:32:49 AM >

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 11:06:40 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Calling all company owners, those of you that have their own business, and normally look to employ people to work for them, can I ask you, what have you noticed about the employment market, those that apply to work for you, do they have the skills you need, or could they be better ?

Depends on what I need at the moment.  As my business is primarily a consultancy (IT-related), most of my hiring (actually subcontracting) is project-oriented.  Very often, however, the professionals I do retain have skills that are merely adequate, rather than excellent--and thus a fair part of their orientation to my company involves a significant raising of their own internal standards of excellence (excellence being the supreme virtue in my company).

quote:

What do you see as lacking in the labour market ?

I agree with Merc on this one, and go one farther.  Not only do a fair number of erstwhile workers lack a grasp of the market reality that I am ultimately a buyer of their services, they also lack the understanding that technology has value to a business only to the extent that it furthers other aspects of that business--that if our work does not improve a business' bottom line it is not only not a benefit but a waste.  Too often people in every industry presume their work has value in and of itself, without regard to the benefits others may or may not derive from that work.

quote:

For your business enterprise and beyond, the future of your country ?

My company is run debt-free, and has been from the beginning.  We have never lost money, and never will--we do not enter into long-term commitments without having long-term commitments in kind to cover those obligations.  My concern is always finding and retaining clients, securing new contracts and new projects with which to occupy my company's resources.

So long as there are networks to maintain and systems to support, my company will at a minimum survive.




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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 11:24:21 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		the type that are excellent - tho, are only passing thru.   the go getter hay maker likely will seek to work for themself.

my brother did so- after working for my uncle...then the cousin took over.  well my bro was much better at the business.  I said, do you really need a title when you can do this on your own.

so now he does it on his own.

his workers tho- come and go, get DUIs, some dont want to work.  he was doing  a  roof and finally broke down to get a alien...but he found they did not want to go up on a roof.



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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 11:27:45 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

the go getter hay maker likely will seek to work for themself.

Sometimes, but not always.

There are energetic, capable, thoroughly competent individuals who are quite content to leave the managing of a business to others.

Even when self-employment is their own personal goal, having such people close by is always beneficial.  In facilitating their business growth, I grow my business as well.


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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 11:57:21 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		My business isn't large enough to warrent - or even Consider - hiring someone else to work with/for me.  I simply don't do sufficient volume at this point to necessitate hiring someone else as anything other than a temp sales helper for the duration of a show weekend. 
 
I have noticed that the people who are willing to "work" as sales help at a show though - expect several very unrealistic things - like to be paid more than they're worth, sit on their rumps while I actually do the work of dealing with any customers, and wander the show looking around at other booths rather than staying put and helping.   I've gotten to the point where I'm better off simply not taking any "help" with me - and resigning myself to not leaving the booth even for a bathroom break until the show ends for the night.

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 12:09:15 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Interesting that there's so much agreement that too many employees dont understand;
a) the economics - ie that they have to make or save the company more than they cost
b) the nature of modern work - ie initiative, application, commitment etc

E


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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 1:13:51 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Interesting that there's so much agreement that too many employees dont understand;
a) the economics - ie that they have to make or save the company more than they cost
b) the nature of modern work - ie initiative, application, commitment etc

Interesting....and tragic.  Responsibility seems to have left the modern lexicon of work.

I have come to a juncture where my future business plans do not entail having any "employees" as such.  People who work for my company will do so as independent contractors--they will be businesses themselves, or we will not do business.  Too many who wish to be "employees" view a job as a right with little to no attendant responsibility.

I have two words for such mendicants:  "You're fired."


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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 1:36:49 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Thats an approach I'd like to take too CL - albeit we're stuck with paying minimum wage plus commission here rather than commission alone as I'd prefer.

If it were commission alone, then anyone worth their salt would be making more salary than me on the 50/50 deal we've offered in the past. If someone offered me such a deal I'd be making around a half million a year standing on my head, and making what I do now in a year by working one month a year.

Yet, we get these people who want fixed salaries and then wonder why theyre outta here after the trial period when they brought in no business - sort of "well, I was here on time everyday, so why me?". They insist on fixed salaries because they "cant afford the ups and downs of commission earnings" so they say - the truth is closer to "shit, I might have to be successful and I dont want the pressure".

