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RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 5:42:07 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Aneirin, be careful with that idea.  While I've long been a proponent of traditional style apprenticeships in order to teach someone a specific business/skill, it can backfire on you.
 
I had an apprentice for several months - traditional style apprenticeship, not what my (US) government calls "apprenticeship" these days.  I had pretty much the same idea you did - give a misunderstood kid a chance to prove themselves, pick up some actual skills - the whole hand up vs hand out thing.  For the first 2 months, he was eager to learn.  For the next two months (during the summer, once school was out) he made excuses about why he 'couldn't' come work/learn on any given day.  (The excuses usually amounted to "I want to go hang out with school buddies smoking pot and watching tv - therefore I don't have time to do something Constructive.")  For the month after that - when I threatened to terminate his entire apprenticeship if he didn't show up consistantly - his performance was less than mediocre.  He was always late, he didn't pay attention, he was sloppy, and he copped an attitude when told to pay attention to what he was doing or get the fuck outta my workshop.  He was shocked when I told him not to bother coming back, that his apprenticeship was over - that he'd blown it.
 
I still advocate for apprenticeships in the traditional style.  I probably always will.  But I can guarentee you that if I offer such an opportunity again in my future - it will Not be to a teenager who says they want to learn.  It'll be someone who's already proven that they have a sense of responcibility and a modicum of common sense.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 6:15:43 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Calling all company owners, those of you that have their own business, and normally look to employ people to work for them, can I ask you, what have you noticed about the employment market, those that apply to work for you, do they have the skills you need, or could they be better ?

What do you see as lacking in the labour market ?

For your business enterprise and beyond, the future of your country ?



Firm solved his business needs by finding a good submissive. 

No, I did not have the specific skills he needed, but I do have the raw ability.  I've much yet to learn, but he keeps me motivated. 

As for the future, he has plans to expand and we do anticipate problems with finding adequate help.  It's a very specialized field and available individuals with experience are almost non-existent.  Our goal is to tailor what work we might hire additional people for so that only minimal skills will be needed.  Computerization of processes will hold the key to that area, but it will still require reliability and good work ethics to do the job.  My background in Human Resources and training will hopefully help us find and groom a good workforce.

We aren't doomed... there are still plenty of good people out there.   

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 6:21:17 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
As for the future, he has plans to expand and we do anticipate problems with finding adequate help.  It's a very specialized field and available individuals with experience are almost non-existent.  Our goal is to tailor what work we might hire additional people for so that only minimal skills will be needed.  Computerization of processes will hold the key to that area, but it will still require reliability and good work ethics to do the job.  My background in Human Resources and training will hopefully help us find and groom a good workforce.


A skillfully briliant way to say absolutely nothing: you were trained well.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 6:31:30 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

A skillfully briliant way to say absolutely nothing: you were trained well.


No training necessary... I'm naturally brilliant. 

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 6:36:15 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

A skillfully briliant way to say absolutely nothing: you were trained well.


No training necessary... I'm naturally brilliant. 



... at saying what, again?

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 6:40:35 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

... at saying what, again?


At saying whatever I wish... and disclosing nothing of any great importance.  It's a talent not everyone has, though I admit that some others here do excel at it, too. 

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 6:45:09 PM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrj69
...This shows the biggest downfall of employees for me. They do not want to work a full week and give their best all 40 hours. Further they will not take the initiative and do what needs to be done without having to be told to go do it.

That would be me. There's really very few things I'd want to do for 40 hours.
Money would not be such a factor; I'd have to really enjoy what I was doing if I were doing it that long.
'Cause that's a lot of life to give up, otherwise.

On the other hand, though, I do want to give good value for the time that I am present.
When I work, I want it to be a beneficial arrangement for all parties.
I appreciate that more employers are creating part time positions.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 6:52:01 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

At saying whatever I wish... and disclosing nothing of any great importance.  It's a talent not everyone has, though I admit that some others here do excel at it, too. 



Should it be a matter of happiness, or of despair, that emptiness has become a virtue, and something to rejoice over?  


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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 7:11:40 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Should it be a matter of happiness, or of despair, that emptiness has become a virtue, and something to rejoice over?  



Honestly, kittin... don't you think you've derailed this thread enough?  If you'd like to continue to try to attack me personally, please do so in private mail. 

My apologies, Aneirin. 

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 7:19:01 PM   
ALAstella


Posts: 253
Joined: 12/3/2008
Status: offline 		Back to the OP I run a small theatre hence actors are about the most essential element of the theatre.

I'm sticking to plays which require only two or three people, more than this is too ambitious and getting a good team of actors or cast together is proving to be almost as difficult as finding funding or an audience. I've found two who are working well together, both are professional, dedicated, and pro-active.

To be honest London is proving harder than anywhere else to find good actors who are prepared to show the minimum commitment and make the minimum effort to get a production together which is my main reason for not wanting to stay here. You're getting actors coming out of drama school and they think that as soon as they graduate it's enough to land them that role. Thing is, 90% of actors are unemployed, and most productions are no pay or commission only, but you get them coming to a casting expecting to receive a contract and a salary. I don't have the resources to do anything more than profit share, i.e. a share of the income from tickets, etc.

