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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 12:08:44 AM

SteelofUtah

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Was this whole Thread really just a way to make a very Racial Statement that has little to actually do with the Company Questions in which you initally asked?

I mean how does the word Ask and Axe really affect the bottom line of a Company?

In Many Cases I know that no good HR person would hire someone who was unable to say Ask. And so what you are really asking is does anyone else get annoyed when a White Person says AXE and not ASK.

Basically you are looking for agreement from people who are annoyed with under educated white people?

Sorry I am more conserned with the VALID Information Mercnbeth gave on the Market to deal with this racial crap about the word Ask and Axe.

How Fundementally Retarded.

Steel

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Post #: 21

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 6:26:50 AM

Aneirin

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Ok, my knowledge of the word axe over the word ask, is based upon my knowledge, it is not a racial statement, nor was it intended to be, I for one accept the word, the intonation being acceptable, I hear axe in place of ask, it is good enough. Language and the use of it is constantly changing with everyone, the more people come into contact with others, the more likely new words will be passed around, perhaps picked up subconsciously and used subconsciously. For example, take the Oxford dictionary of ten years ago and compare it to the latest edition, new words have been included each year, even ghettoisms are in there now, they have made it to the dictionary, so they are viable words to be used, language is evolving and in reality, who cares about words, as long as they are understood.

Anyways, why is it every time someone makes an observation about the differences with the different races on our planet, it is assumed it is a racial slur ?

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Post #: 22

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 6:34:25 AM

LadyEllen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Was this whole Thread really just a way to make a very Racial Statement that has little to actually do with the Company Questions in which you initally asked?

I mean how does the word Ask and Axe really affect the bottom line of a Company?

Yes, obviously it was a contrived plan, so meticulous in its cunning that no one could ever have suspected its true nature.....

But I'm sorry - the ability to speak clearly and correctly, the ability to produce intelligible and accurate communication in writing is important, and not just for those in offices and the board room. Business being a cooperative activity, it can and does affect the bottom line to have staff incapable of communication with their fellow workers, suppliers and customers.

But more than that it affects the bottom line very much in terms of negotiations. The moment I read something from a customer or supplier which contains poor spelling and incorrect grammar, I perceive I am dealing with an idiot. Dependent on the nature of the negotiation, I may break off further discussion or tie them up in words so efficiently that I can exploit them mercilessly.

A recent example; we were looking to change Euros to Sterling and asked for details from three companies specialising in foreign exchange. Two called back and we spoke at length, discussing how they could help us get the best deals. The third called back and the salesman from that company revealed himself to be a prize idiot within the first minute - speaking with so many grammatical errors and such frequent incoherence that I decided there and then to break off any further discussion. The worst of it was, that he was reading from a prepared script which presumably contained these errors.

Lets just consider what we're talking about here - the fact that after eleven years of schooling, many adults are incapable of speaking properly, let alone writing properly, and this includes spelling in addition to grammatical niceties.

All other factors being equal, what we are dealing with is a generation or two of lazy minds, catered to by a general environmental message that says its not cool to make an effort, aspire or achieve. Mind you, we have to also understand that such an attitude did not come about of its own account - its rather a reaction as I see it, to what is a rapidly changing world where the brain has been replaced by the computer and the committed native worker replaced by outsourced or insourced cheaper labour, producing a mindset of "why bother?".

But even for those now lost, communication skills remain vital - how to claim unemployment benefits when one is illiterate? And for those in work, how to negotiate better pay and conditions when one is incapable of negotiation, how to understand what is being offered when one doesnt comprehend above a third grade level?

E

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Post #: 23

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 9:13:27 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

If it is the white race that is using this word in lieu of the correct word, then it stands that their education was incorrect

No, if any person (black, white, brown, yellow, or green with purple polka dots) uses "axe" instead of "ask", then they have not learned the virtues of proper diction and enunciation in elocution. "Axe" instead of "ask" is a failure of the person to discipline their minds and their mouths to make communicating what they have to say a priority.

Which is why it's a problem. "Axe" instead of "ask" is an indicator of a lazy mind--an unacceptable attribute in anyone who would work for me and get paid by me.

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Post #: 24

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 9:52:54 AM

susie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Was this whole Thread really just a way to make a very Racial Statement that has little to actually do with the Company Questions in which you initally asked?

How Fundementally Retarded.

Steel

Actually I did not see it as a racial statement at all more a statement of what Aneirin has encountered much the same as I have. The only time I have ever heard the "Axe" over Ask used it has been by black friends or workmates. They have admitted that it is something they have grown up with and is not down to being lazy but learning from parents etc.

I actually find your "fundementally retarded" comment to be rude beyond anything remotely necessary. Please remember there are differences between the Uk and US and take that into account when reading posts.