The greatest training that could be offered to kids is how business works; they brought stuff into the school curricula here a few years ago and my eldest brings stuff home based on it that tells me all they do is piss about (in colloquial English) designing leaflets and so on rather than anything thats nuts and bolts. Most of them dont know the difference between revenue, gross profit and net profit and no idea what overheads might be save for what they learned in media studies. Sadly, many adults need the same education.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 2:05:02 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Ellen - the only time it's actually paid off for me to hire sales help for a show has been when I made their pay dependant on Commisions.  You don't facilitate sales to X amount, you don't make any money.  It's either that, or telling them that if they want to Make $10 an hour for the time they're at a show with me, they have to see to it that They do $30/hour in sales - to justify the cost of paying them after having to pay booth fees, my own time, costs of getting to the show, feeding them, etc.  It's surprising how quick they are to quit wanting to wander the show - and instead actually turn into sales help - when I tell them that if I don't make money they don't make money - and tell it to them BLUNTLY.

edited to add : when I'm dealing with people who are outside my Busines business - like home health help, lawncare help, etc - I do tell them bluntly "You're Fired" if they display the sort of attitude that CL mentioned.

< Message edited by hizgeorgiapeach -- 1/3/2009 2:07:27 PM >

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Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 2:21:29 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Yep - I think I may just have a problem with being too nice, you know? Having experienced many years of being abused by bastards who happened to have seniority when I was an employee and never really understanding why since I never warranted it as far as I could see, I think I tend to mollycoddle, make allowances and so on.

Which brings me to the problem I know I have when it comes to work - that I believe others think like me and will do like me. This is a problem I am rapidly reconciling. It is also something that explains why bosses have to act like bastards so often, since so many employees will simply take the piss otherwise. How regrettable that one has to treat adults like children.

But in the end its my home on the line - these useless sods will simply move on and find another soft touch.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 4:10:05 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline 		The area we are based in has very little unemployment. At one point when we approached the local job centre with a vacancy it was suggested that we would probably not want any of the people they still had on their books. They were the ones that either did not want to work or had other issues.

We went to the local college and spoke to the Instructor on the Motor Vehicle NVQ (Government Training Course) course. Some of the guys on the course had just completed the 3 year course. We took one of them on. Obviously we work in quite a niche market with the cars we deal in being quite complicated so we were prepared to offer a lot of training in that particular area. What has astounded us though is the total lack of interest and lack of very basic workshop skills. When asked to put together a simple brake caliper. There is also no thought of self motivation. He has to be given every task and it needs to be checked. Once finished he stops until you notice he is done and give him something else to do. He is not the first we have had from this course so we are begining to wonder what is the point of these kids doing the course at all as they dont seem to be learning any skills that are useful in the workplace.

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 4:13:08 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Calling all company owners, those of you that have their own business, and normally look to employ people to work for them, can I ask you, what have you noticed about the employment market, those that apply to work for you, do they have the skills you need, or could they be better ?


More unemployed people means a larger pool to find the best employee.

quote:


What do you see as lacking in the labour market ?


Good work ethics and there is a prevalence of a "me, me" attitude.

quote:


For your business enterprise and beyond, the future of your country ?



We (the US) have been riding a big economic wave for a long time. Toward the end, and part of the reason for our problems, is not enough cash flow and too much credit. I see things being tough in the next 2 to 5 years, until things stabilize in the housing and construction industry. The government also needs to stop deficit spending.

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 6:24:11 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Calling all company owners, those of you that have their own business, and normally look to employ people to work for them, can I ask you, what have you noticed about the employment market, those that apply to work for you, do they have the skills you need, or could they be better ?

What do you see as lacking in the labour market ?

For your business enterprise and beyond, the future of your country ?



Truly stupendous question.

I'm young enough to remember when I was young and stupid, and old enough to answer your question as I think it was intended.

1)  The dumbing down of America's youth began long before my time...but it's gotten demonstrably worse.

I actually didn't pay attention in school long enough to discern whether or not the kids that applied for jobs at my then young company when I first started it (1977, right out of high school) were smarter than the ones who apply to it today.  But I can tell you this...the ones that apply to it today are singularly incapable of filling out an envelope mailed to their own home address.