I'm starting 'Switch' again, from the beginning, but tying it with another play and at present I'm working my way through 80 or so applications for three roles and have recently decided to raise the bar.

But I'm getting 'professional' actors who have problems with reading a simple text, deficiencies when it comes to voice, and a worrying number who just want to learn the text and go out on stage. There seems to be a problem with the concept of working as a team, showing effort, commitment and ambition.

Theatre is a hard business, very hard, and as I say, if you want an easier life to try prostitution or organized crime. You got literally thousands of people wandering around London with a good idea looking for funding or performances, and I'm refusing to back down, a good idea or play with a good cast of actors packaged properly will sell.

You'd think it would be easy, as I provide the material, the rehearsal space, the venues, all the actor has to do is turn up and prepare the role. But this appears to be too difficult for a considerable number of them.

In fringe in London it's more difficult thanks to the media and television, not to mention the recession and people just don't have the time or the money to go out to theatre any more.

But some of us are still soldiering on, regardless.. and there's always theatre workshops..

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 7:24:47 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I am not a business owner but in many cases I have trained and supervised other employees.  Most of the problems are directly related to a poor attitude, employees that are unreliable, lazy and dishonest.  I recall a co-worker who was taking money from the cash register that we had to catch red handed after a shift change so that the boss could fire her.  Her old man was in the county jail and she had to rent a car to drive down and see him.  Guess where she got the money?  Or the guy at one place who raided the supply cabinet for toilet paper, paper towels and garbage bags and took garbage bag full of ice from the ice machine for one of his keg parties. 
 
How about the ones who show up drunk, high or hung-over?  Or worse yet, think that selling illegal drugs while on duty is a good business model?  Or the ones who have psychotic family members who stop by to visit after release from prison or a mental institution waving a pistol around and talking about murdering your fellow employee for throwing them out of the house when they turned abusive? 
 
You know the job is gonna suck when you are on a first name basis with several members of the local police department and the emergency room within a month of being hired.

(grammar edit)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
What do you see as lacking in the labour market ?


< Message edited by Vendaval -- 1/6/2009 7:25:53 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/6/2009 8:22:36 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		It's not you I attack, treasure. It's the vapid values of Public Relations: it is them that have ruled us, whether in the market place or in the public arena.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/7/2009 9:07:07 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

We've got one Popeye as it happens; by no means an academic achiever, but she has "it" (whatever "it" is) and we're working on her. No gripes with her so far - but lots of gripes with those ten years into a career who simply dont get a damn.

I also consciously took on a junior person to handle our accounts. She's in her early 20s and if she plays it right with the opportunity we're giving her, she'll be set for a decent career at a senior level when she eventually leaves us rather than the sort of job she'd otherwise have had as an accounts clerk for the rest of her life.

Some would say I'm stupid to take on young women like this - young women tend to get pregnant which causes a lot of disruption for a small business like ours. On the other hand I've come across so many young women with enormous potential who are held back by sexist approaches in the workplace on the part of male bosses. So I'm trying to do my bit to push these two.

I laid it out for them in the pre-xmas review. I told them, sooner or later they will have kids - and at that point all opportunity for them to get ahead will have gone because they wont have time for study and so on. Whatever point they have reached by then will be where they are at 40 and at 50 and at 60 - and if thats some dead end position on basic wage thats that. They have to do their studying now, push now and get ahead as far as possible now. Maybe thats sexist too - but its a fact I've observed in real life.

E


LadyE, I should have figured that, you're a pretty smart cookie!
That's how companies used to do things in this country decades ago and it worked out very well!
Being an "academic acheiver" is no garauntee of success anyway.
"On the job training" it was called.
Now most companies want some type of "degree" for whatever reason.
The problem with that is that many people with "degrees" have a sense of "entitlement", "why didn't I get that promotion instead of Suzy who works circles around me and never leaves early like I do but has no "degree?"
And now people go from job to job with no sense of loyalty.
Now there's a word that's becomming archaic, "Loyalty."
Unless someone is going to specialise in something (Medicine, Engineering, Accounting) I'm not real big on "degrees."
I worked in the insurance industry and I was assigned to a trainer for three months and the first thing she told me was to,  
"forget everything you learned in college, we'll be teaching you *our way.*"
That's what happens anyway in business, they teach you "their way."
Having a "degree" I found out later didn't get me the job in the first place.
The trainer later told me that the lady who hired me did so because I was in the U.S. Coast Guard and she figured I "wouldn't quit" like many with "degrees" ended up doing after a few weeks or months.
If I owned a business with employees it is *my* responsibility to train my people for the job.
Those "on the job training" programs are the best way for a company to get and keep employees who'll know what they are doing and who will have some loyalty to the company instead of viewing their job as just a "stepping stone" to another job.
I think you're doing it right LadyE, find someone who's hungry for an opportunity and wants to work hard to better themselves.



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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/7/2009 9:44:01 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's not you I attack, treasure. It's the vapid values of Public Relations: it is them that have ruled us, whether in the market place or in the public arena.


uhhhh ... huh?