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Post #: 25

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 10:52:45 AM

SteelofUtah

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Last I heard Singleing out a Race with a Stereo Type such as the Way a word is said and then Blanketing it over the Entire Race by associating it primarily with that race is Racism.

And last I heard that is the case in Europe and America.

As for the Fundementally Retarded if you take each word to mean what it is defined as you will find this was a acurate phrase.

Racisim is something I don't tolerate. Period. Zero Tolerence for the Bashing of a People or even the Snubbing of ones nose based on something such as this using the guise of a Business related question is Racist. Intentional or Not.

As for Speech I will have you know that the "SK" in Speech is difficult for many people with an abnormal upper or lower Palette. The point I am making is that for MANY, NOT ALL but MANY this is something that is DIFFICULT for them to say be they White Brown Black Yellow or Whatever color.

I may sound like I am being Obtuse on this issue but My Brother was in Speech for this very reason for nearly 6 years and even now when he is in a hurry will say Axe because it is how his mouth forms when it is said.

Before asuming it is the nature of education one may wish to see if there is some other reason.

COLOR isn't a reason it's just an unrelated sterotype. Yes African Americans use it alot and it can be related to mimicing of thier parents, then again it could be due to the Geographical area they were raised such as Kentucky or Alabama or other Southern Areas. There are so many factors here that to discuss RACE as one of them is again Fundementally Retarded

Steel

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Post #: 26

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 10:59:28 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

''Secretaries who answer the phone with "may I axe who is calling?"

I understand the use of the word axe in place of ask, as being a linguistic difficulty forsome of the black race in our population.

actually it's not a linguistic difficulty - some are raised to say the "ask" as "axe" or refuse to use the proper command of the English language.

however it's not limited to the black population - i've heard white people mis-say the word too.

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Post #: 27

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 11:25:22 AM

susie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Last I heard Singleing out a Race with a Stereo Type such as the Way a word is said and then Blanketing it over the Entire Race by associating it primarily with that race is Racism.

And last I heard that is the case in Europe and America.

As for the Fundementally Retarded if you take each word to mean what it is defined as you will find this was a acurate phrase.

Racisim is something I don't tolerate. Period. Zero Tolerence for the Bashing of a People or even the Snubbing of ones nose based on something such as this using the guise of a Business related question is Racist. Intentional or Not.

As for Speech I will have you know that the "SK" in Speech is difficult for many people with an abnormal upper or lower Palette. The point I am making is that for MANY, NOT ALL but MANY this is something that is DIFFICULT for them to say be they White Brown Black Yellow or Whatever color.

I may sound like I am being Obtuse on this issue but My Brother was in Speech for this very reason for nearly 6 years and even now when he is in a hurry will say Axe because it is how his mouth forms when it is said.

Before asuming it is the nature of education one may wish to see if there is some other reason.

COLOR isn't a reason it's just an unrelated sterotype. Yes African Americans use it alot and it can be related to mimicing of thier parents, then again it could be due to the Geographical area they were raised such as Kentucky or Alabama or other Southern Areas. There are so many factors here that to discuss RACE as one of them is again Fundementally Retarded

Steel

Actually I do not tolerate racism either however I still do not see the remark that was made as being a racist one. It was an observation made on experience of people he has come across. It is my experience too so perhaps it is more a UK thing.

Perhaps you could consider your over use of capital letters in your posts. It is very off putting.

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Post #: 28

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 11:45:27 AM

SteelofUtah

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It is for emphasis only I assure you, There was no yelling if that is what you were getting at and I appologise for that it is just habit at this point.

**Shaking Head**

I get what you are saying but the fact remains that it is being applied to a race and not to the individual.

I have met many people who use Axe it was a givein with many of the speech classes especially those with an elongated lower palette, which can often be confused with an Underbite.

My issue is HOW the topis was brought up and then what it became. This kind of discussion is Racist period. Wheather that was the intention or not a race was singled out in this and the sterotype was applied to the race because of it's abundance in that field.

It would be no different than asking is British people know how to brust thier teeth because so many in parliment have nasty teeth.

Then saying that is just the British implying that british as a whole have messed up teeth.

And I would be just as upset about that kind of conversation and still consider it racist in nature and again not tolerate it.

Silly as this all may be, it is because of things like this, just as simple as this that racism becomed "Okay" to some people. Because they just don't see the harm in in.

To give a different perspective I notice this all the time by those who may not have a palette issue and although I have noticed it in one race more than another I have noticed it in all the races meaning to me that mentioning a race serves no purpose.

That is all I was getting at. Sorry if I came Across angry I just type funny always have

Steel

**Who Capitalizes Strange words for No reason at All**

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Post #: 29

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 11:47:41 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

even now when he is in a hurry will say Axe because it is how his mouth forms when it is said.