(And, I should add...as they progress through their 30's and 40's...they aren't picking up any appreciable levels of IQ).

I spent most of my youth smoking things other than tobacco (which we're not allowed to discuss here), and largely, the only thing I recall taking in junior college...were....ahemmmm....those things.

But I actually (later) cared (unlike when I was in school) about my brain.  I read.  A lot.  Everything with a printed word that I could get my hands on. 

If I was alone for 20 minutes, I grabbed a book, a newspaper, the want ads...it mattered to me how to spell and to fit words into a sentence.

To, too and two also mattered, largely because I didn't want to appear a fool.

My parents weren't "educated", as in college...no degrees in my family...but they cared as well.  Enough to insist that I continue in life with curiosity...enough that I wouldn't beggar myself with assumptions that what I had at any given moment was satisfactory.

2)  Too often the people who apply at my companies are severely undereducated for the positions:

Secretaries who answer the phone with "may I axe who is calling?", production employees who literally don't know enough to have their own shoe laces tied before signing in...and do so on the clock (20 minutes after their agreed upon sign in time), salesmen who come in and wonder what they'll do today...because there are no preplanned leads on their desks.....

It's literally frightening sometimes because I see, every day in my companies, in a fairly well educated region (Seattle), people who are simply incapable of their own future.

There's a partial blame to be laid at the feet of our education system...but it was no better or worse in my time.

It could be argued that when they took the Pledge of Allegiance out of our schools, along with whacking kids on their knuckles ("nukles", by the way, to most kids today), we lost something....

But the truth is...parents today (in my humble opinion) just don't give a flying fuck.  Mine did.

So...in answer to your question....this employer is ashamed at what we're producing today....and frankly...the Chinese (who, by the way are largely educated at our schools) deserve every bit of the success they're achieving at our behest.

As long as you keep doing next to nothing educating your kids....I'll keep hiring them for half of what they should be making and I'll continue to spend the difference on managers whose job is to get them to do what they (and the Chinese) should be (and are) able to do in their sleep.


< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 1/3/2009 6:46:30 PM >

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 7:54:48 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Thank you for your reply, but I have to draw attention to your ;

''Secretaries who answer the phone with "may I axe who is calling?"

I understand the use of the word axe in place of ask, as being a linguistic difficulty forsome of the black race in our population. I have come across this before, and have asked many friends past and present who are black about this word, and they if they concentrate, can pronounce the word, but not as a normal off the hand word in conversation. So, that being that one has to make allowances for linguistical problems between the different races in our society. The intonation is correct, why worry about all of how the word finishes, the people are doing their normal best, which is good enough for normal converstion.

If it is the white race that is using this word in lieu of the correct word, then it stands that their education was incorrect


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 1/3/2009 7:56:46 PM >

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 9:10:09 PM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		  We hire teenagers and they are a breed apart.  We did cut back on hiring this year with the large increase in the minimum wage mandated by Congress.
One of the "unintended consequences" of political mismanagement is that Congress made no exemption for teens who work part time in the hospitality business versus adults who are working full time or supporting a family.
The $2.00 increase in hourly wage kicked everyone on the payroll up and kids who have been with us awhile are making $8-10 an hour now
while inexperienced, first job crew members are earning $7.00/hr.  We cut back about 30% in hiring to shave some of the payroll cost.

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 10:00:54 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		I hate to break it to you, Aernin, but I'm not buying your assumption that it's a racially induced difficulty.  I've (unfortunately) met whites, blacks, and latinos who all use that particular ghettoism - not because they're incapable of it, or have to Think about it - but because they think it's Kool to sound Ghetto and Illiterate.
 
I've also met folks of all three racial backgrounds who speak with a significantly better accent than myself (even after years of working to rid myself of a deep twangy drawl that's common here in Oklahoma) - because why? Oh yeah - because they give a flying flip about whether they sound intelligent or like a complete twit.

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/3/2009 10:03:46 PM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline 		there are LOADS of people in all sorts of skin tones who say "axe" instead of "ask." sheesh, man.
i'm rather brown, and i can say "ask" pretty well. =p
schnikies.

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