Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Order and Liberty


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Order and Liberty Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/4/2009 1:05:48 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I'm sorry CL - but although I see that this is nature at work, I am very uncomfortable to yield to such crude mechanisms and motivated to resist them - after all, one day I shall be weak.

To abandon the aspirations of our godly natures in hopeless surrender to the animal renders us less than human, and the concious discarding thereof renders us less than animals.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/4/2009 1:59:12 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

And when the strong fail and falter, they will become weak and thus similarly will be interred, again by the strong.


Sorry to have to say,  I agree.  The new strong will inter the old strong.  That does kind of sum it up.  Touche.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/4/2009 3:25:08 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

And when the strong fail and falter, they will become weak and thus similarly will be interred, again by the strong.


Sorry to have to say,  I agree.  The new strong will inter the old strong.  That does kind of sum it up.  Touche.


You're too kind.

I should also add, I see a certain eloquence in the Beatitudes borne of this inevitability.  One might just as easily say "blessed are the weak, for they are us."


_____________________________



(in reply to Lorr47)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/4/2009 3:54:02 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		1) Order

2) A consensus where individuals treat each other as they like to be treated would breed liberty. Order being impossed by others eventually breeds violence.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/4/2009 4:09:46 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Beware of the tyranny of liberty - especially in America.

_____________________________



(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/4/2009 5:44:54 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Checks and balances dear Kittin,checks and balances.....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/4/2009 6:10:20 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Beware of the tyranny of liberty - especially in America.

Beware those who argue that freedom is slavery, from whatever nation or despondent corner of the Earth.

Individual liberty isn't the best defense against tyranny.  It's the only defense.  Such is the ineluctable lesson of history.


_____________________________



(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 4:36:17 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

1) Which of the two is most important in order to maximise a peaceful co-existence?


My belief is that liberty is most important. The reason being, non obstruction of liberty allows for people to reach their full capabilities, capable people, are purposeful people, and purpose leads to contentment.
 
As for order, I believe there is a natural order that would exist, if liberties were being exercised properly.
The problem with order, as it exist today, is that it involves ’one size fits all’ law, thereby, creating an environment of injustice; not to be confused with ’unjust’, which is akin to chaos.
 
Injustice, is the justice that comes about when something needs to be ‘protected’ because it hasn’t been allowed to reach its full potential.

quote:

2) What is the best means of order/organisation to maximise liberty?


Justice. Enabling people to reach, and exercise, their full potential, according to their capabilities, and willingness to achieve; in a responsible manner.
 
Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 1/5/2009 4:37:42 AM >

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 4:47:05 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Such is the ineluctable lesson of history.



It's all very well to make statements like these, but I know of very few people who draw 'lessons from history' in their everyday lives. In fact, my observations have led me to believe that the majority of people don't get anything much from history, beyond vague opinions disguised as facts. History repeats itself... ad infinitum.

_____________________________



(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 4:48:24 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

As for order, I believe there is a natural order that would exist, if liberties were being exercised properly.



Would you care to elaborate a little :-) ? What is a 'natural order'? How are 'liberties exercised properly', in your opinion?

_____________________________



(in reply to cpK69)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 5:42:21 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

What is a 'natural order'?


Natural order is the balance that comes about when people are placed in positions they are best suited for, in light of their abilities, according to a goal.

quote:

How are 'liberties exercised properly', in your opinion?


Liberties are exercised properly, when they have been exercised in a responsable manner.
 
Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 6:28:29 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The weak inherit the earth because they will be buried in it.....by the strong.



It is my understanding that only the living inherit.
 
Kim 

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 8:14:20 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

Natural order is the balance that comes about when people are placed in positions they are best suited for, in light of their abilities, according to a goal.



....from each according to their abilities? Ooooh you communist you.....

(in reply to cpK69)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 9:10:49 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

Natural order is the balance that comes about when people are placed in positions they are best suited for, in light of their abilities, according to a goal.

There is nothing "natural" about such an order. It is oppression, pure and simple.

_____________________________



(in reply to cpK69)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 10:06:04 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

....from each according to their abilities? Ooooh you communist you.....


Ouch, Phil; that hurt.
 
I’m a little too independent to be making such suggestions.
 
My proposal doesn’t stop at one’s abilities. It also includes providing the opportunity for reaching potential capabilities, depending on willingness.
 
Might I add; I no longer hold the saying 'all men are created equal' as truth.
 
Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 10:09:03 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Natural order is the balance that comes about when people are placed in positions they are best suited for, in light of their abilities, according to a goal.

There is nothing "natural" about such an order. It is oppression, pure and simple.


Not when the goal is of common interest to the parties, such as in a D/s relationship.
 
Kim 

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 10:29:33 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:


Not when the goal is of common interest to the parties, such as in a D/s relationship.

Society is not a D/s relationship (except for Socialists, Democrats, and similarly ill-advised folk).

_____________________________



(in reply to cpK69)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 10:31:45 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
I’ll suggest a different example; team work.
 
Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 10:42:57 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69


I’ll suggest a different example; team work.
 
Kim

Society's not a team either.

_____________________________



(in reply to cpK69)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Order and Liberty - 1/5/2009 10:46:19 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69


I’ll suggest a different example; team work.
 
Kim

Society's not a team either.


I believe, here in lies the problem.
 
Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Order and Liberty Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094