From this I presume he speaks properly when he slows down.

Folks who want to present themselves in the best light will take the time and the trouble to communicate in the best way. That includes slowing down and speaking properly.

The only verbal sin worse than "Axe" is an Ozzy Osbourne-esque mumble.

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Post #: 30

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 11:50:03 AM

pahunkboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

''Secretaries who answer the phone with "may I axe who is calling?"

I understand the use of the word axe in place of ask, as being a linguistic difficulty forsome of the black race in our population.

actually it's not a linguistic difficulty - some are raised to say the "ask" as "axe" or refuse to use the proper command of the English language.

however it's not limited to the black population - i've heard white people mis-say the word too.

Same here.

Tonya- cool pic!!! :-)

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 31

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 12:06:07 PM

SteelofUtah

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From: St George Utah
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

even now when he is in a hurry will say Axe because it is how his mouth forms when it is said.

From this I presume he speaks properly when he slows down.

Folks who want to present themselves in the best light will take the time and the trouble to communicate in the best way. That includes slowing down and speaking properly.

The only verbal sin worse than "Axe" is an Ozzy Osbourne-esque mumble.

Not always, if he focuses on his speech it gets better, but when you work the way he does in the field he works in there are times in which he just has far too much on his mind to focus on how he has to form his mouth to say words like Ask, Now, Break, Through, Taught, and many others.

Also when he is Nervous no matter what he does most of his words come out with what sounds like an abundance of Saliva in his mouth.

Now in Speech Class he did very well and many doctors thought that his palette was not as bad as they thought however knowing my brother he was just doing whatever it took to sound normal because kids can be VERY Cruel.

As for Best Foot Forward living with my brother I understand some of what he goes through just to talk but I do know that if you haven't been around it you really do not understand the difficulty they have with very basic words and stringing them together with other words.

The only point is that it isn't as cut and dry as trying real hard.

I am sure you don't really put any thought into just how you go about saying the words that come out of your mouth you just think about what to say and say it. For people like my Brother he has to not only think about what to say, but think about which words to use to get it said so as not to cause a slur or a mis-speak and then he actually has to think about the shape of mouth as he says them.

Awful lot to go through just not to say Axe instead of Ask huh?

Steel

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Post #: 32

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 12:07:50 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

I am sure you don't really put any thought into just how you go about saying the words that come out of your mouth you just think about what to say and say it.

You'd be wrong. Stuttering is nothing if not an inconvenient and occasionally embarrassing pain in the ass.

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Post #: 33

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 12:10:58 PM

SteelofUtah

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Then I would think you would understand.

Even with Stuttering there are times and circumstances when all the tricks you use to keep from doing it fail you and the words just don't come right.

Did you go to Speech Therapy for your Stutter or get the Surgery?

Or was your slight enough you were able to quell it on your own?

Steel

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Post #: 34

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 12:11:11 PM

popeye1250

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Lady E, instead of looking for help in the usual places have you ever thought about hiring an enterprising young person in the neighborhood and training them to your liking?
You know, something that used to be quite common in the U.S. in years past, "On the Job Training." ("OJT")
That way you can mold the young person to the tasks you require.
It might take you a little longer but at least you're not dealing with someone who's brain is in "mediocre mindset" for years. You're getting someone with a somewhat young and open mind.
I was like that when I was young and had someone taken me under their wing I'd have been a real hustler knowing I could make more money by producing more business!
But, I never got the opportunity.
When you train them from scratch superior performance can be the "norm."
Just a thought.

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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 12:20:35 PM

LadyEllen

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We've got one Popeye as it happens; by no means an academic achiever, but she has "it" (whatever "it" is) and we're working on her. No gripes with her so far - but lots of gripes with those ten years into a career who simply dont get a damn.

I also consciously took on a junior person to handle our accounts. She's in her early 20s and if she plays it right with the opportunity we're giving her, she'll be set for a decent career at a senior level when she eventually leaves us rather than the sort of job she'd otherwise have had as an accounts clerk for the rest of her life.

Some would say I'm stupid to take on young women like this - young women tend to get pregnant which causes a lot of disruption for a small business like ours. On the other hand I've come across so many young women with enormous potential who are held back by sexist approaches in the workplace on the part of male bosses. So I'm trying to do my bit to push these two.

I laid it out for them in the pre-xmas review. I told them, sooner or later they will have kids - and at that point all opportunity for them to get ahead will have gone because they wont have time for study and so on. Whatever point they have reached by then will be where they are at 40 and at 50 and at 60 - and if thats some dead end position on basic wage thats that. They have to do their studying now, push now and get ahead as far as possible now. Maybe thats sexist too - but its a fact I've observed in real life.