Firm

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/8/2009 12:00:29 AM   
kiyari


Posts: 631
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

My thought is, whence I get my business idea moving, I am straight away going to need an asisstant,
purely as a ' hold this, help me shift this',  kind of thing, a safety person perhaps, as forges can be dangerous places.

My plan is to seek one of the misunderstood in youth,
as often it is those that are misunderstood are often failures of the educational system,
not saying they are thick, but it is that the teaching might not have been up to scratch for all except the majority.

I happen to believe from past experience,
that the misunderstood tends to be highly gifted in certain areas
and if someone gave them a chance, they could prove themselves,

I intend to give someone a chance,
they prove willing, I will teach them all I know in return for their help,

they will be taught a viable trade
and in time if they want to produce things themselves, they can
just as long as contributes to the overall business, a partner I have trained myself.


A most admirable ideal, and I am warmed to have read this from you.

Now, in this same vein, here is another 'category' you might consider ~ ex-cons.

Despite that they shall have (via incarceration) 'paid their debt to society',
nevertheless, 'have you ever been convicted' is generally asked somewheres in the employment process.

In "an employer's market", I expect that's an auto-reject, no further questions asked.

You might delve into particulars of their 'crime vs the state', before extending yourself in offering employ.
You might uncover a most attentive, loyal and valuable associate from that particular population.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/8/2009 12:09:04 AM   
kiyari


Posts: 631
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeptha

quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrj69
...This shows the biggest downfall of employees for me.
They do not want to work a full week and give their best all 40 hours.
Further they will not take the initiative and do what needs to be done without having to be told to go do it.

That would be me.
 
There's really very few things I'd want to do for 40 hours.

Money would not be such a factor; I'd have to really enjoy what I was doing if I were doing it that long.
'Cause that's a lot of life to give up, otherwise.

On the other hand, though, I do want to give good value for the time that I am present.

When I work, I want it to be a beneficial arrangement for all parties.

I appreciate that more employers are creating part time positions.


+1000%

Not all of us are cut out to be wage slaves, doing "whatever it takes" (I so despise that phrase).

Some among us rather do something which actually engages us, and when so engaged, shall excel just naturally.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/8/2009 3:27:02 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I have no problem with ex-cons, them being ex-con means they have served their pennance, so why not trust them ?

I would insist on honesty though, as I would for any other person, there is no saying an un -convicted person is any more honest than a convicted person, being an ex criminal does not automatically mean someone is untrustworthy to start with and there over time develop more of a trust for each other. A workshop safety person who is there as a guard for one's life, they have to be in a position of trust.

The other thing, it is my understanding that many who have educational difficulties end up in the prison system, them and people who have mental issues, aspergers being common.

The same applies with mental issues, but I would have to know the issue, and there I will research what I can about that issue and what to expect.

Perhaps it is that though I wish to start by own business as a source of income for myself and an other, maybe it is I want to be of service not only to the customer, but what work force come to be, for I do believe in the saying that a business's greatest asset is it's workforce.

I once worked in such a business, where the maxim was the workforce come first, the loyalty that existed was excellent, come difficult times the workforce of only ten people worked out of hours and sometimes without pay to get the job done and further the business to keep themselves in business and the business moving. We knew how good our employer was and we owed it to him to keep his ideas moving. It was a business with a very good give and take balance, I would like to emulate that.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 1/8/2009 3:28:13 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/8/2009 4:13:46 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Enough of the axed or young women will get pregnant crap.
The problem that I see with most companies is that they want younger(have to pay them less) people. They by pass the more experienced older(have to pay them more) people.
Then they bitch that they are having problems with putting out a good product. The younger people are taking more time off. The younger people have no work ethic.
Management causes most of their own problems. My biggest bitch is having new management come in who have never worked in the field and come in and make changes. What is wrong with having meetings with your people at least once a week and talk over how things are or are not progressing. If you look at a list of the best companies to work for you will see that is what they do. They listen to what their workers have to say.
Workers can make or break your company. So can bad managment.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/8/2009 6:15:04 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Enough of the axed or young women will get pregnant crap.
The problem that I see with most companies is that they want younger(have to pay them less) people. They by pass the more experienced older(have to pay them more) people.
Then they bitch that they are having problems with putting out a good product. The younger people are taking more time off. The younger people have no work ethic.
Management causes most of their own problems. My biggest bitch is having new management come in who have never worked in the field and come in and make changes. What is wrong with having meetings with your people at least once a week and talk over how things are or are not progressing. If you look at a list of the best companies to work for you will see that is what they do. They listen to what their workers have to say.
Workers can make or break your company. So can bad managment.


Dnomyar, in my business - those who have experience already either have their own sole proprietorship business or have no initerest in helping with a business.  It's not that they expect to get paid to much - even the kids expect That  - it's that they're my Compitition - they're NOT my potential employees.

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Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Calling all company owners - 1/8/2009 7:34:20 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		If your training someone new will they not have the potential to become your competitor. I could run this company and make huge improvement in it. Im not interested in becomming a competitor. Not everyone is out to get you.

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 60
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