E

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Post #: 36

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 12:33:05 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

Even with Stuttering there are times and circumstances when all the tricks you use to keep from doing it fail you and the words just don't come right.

Yep, those are the "pain in the ass" moments.

quote:

Did you go to Speech Therapy for your Stutter or get the Surgery?

Years of speech plus a love of Shakespeare--call it a brute force approach of keep doing it until you learn to do it right. Learned to focus, to think through what I want to say before saying it, and to basically slow my happy ass down when saying something important. (learned later on the slowing down bit had the very pleasant side effect of giving my words a bit more gravitas by giving off the appearance that all my words were very carefully chosen)

So yes, I do understand speech difficulties. I understand very well that my speech difficulties are exactly that--MINE (as in MY issue, MY problem, and not someone else's). If I want to accomplish something in this world, overcoming such difficulties is MY challenge.

I'm totally for helping people overcome difficulties; I'm totally against letting people turn those difficulties into excuses for pursuing something less than excellence.

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Post #: 37

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 12:47:45 PM

mstrj69

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I would have to say this entire question varies with the business one has. Someone in construction needs one type of worker while an entirely white collar company needs a different type of employee.
I have learned that the more I pay an employee the less they work. This seems to be because they only want x amount of dollars and they will only work as hard as necessary as to get that in their paycheck.
I have taken to the idea for 2009 of hiring 4 employees 4 hours a day versus 2 for 8 hours a day and yet have them only work an average of 4 hours per day. Eventually the two I currently have will be phased out and either replaced or have the other two pick up the extra hours and income. I do not have time to train 4 new employees so I am going to train two new employees. This shows the biggest downfall of employees for me. They do not want to work a full week and give their best all 40 hours. Further they will not take the initiative and do what needs to be done without having to be told to go do it. You can hire new employees and they may work good at first but then they start to slack off.
I would be looking at hiring 6 new employees except the minimum wage makes it too expensive to have them on board.

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Post #: 38

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/4/2009 1:58:32 PM

Aneirin

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My thought is, whence I get my business idea moving, I am straight away going to need an asisstant, purely as a ' hold this, help me shift this', kind of thing, a safety person perhaps, as forges can be dangerous places. My plan is to seek one of the misunderstood in youth, as often it is those that are misunderstood are often failures of the educational system, not saying they are thick, but it is that the teaching might not have been up to scratch for all except the majority. I happen to believe from past experience, that the misunderstood tends to be highly gifted in certain areas and if someone gave them a chance, they could prove themselves, I intend to give someone a chance, they prove willing, I will teach them all I know in return for their help, they will be taught a viable trade and in time if they want to produce things themselves, they can just as long as contributes to the overall business, a partner I have trained myself.

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Post #: 39

RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 5:18:24 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Was this whole Thread really just a way to make a very Racial Statement that has little to actually do with the Company Questions in which you initally asked?

I mean how does the word Ask and Axe really affect the bottom line of a Company?

In Many Cases I know that no good HR person would hire someone who was unable to say Ask. And so what you are really asking is does anyone else get annoyed when a White Person says AXE and not ASK.

Basically you are looking for agreement from people who are annoyed with under educated white people?

Sorry I am more conserned with the VALID Information Mercnbeth gave on the Market to deal with this racial crap about the word Ask and Axe.

How Fundementally Retarded.

Steel

Equally retarded is the assumption that just because someone posted something entirely uneducated...that the premise is or was racist.

His comment was uneducated.

It doesn't change the fact that when you're representing a firm...you need to prepare yourself and present yourself to...the world.

Not to appear White, or Latino, or Asian...but to appear educated. Because the firm you represent needs to represent itself as such...as well.

To degrade the conversation into a racist jingoistic bullshit argument is to entirely defile the point of the intent of the OP...even as his follow on lacked internal thought.

It's beside the point.

Kids today (and frankly, many adults I've hired) simply are incapable of doing their job. In the purely basics of business life.

It doesn't matter where "axe" comes from, nor does it matter what someone thinks as to its origin...what matters is...it sure as hell ain't the word "ask".

It's a lazy response to a common question. It's a very simple way to say to an employer, via this persons contact to the world..."I'll do it my way...even as I've never invested a dime into the things you find valuable...even as I have no risk in anything I'm doing here for you....even as I present myself...instead of you".

"Fuck you...where's my paycheck?"

Whether it comes out of the mouth of an African American, an Asian, a Norwegian, Polish, Jewish, Irish...it's not in the dictionary.

Unless of course you're cutting down trees.

(At which point it's entirely appropriate).

(Just not in my office).

We don't cut trees.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 1/6/2009 5:22:29 PM >

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 40

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